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Are members of night´s watch allowed short visits.

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For example funeral or wedding , is reliable member allowed for very short visit to his family for this causes.

What was exact reason Benjen Stark visited Winterfell ?

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As we see no other evidence of this, I'm inclined to call it nepotism towards the Starks. Benjen got those perks because he was the brother of the Warden of the North. Jon avoided punishment for otherwise damning transgressions and was put on the fast track to leading because he was the son of Ned Stark. If you have the Stark name, or even Stark blood, it opens doors for you in the Night's Watch.

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19 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

As we see no other evidence of this, I'm inclined to call it nepotism towards the Starks. Benjen got those perks because he was the brother of the Warden of the North. Jon avoided punishment for otherwise damning transgressions and was put on the fast track to leading because he was the son of Ned Stark. If you have the Stark name, or even Stark blood, it opens doors for you in the Night's Watch.

If you wanna go down that road, then perhaps you should bring up Waymar Royce who was given command of a ranging even though he had been on the Wall for only 6 months. Jeor Mormont said he allowed it because he didn't wish to offend Bronze Yohn.

This isn't just about the Starks, this is about the sons of powerful lords because these lords are in position to help the Night's Watch.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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14 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

As we see no other evidence of this, I'm inclined to call it nepotism towards the Starks. Benjen got those perks because he was the brother of the Warden of the North. Jon avoided punishment for otherwise damning transgressions and was put on the fast track to leading because he was the son of Ned Stark. If you have the Stark name, or even Stark blood, it opens doors for you in the Night's Watch.

That makes sense but eventually I think it all depends on Lord commander , if he allows it you can I see no reason related to night watch for Benjen visiting winterfell during Roberts visit .Of course this is not likely to happen with rapers , killers and other not honorable man who got there .

Jon snow as commander did order(allow) Samwell ,Dareon and Aemon to go for Oldtown for specific reasons. 

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18 minutes ago, Putin said:

That makes sense but eventually I think it all depends on Lord commander , if he allows it you can I see no reason related to night watch for Benjen visiting winterfell during Roberts visit .Of course this is not likely to happen with rapers , killers and other not honorable man who got there .

Jon snow as commander did order(allow) Samwell ,Dareon and Aemon to go for Oldtown for specific reasons. 

Benjen was there to represent the NW before the king, and make his case for more men and support. Prior to that, he visited Winterfell several times. As brother to the sitting lord, he was the best to discuss matters of importance: wildling activities, repopulating the Gift, men, materials, supplies . . .

Hard to say whether commoners or other lordly types were given leave for funerals and such. Only the most trusted are (or should be, Dareon) allowed to re-enter the kingdom -- and even then it's only for official business like recruitment or special missions (Yoren, Thorne with the dead hand. Sam). 

So all in all, I think the rules are pretty tight. You can leave the Wall on official business, and if it happens to take you back to your family home, so be it. But this would only be extended to trusted brothers, not the criminal types, which make up most of the men.

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3 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

If you wanna go down that road, then perhaps you should bring up Waymar Royce who was given command of a ranging even though he had been on the Wall for only 6 months. Jeor Mormont said he allowed it because he didn't wish to offend Bronze Yohn.

This isn't just about the Starks, this is about the sons of powerful lords because these lords are in position to help the Night's Watch.

The ruling class always gets preferential treatment. You even saw that to an extent with Sam. The Starks seem to get above and beyond that. To the OP can you cite an example of anyone else getting family visits? 

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4 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

If you wanna go down that road, then perhaps you should bring up Waymar Royce who was given command of a ranging even though he had been on the Wall for only 6 months. Jeor Mormont said he allowed it because he didn't wish to offend Bronze Yohn.

This isn't just about the Starks, this is about the sons of powerful lords because these lords are in position to help the Night's Watch.

So the story began with the negative consequences of extending privilege to the high born Weymar Royce.  And it ended with the removal of Jon Snow.  A more senior man should have led that ranging.  The job of lord commander should have gone to a more senior man.  Weymar got wighted and clues point to Jon coming back as a wight.

I see no harm in families visiting but the wall is so far away.  Only those who can afford to make the trip will visit.  The watch is also in no position to entertain and feed guests.  Visits will be allowed, I would think, but donations are strongly encouraged.  It is perhaps a matter of etiquette for visitors to bring something useful to the watch.  Guest rights discourage the brothers from turning away visitors.  One night's stay is courtesy.

Edited by Centurion Piso

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46 minutes ago, Centurion Piso said:

So the story began with the negative consequences of extending privilege to the high born Weymar Royce.  And it ended with the removal of Jon Snow.  A more senior man should have led that ranging.  The job of lord commander should have gone to a more senior man.  Weymar got wighted and clues point to Jon coming back as a wight.

Enlighten me, please. Where are these clues? And by “where” I mean where in the books. 

46 minutes ago, Centurion Piso said:

I see no harm in families visiting but the wall is so far away.  Only those who can afford to make the trip will visit.  The watch is also in no position to entertain and feed guests.  Visits will be allowed, I would think, but donations are strongly encouraged.  It is perhaps a matter of etiquette for visitors to bring something useful to the watch.  Guest rights discourage the brothers from turning away visitors.  One night's stay is courtesy.

And again you’re just making up stuff, to the point of writing the etiquette book for the NW. 

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Enlighten me, please. Where are these clues? And by “where” I mean where in the books. 

And again you’re just making up stuff, to the point of writing the etiquette book for the NW. 

Right. Tyrion visits & doesn't bring any donation that I recall. 

As far as NW making visits to family I would imagine it's like @John Suburbs said. Benjen got to visit because he was a trusted member & on NW business. I would think anyone who volunteered to join would be allowed to go to their family home if business brought them there. Possibly the Starks get to go a little more often because WF is close & the watch would have more business with them than other houses, especially southron houses. 

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5 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Right. Tyrion visits & doesn't bring any donation that I recall. 

He doesn’t. And is welcome to stay as long as he wants. 

5 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

As far as NW making visits to family I would imagine it's like @John Suburbs said. Benjen got to visit because he was a trusted member & on NW business. I would think anyone who volunteered to join would be allowed to go to their family home if business brought them there. Possibly the Starks get to go a little more often because WF is close & the watch would have more business with them than other houses, especially southron houses. 

Yeah, possibly. But I don’t think there’s any reason to think it would be much different if, say, Big Liddle, or if an Umber or Flint were in the NW, that they wouldn’t be allowed to visit on occasion. 

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

He doesn’t. And is welcome to stay as long as he wants. 

Yeah, possibly. But I don’t think there’s any reason to think it would be much different if, say, Big Liddle, or if an Umber or Flint were in the NW, that they wouldn’t be allowed to visit on occasion. 

Oh I agree. They are all northern houses so there would likely be business to be had with them as well. More often than with the south. 

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I definitely think it would be up to the Lord Commander, as far as who and where and for what reasons. There definitely is some movement by certain members to other parts of the Seven Kingdoms but no mention or probability of any kind of tradition of leave. Although, I do believe the Lord Commander has the power to grant it if he wants. Other examples of officially sanctioned visits would include LC Qorglye visiting Winterfell with Mance and presumably other members of a retinue, as well as members of the Watch being present at the tournament at Harrenhal. Jon also reflects on the possibility of marrying Val and adopting Monster and taking Gilly into his service allowing Sam to be able to visit them at Winterfell, when he contemplates Stannis’ offer. 

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2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Enlighten me, please. Where are these clues? And by “where” I mean where in the books. 

It's all there on page nowhere. 

When Tyrion asked to send Jon back with him to Winterfell so that he can visit his brothers, Jeor Mormont said no because of Jon's youth, because he hadn't been on the Wall long enough, because it would have been difficult for him to have to leave his family again.

The NW is in tatters, if the Lord Commander can leverage having the son or the kin of a powerful lord under his command, then why not allow them to go home every now and again? Benjen volunteered to go to the Watch as far as we know. Waymar Royce joined because he was a 3rd son. I imagine any man who joined the Watch voluntarily would be allowed to go and visit their kin. It just takes less time to get to Winterfell than it does to get to Blackcrown or Seagard and Runestone.

If Waymar Royce hadn't gone beyond the Wall to get killed then zombified, he might have been really useful to reach out to his father to supply the NW with food when Jon was trying to figure out where he could turn to feed everyone.

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The Night’s Watch conducts business in the North and even in Oldtown (Dareon, Sam) and King’s Landing  (Yoren, Thorne).    
 

Even Mance Rayder traveled on official business when he was younger. 
 

Quote

"Very good! Yes, that was the first time. You were just a boy, and I was all in black, one of a dozen riding escort to old Lord Commander Qorgyle when he came down to see your father at Winterfell. I was walking the wall around the yard when I came on you and your brother Robb. It had snowed the night before, and the two of you had built a great mountain above the gate and were waiting for someone likely to pass underneath."

ASOS - Jon I

 

I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to envision a Brother visiting their old stomping grounds. Like it’s  been mentioned above the specifics would depend on the political expediency and advantage in the case of noble Brothers, and the trustworthiness  and general reliability  in the case of everyone. 
 

I don’t see any evidence of any lone getting “leave” just to go visiting, it’s more  something that happens when the opportunity and circumstances allow, and the justification of the trip and reliability of the travelers can be counted on. 

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20 hours ago, Putin said:

For example funeral or wedding , is reliable member allowed for very short visit to his family for this causes.

Unlikely, the point is that you don't have nothing left south anymore. If you get leave anyime your cousin dies or your sister whelps, the point is pretty much moot.

I very much doubt that people like Black Harren's brother got to leave the watch for a relative demise. During the days of the 100 Kingdoms... who would watch the wall then?? 

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On 2/8/2020 at 7:11 PM, kissdbyfire said:

He doesn’t. And is welcome to stay as long as he wants. 

And he got to eat crabs too.

But in all honesty, they know Tyrion is connected to powerful people. He is brother to the queen and on good terms with the king. They entertain him, but they ask for something in return that is more valuable than anything he could bring with him.

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On 2/8/2020 at 3:37 PM, Centurion Piso said:

So the story began with the negative consequences of extending privilege to the high born Weymar Royce.  And it ended with the removal of Jon Snow.  A more senior man should have led that ranging.  The job of lord commander should have gone to a more senior man.  Weymar got wighted and clues point to Jon coming back as a wight.

Man I know Royce was kind of an asshole but re-read that chapter. He's pretty much spot on with every points he makes, but he's just condescending af when he does it. And even though Mormont complains that Royce was green:

“ The Royce boy was green as summer grass, yet he insisted on the honor of his own command, saying it was his due as a knight. I did not wish to offend his lord father, so I yielded. I sent him out with two men I deemed as good as any in the Watch. More fool I.”

He spends the next five sentences bitching about the quality of recruits and ironically undermining his own statement about Royce. 

“In two years I will be seventy. Too old and too weary for the burden I bear, yet if I set it down, who will pick it up? Alliser Thorne? Bowen Marsh? I would have to be as blind as Maester Aemon not to see what they are. The Night’s Watch has become an army of sullen boys and tired old men. Apart from the men at my table tonight, I have perhaps twenty who can read, and even fewer who can think, or plan, or lead.”

Making the assumption Royce can read, he also shows himself to be one who can think, plan, and lead all in the chapter. On the job training is basically the only thing left for Royce to do, as it doesn't seem that CB teaches "Ranging 101." All the applicable skills that need to be learned to become a ranger (riding, fighting, scouting, hunting et al) Royce has already learned and been performing at a passable level for years. This deployment is basically a career sergeant bitching about a newly minted lieutenant he has to report too.

Now we as readers get to use hindsight to make 20/20 judgments on him but the odds of running into 8000 year old monsters instead of the band of wildlings (or something similar) is pretty slim. Had he gone back without any proof of their whereabouts or deaths, he and the scouts would have been reprimanded by Mormont and / or sent back out to find them again. Mormont picked a promising candidate for a seemingly mundane mission as a way of grooming him for command. Kinda like Renly's death by shadow baby, no one predicted a near impossibility happening and that's why the ranging was a failure. 

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57 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Man I know Royce was kind of an asshole but re-read that chapter. He's pretty much spot on with every points he makes, but he's just condescending af when he does it. And even though Mormont complains that Royce was green:

“ The Royce boy was green as summer grass, yet he insisted on the honor of his own command, saying it was his due as a knight. I did not wish to offend his lord father, so I yielded. I sent him out with two men I deemed as good as any in the Watch. More fool I.”

He spends the next five sentences bitching about the quality of recruits and ironically undermining his own statement about Royce. 

“In two years I will be seventy. Too old and too weary for the burden I bear, yet if I set it down, who will pick it up? Alliser Thorne? Bowen Marsh? I would have to be as blind as Maester Aemon not to see what they are. The Night’s Watch has become an army of sullen boys and tired old men. Apart from the men at my table tonight, I have perhaps twenty who can read, and even fewer who can think, or plan, or lead.”

Making the assumption Royce can read, he also shows himself to be one who can think, plan, and lead all in the chapter. On the job training is basically the only thing left for Royce to do, as it doesn't seem that CB teaches "Ranging 101." All the applicable skills that need to be learned to become a ranger (riding, fighting, scouting, hunting et al) Royce has already learned and been performing at a passable level for years. This deployment is basically a career sergeant bitching about a newly minted lieutenant he has to report too.

Now we as readers get to use hindsight to make 20/20 judgments on him but the odds of running into 8000 year old monsters instead of the band of wildlings (or something similar) is pretty slim. Had he gone back without any proof of their whereabouts or deaths, he and the scouts would have been reprimanded by Mormont and / or sent back out to find them again. Mormont picked a promising candidate for a seemingly mundane mission as a way of grooming him for command. Kinda like Renly's death by shadow baby, no one predicted a near impossibility happening and that's why the ranging was a failure. 

This is probably the best and most equitable summary of Waymar Royce’s Last Command that I’ve ever read. Thank you. I’ve often felt that readers in general take a dim view of WR for his arrogance, even if they grudgingly give him props for his bravery.  
 

People sitting in a modern society that enjoys a representative government, a fabulously high standard of living, and effectively 100% literacy rate, forget that in the world of ASoIaF and the medieval societies on which it is modeled, the nobility were almost a different breed of person. Not genetically to be sure (Targaryens aside) and not with any inherently higher raw potential for intelligence or capacity for learning, but with vastly superior opportunities for education and advantages in the quality of available food, shelter, and equipment.   The value to any military organization of someone with a classical education, formal training at arms, vocational training in command, and top quality kit  would have been inestimable. 
 

Waymar’s arrogance was untempered by any actual command experience north of the wall or true shared hardships with his men. 

It is unfortunate that he never got the chance to mature into a really great commander.  
 

But yeah TLDR: Nobles in ASoIaF are arrogant and that arrogance is somewhat justified in its milieu. The arrogance itself has no value that I can think of.  

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On 2/8/2020 at 11:14 AM, Putin said:

For example funeral or wedding , is reliable member allowed for very short visit to his family for this causes.

Generally, no.

Quote

"The kingsroad can be perilous this far north," the Lord Commander told him as they drank.

"I have Jyck and Morrec," Tyrion said, "and Yoren is riding south again."

"Yoren is only one man. The Watch shall escort you as far as Winterfell," Mormont announced in a tone that brooked no argument. "Three men should be sufficient."

"If you insist, my lord," Tyrion said. "You might send young Snow. He would be glad for a chance to see his brothers."

Mormont frowned through his thick grey beard. "Snow? Oh, the Stark bastard. I think not. The young ones need to forget the lives they left behind them, the brothers and mothers and all that. A visit home would only stir up feelings best left alone. I know these things. My own blood kin . . . my sister Maege rules BearIsland now, since my son's dishonor. I have nieces I have never seen." He took a swallow. "Besides, Jon Snow is only a boy. You shall have three strong swords, to keep you safe."

 

On 2/8/2020 at 11:14 AM, Putin said:

What was exact reason Benjen Stark visited Winterfell ?

Idk. Starks can do whatever they want I guess. Lol. Like they said above, extenuating circumstance, brother of Warden getd leeway 

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