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Gingin

Strategic marriage for Catelyn

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In order to help Robb further, what would have been a good and possible match for her?

 

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A powerful Vale Lord to increase the pressure on Lysa and Robin to bring the Vale in on their side. Gerold Grafton is he's a widower perhaps.

Edited by The Jingo

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40 minutes ago, The Jingo said:

A powerful Vale Lord to increase the pressure on Lysa and Robin to bring the Vale in on their side. Gerold Grafton is he's a widower perhaps.

Bronze Yohn Royce. The books dont really say much about his wife. She might have died on childbirth, since he has numerous sons and daughters. 
If Catelyn married lord Royce it would really put allot of pressure on Lysa. But without Lysas consent I dont know whether Yohn and his supporters in the vale would decide to march with Robb.

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Thanks for your answers!

Yes, the problem here is Lysa. I wonder if arranging not only Catelyn’s marriage, but also other marriages between Riverlands ladies/Northern ladies (e.g. Wylla Manderly) and Vale lords (and viceversa) could have been useful to put more pressure on her.

Edited by Gingin

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37 minutes ago, Gingin said:

Thanks for your answers!

Yes, the problem here is Lysa. I wonder if arranging not only Catelyn’s marriage, but also other marriages between Riverlands ladies/Northern ladies (e.g. Wylla Manderly) and Vale lords (and viceversa) could have been useful to put more pressure on her.

If we don't focus on what was really happening behind stage with the Dornish conspiracy, then Oberyn would have been a great match, especially seeing as a Dornish independence movement would be quite probable (again disregarding the separate plans Doran had).  So yeah, if I was Robb I would propose a marriage between Oberyn and Cat. After that got shot down by Oberyn I would probably try someone in the Vale (probably Bronze Yohn) or Stannis (if he were to set aside Selyse of Cat there would be a win win situation, if onyl they would agree on the hole Northern independence thing).

So to sumarize Oberyn, Bronze Yohn or Stannis.

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Thanks for taking part in this discussion!

When it comes to a match with Oberyn Martell, I think that Dorne is too far to help Robb. The Lannisters via the Reach could easily punish the Dornish people for this alliance.

Edited by Gingin

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1 hour ago, Gingin said:

When it comes to a match with Oberyn Martell, I think that Dorne is too far to help Robb. The Lannisters via the Reach could easily punish the Dornish people for this alliance.

Well I think their purpose would be more to tie down a lot of Lannister-Tyrell forces, without actually engaging them, basically using the same fabian strategy that kept them alive from the Targs.

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39 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

basically using the same fabian strategy that kept them alive from the Targs.

Mmm... then if Oberyn+Catelyn had happened, Dorne could have also had an arranged marriage between Shireen and Quentyn/Trystane for more protection. :) 

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With the benefit of hindsight and if you could first prevent him marrying Fat Walda, Roose Bolton would have been a wise match for Catelyn. He'd get strange looks if he rejected her since she is of a Great House, the mother of a King, proven fertile, and still young enough to have more children. By marrying her Roose would via' marriage be the step-father to his own King. As well, his interests would be closely tied to the success of Houses Stark and Tully. No way he can defect at that point. 

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Thanks for your post!

5 hours ago, Sourjapes said:

Roose Bolton would have been a wise match for Catelyn.

This is interesting, even if messed up. But Roose could have had a real change of heart with someone like Catelyn at his side... who knows!

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7 hours ago, Gingin said:

This is interesting, even if messed up. But Roose could have had a real change of heart with someone like Catelyn at his side... who knows!

I suspect that if Roose had married Catelyn he would have got divorce same way that Ramsay Snow did. Or I would not have sold life insurance for Cat if she had married lord Bolton..

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On 2/1/2020 at 9:57 AM, Gingin said:

In order to help Robb further, what would have been a good and possible match for her?

 

The prospective husband will have no claim to riverun and Winterfell.  Cat also brings along one difficult daughter in Arya and a crippled son in Bran to the marriage.  How much wealth the Starks can bring to the husband is highly in question.  How good a match will be determined by the depth of Hoster's pocket book.  

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2 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

I suspect that if Roose had married Catelyn he would have got divorce same way that Ramsay Snow did. Or I would not have sold life insurance for Cat if she had married lord Bolton..

I don't think Roose would set aside Catelyn. As I said, she is proven fertile and can still have children and he needs an heir. Ramsay is useful, but he hates Ramsay and slowly but surely Ramsay is proving that he is more of a burden than a bane. I suppose it is possible that Roose could still accept some sort of deal to betray Robb and gain the North, but why do so? Catelyn is more valuable if House Tully still rules the Trident and Riverrun. By being married to the mother of the King in the North elder sister of the Lord of the Trident he has a lot of respect and influence. Roose is a practical and self serving man... so I think in the theoretical scenario that he was married to Catelyn that he'd see no great benefit in changing sides. Even if Robb can't hold the Riverlands he will still be of very high standing in Robb's court and his heir will be a half-brother to the King and kin of the royal family. It seems to me like a much safer way to power than the gamble he took with the Red Wedding. In that case his wife was just someone he picked for a dowry (and possibly because her mother was a fertile Crakehall). He needed the fake Arya because as the new Lord Paramount he had legal power but no traditional claim. "Arya" was obviously intended as insurance to make sure his successors had blood claims on the North, which would appease the Northern houses. Well, if not for Ramsay.

 

Of-course, maybe Roose would still betray Robb and then set aside Catelyn after the Blackwater. Anything is possible, but if Robb had lived long enough to get the chance to marry off his father, and Roose Bolton was already married to Walda Frey, I argue that such a match has some political benefits for Winterfell. 

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2 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

I suspect that if Roose had married Catelyn he would have got divorce same way that Ramsay Snow did. Or I would not have sold life insurance for Cat if she had married lord Bolton..

I believe he would have killed all the Stark children, but not Catelyn and their own children: trueborn heirs are important. But again, who knows! 

2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

The prospective husband will have no claim to riverun and Winterfell.

Well, it would have been a remote possibility, but still a possibility. Besides, the King in the North could have made some concessions in terms of lands and castles.

Cersei’s situation was similar to Catelyn’s, but Tywyn wanted her to marry again. Power, money and a strong military alliance are always needed.

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