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US Politics - Primary Numbers


Mlle. Zabzie

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20 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Also Bloomberg is a coward.  He's always been a gop, and now he pretends to be a dem.

Actually, he was a Democrat before switching to the Republican party in 2001 and then became an Independent in 2007 before coming back to the Democrats in 2018. I am not a fan of his, but his party affiliation (for the last two decades, at least) appears to be mostly determined by what gives him the best chance to be elected.

Also, I don't think he is a coward. He is gambling more money than 99.999%+ of the people in the world will ever see in their entire lives on a strategy that has never worked in the history of the modern primary system. That is, nobody has ever ignored all of the early states and still won (ironically, the last candidate to try was another former mayor of New York City). Granted, Bloomberg is so absurdly wealthy that the money he is spending is a relatively small fraction of his fortune, but even so, few rich people take risks with that kind of cash.

Finally, it's not clear whether people will vote for him or not -- he's currently third (behind Sanders and Biden) according to both RealClearPolitics and FiveThirtyEight.

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15 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Actually, he was a Democrat before switching to the Republican party in 2001 and then became an Independent in 2007 before coming back to the Democrats in 2018. I am not a fan of his, but his party affiliation (for the last two decades, at least) appears to be mostly determined by what gives him the best chance to be elected.

Also, I don't think he is a coward. He is gambling more money than 99.999%+ of the people in the world will ever see in their entire lives on a strategy that has never worked in the history of the modern primary system. That is, nobody has ever ignored all of the early states and still won (ironically, the last candidate to try was another former mayor of New York City). Granted, Bloomberg is so absurdly wealthy that the money he is spending is a relatively small fraction of his fortune, but even so, few rich people take risks with that kind of cash.

Finally, it's not clear whether people will vote for him or not -- he's currently third (behind Sanders and Biden) according to both RealClearPolitics and FiveThirtyEight.

Doesn't follow. Guy has so much money it doesn't matter to him if he throws a few hundred million away? 

That doesn't make him not a coward.

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1 hour ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Doesn't follow. Guy has so much money it doesn't matter to him if he throws a few hundred million away? 

That doesn't make him not a coward.

Rich people -- even absurdly rich people -- do not generally "throw away" hundreds of millions of dollars; that's part of the reason they are rich in the first place (amusingly enough, people who inherit wealth are often quite different, but Bloomberg is not one of these). It takes courage to try a strategy that has never been tried before or, to the extent that it has been tried, has never succeeded.

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2 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

No lesser of two evils thing?

He's not a lesser evil, he's the same evil, just smarter, slicker, richer and infinitely more effective.

As many of we Nyers put it when it comes to racism, for just one instance, with bedbug you got the Queen's verison, with Bloomy you got the Brooklyn version.  It's still virulent, vicious racism.  And black women in particular are victimized by it.  Women generally.  Gee whiz -- we start with his racism and we immediately are forced into sexist bigotry too, and the others all follow.  He's not the lesser of two evils, he's the same evil with a different face.

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5 minutes ago, Zorral said:

He's not a lesser evil, he's the same evil, just smarter, slicker, richer and infinitely more effective.

As many of we Nyers put it when it comes to racism, for just one instance, with bedbug you got the Queen's verison, with Bloomy you got the Brooklyn version.  It's still virulent, vicious racism.  And black women in particular are victimized by it.  Women generally.  Gee whiz -- we start with his racism and we immediately are forced into sexist bigotry too, and the others all follow.  He's not the lesser of two evils, he's the same evil with a different face.

So best hope he doesn’t somehow get the nom.

Because if he does, and it’s a choice between him and Trump we’re fucked. 

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8 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

 

  • Education (but I don't believe in free college for all.  I DO however believe in "Free-K" (i.e., free education starting at age 3; and honestly, I'd back a European style creche system).

 

Pardon, but I'm gonna use your post to ask a question.

So right now the norm in is the U.S. is what, K-12 right? That's 13 years of taxpayer schooling.

What is the point of these 13 years? Isn't it to get children enough education that after graduation they can join the workforce? If we are now at the point where the information included in a college degree, but not a high school one, is required for jobs with a livable wage, then why isn't that information included in these 13 years of school? If time is the factor, shouldn't it be extended to 15 years?

What the hell is the worth of 13 years of education if you can't get a decent job with it?

If that is not the case, then shouldn't the onus be on employers to quit demanding multi year degrees, that put people thousands of dollars in debt, for jobs that require 3-6 weeks of OJT?

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2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Obama didn't have billions of dollars that he gouged through information domination of the financial industries either.

To compare this campaign in any way with Obama's is an endorsement of billionaires BUYING the nomination and presidency. For one thing it mattered to Obama's campaign that I gave it donations.  I matter so little to Bloomberg's campaign he doesn't even want a donation from the likes of me.  Which one is going to be representing my interests and which one is not?

Literally, what the flying fuck are you raving about?

Bloomberg gouged billions out of the financial industry? Bloomberg had the vision to realize the financial sector had to be modernized. I was working in the technology sector when his equipment started showing up. He. Changed. Everything. He's worth $61 B and earned every cent of it. He also carved out a business providing information. Feel free to set up a competing business. All you have to do is do it better. Good luck doing that. And he didn't inherit any silver spoon in his mouth either. Daddy did not provide millions to him in his childhood.

And who compared his campaign to Obama's? All I said is that he has set up a huge organization, now bigger than Obama's, to fight Donald Trump, and he will offer it up to the person who wins the nomination if he isn't that person. Do you think that offer is some kind of toxic trap? The Republicans can take hundreds of millions from their billionaires but that's too damn good for Democrats?

Fuck, that's almost rich enough for me to wish 4 more years of Donald Trump on you, except for the fact that means 4 more years of that poxy mouthed orange rat being imposed on the rest of the world.

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Black people will not vote for him and without the black vote that's that.  Watch, read, listen to what stop and frisk really meant in the experience of black people in NYC -- particularly for black women.  Bloomberg is goddamned terrorist.  Just because he's more polite about his racism and the rest -- in public! -- doesn't change a goddamned thing.

I will NOT vote for him, no matter what.  I'll vote for my local candidates for local offices.  But I won't vote for him for POTUS.  It's the same thing we already have, just slicker.

Do I give a shit about whether or not black people vote for him? I already said I was an Elizabeth Warren supporter. Americans are going to pick the Democratic nominee and it's up to them, not foreigners. And guess what, not up to you either, but the collective voice.

And if Bloomberg is chosen as the nominee, which I doubt, and you decide not to vote for him, I'll hold you in as much contempt as I hold for Bernie bros who just couldn't hold their bloody noses and vote for HRC. If Trump wins, you'll deserve every disgusting thing he does to you. The rest of us won't, but who gives a shit, right?

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5 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Pardon, but I'm gonna use your post to ask a question.

So right now the norm in is the U.S. is what, K-12 right? That's 13 years of taxpayer schooling.

What is the point of these 13 years? Isn't it to get children enough education that after graduation they can join the workforce? If we are now at the point where the information included in a college degree, but not a high school one, is required for jobs with a livable wage, then why isn't that information included in these 13 years of school? If time is the factor, shouldn't it be extended to 15 years?

What the hell is the worth of 13 years of education if you can't get a decent job with it?

If that is not the case, then shouldn't the onus be on employers to quit demanding multi year degrees, that put people thousands of dollars in debt, for jobs that require 3-6 weeks of OJT?

It's the myth of the liberal education. The concept is to provide citizens with knowledge of all kinds of things--science, arts, culture, etc. In fact, the thought of school just being job training is the problem. Despite having the liberal education model, we are treating it as other countries that use education as vocation training and put their kiddos on tracks.

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I do like the assertion that black people aren't going to vote for Bloomberg despite his polling with AA is quite good and on par with sanders, black people are saying outright that theyll vote for him because he is better than trump, and black people in New York while he was promoting stop and frisk voted for him there, too. 

Theres a whole lot of evidence and black people telling you you're wrong. Maybe listen to why?

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2 minutes ago, Muaddibs_Tapeworm said:

Who's that guy who keeps winning primaries? Media never seems to mention his name. I want to say Barnyard Sandy? I'm voting for him.

Jokes to go.

First, I don’t recommend writing Barnyard Sandy in. Can’t  say for sure such a person doesn’t exist, but if he does I don’t think he’s who you mean.

Second. Aren’t we only on 2? With 1 being a caucus?

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1 hour ago, A True Kaniggit said:

What is the point of these 13 years? Isn't it to get children enough education that after graduation they can join the workforce?

No, not at all. It's to keep children occupied and out of trouble so that both parents can be at work. It also attempts to teach them to be obedient and to conform and yes, some basic skills (reading, writing, math, etc.) which will be useful later, but these are secondary and almost everyone forgets most of what they learned over the years.

1 hour ago, A True Kaniggit said:

If we are now at the point where the information included in a college degree, but not a high school one, is required for jobs with a livable wage, then why isn't that information included in these 13 years of school?

Most of the information included in a college degree is not required for anything and again, almost everyone will forget most of what they learned over the years. Some people (mainly those who go to grad school) will make extensive use of a subset of this information, but again, the information is secondary -- the thing that's required for many decent jobs is not the information, but the degree itself. It's an expensive credential that proclaims one to be a member of the largest in-group in the country.

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32 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Most of the information included in a college degree is not required for anything and again, almost everyone will forget most of what they learned over the years. Some people (mainly those who go to grad school) will make extensive use of a subset of this information, but again, the information is secondary -- the thing that's required for many decent jobs is not the information, but the degree itself. It's an expensive credential that proclaims one to be a member of the largest in-group in the country.

So you agree the problem is many employers demanding a useless degree for jobs that don't need it?

Edit: A two second google reveals to me that only 34% of Americans have a minimum 4 year degree. How is that the largest in-group in the country?

Pretty sure being white like us still takes the cake on that account. 

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15 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Don't vote for him in any primary, but do vote for him in the election if he wins the nomination.

Ahhh, the Hillary Theory.

No. Just because the average Democrat doesn't have integrity, you can't ask me to eschew mine.

Imagine someone calling themselves a liberal voting for the Stop and Frisk guy for President. I'd rather another four years of Trump.

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16 minutes ago, Stego said:

Ahhh, the Hillary Theory.

No. Just because the average Democrat doesn't have integrity, you can't ask me to eschew mine.

Imagine someone calling themselves a liberal voting for the Stop and Frisk guy for President. I'd rather another four years of Trump.

Except Trump advocated making Stop and Frisk a nationwide policy after it was declared unconstitutional. Even Fox News called him out on this.

 

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Bloomberg has nothing to do with being a coward or being courageous.  What he's spending on this election won't change his life at all, even if it was a total waste - he could light it on fire and his life wouldn't be any different.  On the other hand he stands to gain an enormous amount of power, and now we have the precedent with Trump that the prez can benefit financially from the presidency.  

There's no courage in doing what he's doing, at best it's a calculated risk with a ridiculous amount of money that is still just a drop in his fortune.  

If he wanted to be brave he would be dumping a couple million into every single Senate and House race that could go either way.  He's done that in the past and it worked to elect Toomey.  

Bloomberg's no hero, he's just a capitalist oligarch who is less shitty than Trump.

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1 hour ago, Stego said:

Ahhh, the Hillary Theory.

No. Just because the average Democrat doesn't have integrity, you can't ask me to eschew mine.

Imagine someone calling themselves a liberal voting for the Stop and Frisk guy for President. I'd rather another four years of Trump.

Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!

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Personally, I don't trust Bloomberg when he says that we will support the Democratic nominee no matter who he is. He already changed his mind once this cycle (about running for president in the first place). In early 2016, he declared he would run as an independent in general election if ends up being Sanders vs Trump.

If Sanders wins the Democratic nomination, I'd say there's a better than 50% chance that's exactly what he will do.

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But then Boomberg didn' t run in 2016 when all of the data showed Trump would win. The same thing would likely happen again. The guy wants to win and he wants Trump to lose. Now would be given his campaign apparatus to Sanders if he doesn't get the nomination as he promised he would? Maybe not.

Someone pointed out that for all of the money he has spent he still hasn't spent the Trump tax cut yet. Can't say if that's true but it does point out he is not  being punished financially for this run. 

By the way it would be stupid to vote for Trump over Bloomberg if you are a left leaning person in the same way it would be stupid to vote for Trump over Sanders.

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