US Politics - Primary Numbers

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

38 minutes ago, JEORDHl said:

I thought he was done when this shit surfaced well over a year ago, so... [spreads hands]

I got the cynicism, but the story was really lost in the background for a long time. Now it’s pretty front and center once you get past all of Trump’s nonsense. And since there’s no love lost for him from Democrats, if I were in the House I would start bring up his name along with Nassar’s, even if that’s dirty politics. Because f*** that guy.

[Fragile Bird]

2 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

There's a lot more on that thread.  Bloomberg is exactly the same kind of racist, misogynistic asshole authoritarian that Trump is.  Do not fool yourself otherwise.

I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

He also said, 30 years before Tyrion ever did, he’d like to die with a woman sitting on his face. (Question - do you think Trump ever participated in oral sex, or is he too much of a germaphobe? Getting a blow job, sure, but not giving, just receiving, when it comes to sex.)

He made his billions in the financial services industry, a notoriously sexist, racist, homophobic industry, and he was one of the boys. He worked at Salomon Brothers, have you ever read Michael Lewis’s book, Liar’s Poker, about working there? The first time Bloomberg ran for mayor in 2002 all his past history was brought out and the pundits said he’d never win.

From everything I’ve read he really cleaned up his act as the years went by. I see a Politico story says that 17 lawsuits have been filed against his company...over 30 years. He was involved in early years, other management in later years.

More telling is the fact his companies give 26 weeks of paid family leave.

But I don’t see stories about sex scandals or paying off prostitutes. He doesn’t seem to have been a friend of Epstein. He was married from 1975 to 1993 and has been in a long term relationship since 2000.

Contrast that to Trump. Trump made his grabbing pussy comment in 2005, and was paying off Stormy Daniels just before the election.

If America can cope with that shit, America can cope with Bloomberg. 
 

Before you freak out, Elizabeth Warren was my candidate of choice. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

He also said, 30 years before Tyrion ever did, he’d like to die with a woman sitting on his face. (Question - do you think Trump ever participated in oral sex, or is he too much of a germaphobe? Getting a blow job, sure, but not giving, just receiving, when it comes to sex.)

Why would you create this visual. You’re sick, BIRD!

And the answer is probably not. If we are to believe Stormy, Trump’s the type to just lay back and let the woman do the work.

[Fragile Bird]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Why would you create this visual. You’re sick, BIRD!

And the answer is probably not. If we are to believe Stormy, Trump’s the type to just lay back and let the woman do the work.

I did worry about the massive amounts of brain bleach that would be required as I typed those words.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

35 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

He also said, 30 years before Tyrion ever did, he’d like to die with a woman sitting on his face. (Question - do you think Trump ever participated in oral sex, or is he too much of a germaphobe? Getting a blow job, sure, but not giving, just receiving, when it comes to sex.)

He made his billions in the financial services industry, a notoriously sexist, racist, homophobic industry, and he was one of the boys. He worked at Salomon Brothers, have you ever read Michael Lewis’s book, Liar’s Poker, about working there? The first time Bloomberg ran for mayor in 2002 all his past history was brought out and the pundits said he’d never win.

From everything I’ve read he really cleaned up his act as the years went by. I see a Politico story says that 17 lawsuits have been filed against his company...over 30 years. He was involved in early years, other management in later years.

More telling is the fact his companies give 26 weeks of paid family leave.

But I don’t see stories about sex scandals or paying off prostitutes. He doesn’t seem to have been a friend of Epstein. He was married from 1975 to 1993 and has been in a long term relationship since 2000.

Contrast that to Trump. Trump made his grabbing pussy comment in 2005, and was paying off Stormy Daniels just before the election.

If America can cope with that shit, America can cope with Bloomberg. 
 

Before you freak out, Elizabeth Warren was my candidate of choice. 

Yeah.  I'm with you Bird.  Honestly, St. Bill still gets a pass for stuff.  So either you believe people have capacity for change or you don't.  I'm willing to believe that both Sanders and Bloomberg have the capacity for change.  They are OLD and have LONG histories where they live their lives and did things, some of which weren't good things.  And you know, that's true of all of us.  But honestly, as previously stated, I would vote for a potted succulent for president at this point rather than vote for Trump.  I can find something truly hateable about EACH of the current viable Democratic candidates. But they all have one crowning virtue, and that's enough for me.  They aren't Trump.

(Currently team Amy.  Not sure on second choice.  I'm not a big Mayor Pete fan.  I have complete disdain for Biden.  I THINK my ranked choice currently is Amy, Mike, Bernie, Pete, but talk to me again tomorrow).

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

22 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I did worry about the massive amounts of brain bleach that would be required as I typed those words.

The cigarette suggests dirty thoughts were racing through your now bleached brain.  

[Fragile Bird]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The cigarette suggests dirty thoughts were racing through your now bleached brain.  

Hey. Jimmy Carter famously said he had looked on a lot of women with lust and committed adultery in his heart. People do have all kinds of thoughts in their heads.

Not about Trump, though.  

[Centrist Simon Steele]

20 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Yeah.  I'm with you Bird.  Honestly, St. Bill still gets a pass for stuff.  So either you believe people have capacity for change or you don't.  I'm willing to believe that both Sanders and Bloomberg have the capacity for change.  They are OLD and have LONG histories where they live their lives and did things, some of which weren't good things.  And you know, that's true of all of us.  But honestly, as previously stated, I would vote for a potted succulent for president at this point rather than vote for Trump.  I can find something truly hateable about EACH of the current viable Democratic candidates. But they all have one crowning virtue, and that's enough for me.  They aren't Trump.

(Currently team Amy.  Not sure on second choice.  I'm not a big Mayor Pete fan.  I have complete disdain for Biden.  I THINK my ranked choice currently is Amy, Mike, Bernie, Pete, but talk to me again tomorrow).

I get the Bloomberg issues, but what in the world has Sanders done that wasn't so good (or even comparable) in this discussion? Bernie absolutely has a long history, and it's consistently the antithesis of Trump and Bloomberg.

[Raja]

I skew fairly left so for me Warren, Bernie and to a lesser extent Amy are miles ahead of people like Pete & Bloomberg who are both hot garbage.

To me, Bloomberg's stop and frisk policy and the stuff he's come out with recently to try to defend that goes way beyond 'oh shucks people do bad things get over it' - it's nauseating reading that, if I'm being honest.

 

[Week]

3 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

I get the Bloomberg issues, but what in the world has Sanders done that wasn't so good (or even comparable) in this discussion? Bernie absolutely has a long history, and it's consistently the antithesis of Trump and Bloomberg.

What has Warren done that wasn't so good in this discussion? Warren has a long history and it's consistently the antithesis of Trump and Bloomberg.

...waiting for the "long history" dig against someone who has been involved in politics for 25+ years too. (As an antithesis to Biden's bankruptcy bill as a crony to Finance special interests)

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Hey. Jimmy Carter famously said he had looked on a lot of women with lust and committed adultery in his heart. People do have all kinds of thoughts in their heads.

Not about Trump, though.  

That just suggests he was overly harsh on himself. Besides life is a lot more fun when you run with the 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

3 minutes ago, Week said:

What has Warren done that wasn't so good in this discussion? Warren has a long history and it's consistently the antithesis of Trump and Bloomberg.

...waiting for the "long history" dig against someone who has been involved in politics for 25+ years too. (As an antithesis to Biden's bankruptcy bill as a crony to Finance special interests)

What does Warren have to do with the post I responded to? The poster suggested that Sanders and Bloomberg had both done bad things and were old and had long histories. So why are you bringing up Warren? The point was that whatever you want to say about Sanders, he doesn't have a history of racist misogyny. Some people assume he does, I guess, but the worst you can say about him is that he might have a race blind spot (though that's debatable). 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

1 minute ago, Simon Steele said:

What does Warren have to do with the post I responded to? The poster suggested that Sanders and Bloomberg had both done bad things and were old and had long histories. So why are you bringing up Warren? The point was that whatever you want to say about Sanders, he doesn't have a history of racist misogyny. Some people assume he does, I guess, but the worst you can say about him is that he might have a race blind spot (though that's debatable). 

Look, he has evolved as best I can tell, over the past 40 years on the following topics:  race, LGBTQ issues, women's issues, immigration, education, etc.  And you know what, that's fine.  I'm NOT a Sanders true believer (and I know you are, and that's fine).  I'll vote for him only if I have to.  But he's certainly better than the alternative.  And I'm not going to cancel someone for things they did or said when I was in kindergarten or before I was born (actually, I'm loath to cancel people period, because I think it's a stupid and shallow way to view the human experience and people, but that's a separate question).*

 

*Mind you, the GOP is cancelled 

[Fragile Bird]

8 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

I get the Bloomberg issues, but what in the world has Sanders done that wasn't so good (or even comparable) in this discussion? Bernie absolutely has a long history, and it's consistently the antithesis of Trump and Bloomberg.

The charge of being sexist has always followed him. His supporters always answer back by saying "look at the great things he will do for women, he's not sexist, he's anti-sexist!" But a politician can support good things while being a sexist old fart as well. I have worked for numerous men in my life who supported the rights of women while treating the women they worked with as lesser creatures with fewer rights and privileges than men.

In his life he's said a lot of nice things about Cuba and the Soviet way of doing things, which always seems unforgivable to chunks of American society.

There's his whole Lone Ranger image , something Bernie supporters always deny as well. But he was an independent because he wasn't going to be run by the Democrats, and while he filed as a Democratic candidate for President this time (not the last time), the next week he filed for re-election as senator as an independent. Trump is such an asshole he has managed to instill fear in the Republican party and has everyone in line. Will President Sanders instill fear in Democrats and whip their asses if they don't obey?

But no question he doesn't have the same kind of baggage others do. 

 

[Paladin of Ice]

28 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

I get the Bloomberg issues, but what in the world has Sanders done that wasn't so good (or even comparable) in this discussion? Bernie absolutely has a long history, and it's consistently the antithesis of Trump and Bloomberg.

... you do realize that Zabz is a center right Never Trumper? According to her preferences and stances Bernie should be the last person she’d ever want to pick. Anyone who is a Bernie supporter should be dancing in the streets that she and others like her are willing to consider voting for him.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

9 minutes ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

Look, he has evolved as best I can tell, over the past 40 years on the following topics:  race, LGBTQ issues, women's issues, immigration, education, etc.  And you know what, that's fine.  I'm NOT a Sanders true believer (and I know you are, and that's fine).  I'll vote for him only if I have to.  But he's certainly better than the alternative.  And I'm not going to cancel someone for things they did or said when I was in kindergarten or before I was born (actually, I'm loath to cancel people period, because I think it's a stupid and shallow way to view the human experience and people, but that's a separate question).*

 

*Mind you, the GOP is cancelled 

I don't mean to be pushy, my apologies. We can agree on the GOP.

[Fragile Bird]

Lol, speaking of Stormy Daniels...

Michael Avenatti found guilty of extortion on all counts, for trying to shake down Nike for $25M. In New York.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

12 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

The charge of being sexist has always followed him. His supporters always answer back by saying "look at the great things he will do for women, he's not sexist, he's anti-sexist!" But a politician can support good things while being a sexist old fart as well. I have worked for numerous men in my life who supported the rights of women while treating the women they worked with as lesser creatures with fewer rights and privileges than men.

In his life he's said a lot of nice things about Cuba and the Soviet way of doing things, which always seems unforgivable to chunks of American society.

There's his whole Lone Ranger image , something Bernie supporters always deny as well. But he was an independent because he wasn't going to be run by the Democrats, and while he filed as a Democratic candidate for President this time (not the last time), the next week he filed for re-election as senator as an independent. Trump is such an asshole he has managed to instill fear in the Republican party and has everyone in line. Will President Sanders instill fear in Democrats and whip their asses if they don't obey?

But no question he doesn't have the same kind of baggage others do. 

 

I guess I've only heard that charge from the Clinton camp, but I've never seen any evidence of it, and certainly not to the point of being uttered in the same breath as some of the others. 

6 minutes ago, Paladin of Ice said:

... you do realize that Zabz is a center right Never Trumper? According to her preferences and stances Bernie should be the last person she’d ever want to pick. Anyone who is a Bernie supporter should be dancing in the streets that she and others like her are willing to consider voting for him.

That has nothing to do with it. I don't get the comparison. This isn't a "oh we like might vote for the same dude? Cool." If the point is that he's a socialist for someone center right and to them, that's as bed as misogyny and racism, I guess I get it. But I'm truly curious about specifics on Bernie's issue with women and people of color.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Bernie gets elected. He's my candidate this time, and he's the closest to my values, but I have a better chance of becoming one of the oligarchs than we do of actually overthrowing them. 

[Fragile Bird]

7 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

I guess I've only heard that charge from the Clinton camp, but I've never seen any evidence of it, and certainly not to the point of being uttered in the same breath as some of the others. 

That has nothing to do with it. I don't get the comparison. This isn't a "oh we like might vote for the same dude? Cool." If the point is that he's a socialist for someone center right and to them, that's as bed as misogyny and racism, I guess I get it. But I'm truly curious about specifics on Bernie's issue with women and people of color.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Bernie gets elected. He's my candidate this time, and he's the closest to my values, but I have a better chance of becoming one of the oligarchs than we do of actually overthrowing them. 

I have no difficulty believing the stories about Sanders, because I'm 65 years old and he's 12 years older than me. I spent my whole life dealing with the older generation and the way they dealt with women, paying us less, skipping us over for promotion because the guy in the office has a family to look after, making inappropriate comments and inappropriate touching.

His 2015 campaign was full of stories about women being outraged to find out they were being paid thousands less than men were being paid. In 20-fucking-15, not 1978. There were also stories about sexual harassment not being taken seriously. Did Sanders personally do these things? Not that I know of, but he was the leader. He said he had no knowledge of any of this, because, ya know, he was busy (that's what he actually said). But he has been in politics for 29 years and has run many campaigns. What, he has never had basic rules in his campaign? Were women always underpaid? Was sexual harassment a daily feature? Did this suddenly happen out of the blue in 2015?

Women are supposed to just stand back and say, same old, same old, we're used to it, Bernie is soooo wonderful! So minor compared to the stuff the other guys are doing!

Like Zabz said, everyone has issues.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

6 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

I don't mean to be pushy, my apologies. We can agree on the GOP.

  Good to find common ground!  It is true though that I am probably center-right.  Interestingly enough, I think I agree with a lot of you on the issues that this country faces, and also about thinking that the issues are urgent. 

• Climate change
• Health care (I've come around on single-payer; don't think I'll ever get to single provider, but that's another story)
• Education (but I don't believe in free college for all.  I DO however believe in "Free-K" (i.e., free education starting at age 3; and honestly, I'd back a European style creche system).

I don't trust government to be the solution as much as a lot of you all seem to because the impermanence that this creates as a result of our system of government (and, current administration is a QED I told you so moment, but I digress).  That said, I'm not a "free marketer" (that's magical thinking and just dumb) either.  So, (i) I believe that the government needs to provide some solutions to these problems, (ii) I believe in the concept of "public goods" for which the public should pay for with tax money, but (iii) just like I don't believe that there is no such think as a public good, nor do I believe that everything can be solved merely by government intervention and that a lot of the things being proposed by the left ALSO include a lot of magical thinking.    I have some weird out-there views on open borders and also on privacy.  I believe in personal responsibility and accountability.  I think family, relationships and community are important and should be supported, but my definitions of each are broad and expansive.  I believe in self-determination.  I am not a moral relativist.  I have highly informed and technical views about tax policy about which I will bore you all.

And so the GOP has lost me.  It is unethical, thinks only in the short term, opposes individual rights again and again (unless they are religious, which is BS), is for closed borders, doesn't care about privacy, is doing active harm to the environment, has no plan on health care, and has less than no plan on education (I don't count vouchers - all it's doing is involving government in religious education which is so insidious and bad, I can't even believe it).  But the Democratic party only has me because the alternative is SO BAD.  I realize there aren't many 'mes' that exist (though there is a decent contingent on the board (hi @Ser Scot A Ellison @Ormond @Mudguard).  That's ok.  I'm ok being quirky, and I'm also ok and non-threatened by lots of other points of view.  I've learned a lot of stuff and evolved myself over the years!