Zorral Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, Kalbear said: It is remarkable to me to see how fast Biden's star has fallen It was remarkable to me that his star rose at all. Among the debacles in which impeachment turned out to be about him and his kid, the trad Dems' Iowa way of doing things and Bloomie spending millions every day -- there was no way he could remain where he never should have been at all. OTOH, perhaps his presence, particularly how he has faded about 2/3 every debate before the end, and his constant bloopers and then his downright stupidities provided a steady drip-drip-drop of let's do it again like we did last summer -- in which, actually, he did't do shyte except let his son (it's pathetic how he keeps invoking Obama like a cross against vamps -- against which the others could stand highlighted as more intelligent, energetic, connected to the world as it is (well, maybe not when it comes to Buttigieg), he was going to do a slow spiral of fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 36 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said: The Democratic primary made me curious, I guess. Fun to see so many of the same names around and interesting to see that while this place is still generally skeptical towards Sanders there doesn't seem to be any consensus on an alternative. I get that. I just didn't think you were serious in saying that you're getting out of this place lol. Quote If Bloomberg is trending up he'd better do it quickly. Super Tuesday is I believe a month away and he'll have to do very, very well to have a shot. I doubt he will- all I can see him accomplishing is possibly accumulating enough delegates to have a role to play in the event that no candidate secures a majority of pledged delegates. That, at least, doesn't seem wildly farfetched this year. All Bloomberg needs is for the moderates to start dropping. As others have said the moderate wing is larger and all the moderates have certain flaws. I still think it's unlikely that he's the nominee at the end of the day, but it's becoming more realistic with each passing day. 37 minutes ago, Kalbear said: It is remarkable to me to see how fast Biden's star has fallen. I know he's hoping for a big win in SC and on super tuesday, but that is looking less and less likely. Which is stupid, because really nothing has changed save Iowa voting and NH almost voting. In hindsight Biden was always a bit of a paper tiger, and it's also clear that Trump has hurt him, even if the reasons for it are unfair. Combine that with increased name recognition for the other candidates and it's easy to see why he's fallen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/10/biden-is-most-electable-candidate-just-not-right-here-or-right-now/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, Kalbear said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/10/biden-is-most-electable-candidate-just-not-right-here-or-right-now/ So Joe Biden is the Star Wars prequels of US politics. A potentially great story to be told that no one is ever going to actually see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin of Ice Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: All Bloomberg needs is for the moderates to start dropping. As others have said the moderate wing is larger and all the moderates have certain flaws. I still think it's unlikely that he's the nominee at the end of the day, but it's becoming more realistic with each passing day. The bolded section makes me almost want to consider doing some (very) small donations to Biden and Klobuchar just to keep Bloomberg from having a viable path. (And a larger donation to Warren for every time I give something to the moderates.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said: Seen a couple polls now that have Amy in third in NH. I’m not sure if that does anything for her going forward, but Idk how Biden and especially Warren can survive not coming in third in either vote. Biden can hold out hopes for SC, but I’m not seeing any path for Warren outside of another heart attack for Bernie. Did you mean "not coming in higher than third"? I thought Warren already was third in Iowa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Paladin of Ice said: The bolded section makes me almost want to consider doing some (very) small donations to Biden and Klobuchar just to keep Bloomberg from having a viable path. (And a larger donation to Warren for every time I give something to the moderates.) Why do you dislike him so much? Just curious because I don't have a ton of experience with him outside of the racist policing stuff. 4 minutes ago, karaddin said: Did you mean "not coming in higher than third"? I thought Warren already was third in Iowa Whoops. Sure, I can retroactively change what I meant to be that, but at the same time I don't see how IA helped her. I've seen her fall to fourth in a handful of NH polls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Whoops. Sure, I can retroactively change what I meant to be that, but at the same time I don't see how IA helped her. I've seen her fall to fourth in a handful of NH polls. I think finishing 3rd in both is good enough to stay in, but I agree that she didn't come out of Iowa looking like it was a strong performance. Just not a disastrous one like Bidens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Why do you dislike him so much? Just curious because I don't have a ton of experience with him outside of the racist policing stuff. I consider him to be basically a Republican who left the Republican party because the Republican Party went completely insane. Aside from his policing record, I don't care for his saying that raising taxes on the wealthy would be "unAmerican". Nor do I appreciate his unsubstantiated comments that single payer will cause the nation to go "broke". What will cause the the nation to go broke is our current healthcare system. I think he views the world as your typical Wall Street person. But, yeah, sure he is better than Trump. And so is Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 @OldGimletEye I think I feel similarly on him, with an added side dose of "if the only thing that can save you from a corrupt billionaire president is a less obviously corrupt but more successful billionaire then your democracy is already lost". It's yet another damaging precedent on top of all the ones from Trump. I also just can't see enough of the people that need to turn out actually turning out to vote for him, so he looks a poor choice to me on the electability criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, karaddin said: I think finishing 3rd in both is good enough to stay in, but I agree that she didn't come out of Iowa looking like it was a strong performance. Just not a disastrous one like Bidens. That's fair, but I think Warren's path is rapidly shrinking. Sanders is ahead of her in their lane and I see no reason for that to change and she's on track to not win any of the first four states before Super Tuesday. Not good. 18 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: I consider him to be basically a Republican who left the Republican party because the Republican Party went completely insane. Aside from his policing record, I don't care for his saying that raising taxes on the wealthy would be "unAmerican". Nor do I appreciate his unsubstantiated comments that single payer will cause the nation to go "broke". What will cause the the nation to go broke is our current healthcare system. Fair enough. Quote I think he views the world as your typical Wall Street person. But, yeah, sure he is better than Trump. And so is Satan. The Devil really gets a bad rap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Yeah, Bloomberg is going to be the guy to pull everyone out to vote and unite the party. Wtf. A billionaire who has skipped the debates, hasn't been challenged, and is just buying up crazy ad time. If he gave a shit about the country he'd have split that $350 million between Senate campaigns and the Dem nominee. If you're genuinely concerned that Sanders wing won't show up to vote in November, why on Earth would you want Bloomberg out there? He's probably the best way to keep the left at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freshwater Spartan Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I think you're underestimating how badly democrats want to win. If it looks like Bloomberg is the guy most will jump aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 https://www.thedailybeast.com/are-black-voters-quietly-turning-to-mike-bloomberg?ref=home Quote The headline here had asked, “Are Black Voters Quietly Turning to Mike Bloomberg?” The answer for many appears to be “yes,” and not so quietly. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/van-jones-democrats-fantasy-football_n_5e40e41ec5b6b7088703377b Quote Then, he issued a warning to Democrats. Do not take the Black vote for granted in this election,” Jones said. “And don’t pick somebody who’s not going to appeal to Black people because you’re really going to be hurting the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Guess I'll take this opportunity to explain why Bloomberg is my least preferred candidate. Part of it is electability - I could see a huge backlash from the left with him as the nominee. Much more so than Biden. But also it just bothers me that he gets grouped in with Biden/Buttigieg/Klobuchar as "moderates." Throughout the Clinton, Dubya, and Obama administrations, I counted myself as solidly to the left of both Clintons, and even Obama. And ya know what? So are those three. It's fairly preposterous that the emergent left now gets to paint everyone that does not put forth a socialist agenda as "moderate." No, you don't get to redefine the party like that, fuck off. Anyway, Bloomberg actually IS to the right of the Clintons and Obama when it comes to economic issues. Not by much when it comes to Bill, but still. And Robert Rubin and Larry Summers' tenures during Clinton's administration played starring roles in the causes of the GFC. I am all for pushing the party left in general - just concerned about it blowing up in our faces, so that makes me a "moderate" establishment hack. Fine, but Bloomberg is a perpetuation of economic policy that the Democratic party needs to abandon - it's long long overdue. So, he'd just be a depressing as hell backlash to the younger generations that want to push further left. And that is just the worst. And worse than the worst - that's what Republicans do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Josh Marshall on Quinnipiac's latest poll showing that Gallup's spike in approval rating for Trump is most certainly an outlier. Quote Two important new polls have come out this afternoon. They’re clarifying on a number of grounds. The first is that President Trump’s rise in the polls is at best overstated. Quinnipiac puts him at 43% approval, on the high side for that poll but the same as their previous three polls back into December. Monmouth has him at 44%. Their previous three polls had him at 43%. Just moments ago Yougov released a new batch of polls which put Trump at 41%, basically where he’s been since forever. (I put more stock in Quinnipiac and Monmouth but it’s another important data point.) Take this all together and they suggest Trump is in a relatively strong position based on where he’s been over the last three years. But there’s little evidence here of some game-changing move. Certainly nothing like the 49% Gallup found last week, which remains a distant outlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/10/opinion/trump-budget-2020.html? Again, Krugman speaks. Quote .... But why has Trump turned out to be such a conventional Republican? My sense is that he doesn’t really care about policy, aside from protectionism, which I’ll get to in a minute. And he certainly doesn’t feel any empathy for less fortunate Americans, or actually anyone. So he was happy to make what amounts to an implicit deal with the Republican establishment: You get to implement your usual policy agenda, and I get a free pass on my corruption and abuse of power. The one place where Trump has deviated from conservative orthodoxy is his trade war.... .... The question now is whether Trump will pay any price for betraying all his promises. Democrats took the House in 2018 largely because of the popular backlash against his attempt to destroy Obamacare. But there’s a real danger that Democrats will blow the election by making it a referendum on ambitious ideas like so-called Medicare for all that are unlikely to become reality, rather than on Trump’s ongoing efforts to destroy programs Americans love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 @DMC - Yeah I definitely have similar feelings to you on Bloomberg as well. If Biden is what it takes to beat Trump I'd be for Biden, my biggest reservation with him is just that his aging may be a stumbling block to youth vote (despite not being so for Sanders) and his performance on both the campaign trail and in office is fading with that aging. Someone similar to Biden but younger and charismatic could definitely be what's needed, but that person isn't in the race. And Pete definitely isn't what I mean by that. But Bloomberg? That's really scraping the barrel for being better than Trump and just reinforces the Oligarchy angle. He's personally less awful than Trump but I still think quite damaging to democracy, and also much more of a Republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 It isn't just his economic policies or stop and frisk, he also had some lawsuit against him for pregnancy discrimination. Wouldnt surprise me if he discriminated against women who took time off to raise families. I dont think he is sufficiently 'woke' enough for my tastes So I hope Bloomberg isn't the answer. I do think he is ok to good on climate change and maybe some other issues. I'd hold my nose and vote for him, all the while hoping he only gets 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Quote And this clubbiness has human costs. Tax evasion, to pick just one crime concentrated among the wealthy, already siphons up to 10,000 times more money out of the U.S. economy every year than bank robberies. In 2017, researchers estimated that fraud by America’s largest corporations cost Americans up to $360 billion annually between 1996 and 2004. That’s roughly two decades’ worth of street crime every single year. As the links between corporations and regulators become increasingly incestuous, the future will bring more crude-soaked coastlines, price-gouging corporate behemoths and Madoff-style Ponzi schemes. More hurdles to suing companies for poisoning their customers or letting bosses harass their employees. And more uniquely American catastrophes like the opioid crisis and the price of insulin. Perhaps the greatest myth about white-collar crime is that Americans struggle to understand it—as if chemical companies toxifying rivers or insurance executives gouging their customers fail to stimulate our moral intuitions. In fact, surveys consistently show that the vast majority of the population considers white-collar crime more harmful than street crime and powerful offenders more odious than common criminals. Those intuitions are correct: An entrenched, unfettered class of superpredators is wreaking havoc on American society. And in the process, they've broken the only systems capable of stopping them. AMERICAN CANNIBALS: The Golden Age Of White Collar Crime https://www.huffpost.com/highline/article/white-collar-crime/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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