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Gvido

When exactly Littlefinger asked for Sansa's hand?

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Before or after Ned's execution? It is uncertain from Cersei's thought.

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Petyr Baelish had offered to wed the girl himself, she recalled.

 

 

Edited by Gvido

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Probably sometime between his successful negotiation of the Lannister Tyrell alliance and before her marriage to Tyrion (obviously). I think there were 2 possible times.

1. Immediately after Blackwater he could have asked for Sansa as a reward as she obviously would have been a greater prize then Harrenhal.

2. After Dontos told him about the Tyrell plan to marry her to Willas. This is the more probable one as he already had the status to make such marriage possible by Westerosi customs. He probably told the Lannisters ,,Hey, the Tyrells want to marry Sansa to Willas, maybe we could give her one of our own, me for example"

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18 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Probably sometime between his successful negotiation of the Lannister Tyrell alliance and before her marriage to Tyrion (obviously). I think there were 2 possible times.

1. Immediately after Blackwater he could have asked for Sansa as a reward as she obviously would have been a greater prize then Harrenhal.

2. After Dontos told him about the Tyrell plan to marry her to Willas. This is the more probable one as he already had the status to make such marriage possible by Westerosi customs. He probably told the Lannisters ,,Hey, the Tyrells want to marry Sansa to Willas, maybe we could give her one of our own, me for example"

The problem with this dates is that Cersei should have been in power to allow such marriage and with Tyrion or Tywin as Hand that was impossible.

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4 hours ago, Gvido said:

The problem with this dates is that Cersei should have been in power to allow such marriage and with Tyrion or Tywin as Hand that was impossible.

Not really. Even after Tyrion and then Tywin took over as Hand, Cersei was Queen Regent and as such was at all Small Council meetings, when Littlefinger could have asked for Sansa's hand.

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Prior to the execution. We can expect that Littlefinger did arrange the execution (if he did that) because Cersei refused to grant him Sansa's hand.

The entire thing of Sansa remaining Joff's bride-to-be apparently was a ruse Cersei used to keep Sansa in line (and she later, after Ned's execution, she never bothered to tell her or Joffrey about). Bringing up Sansa when the Margaery option presented itself was apparently more an attempt on her part to not get in the bed with the Tyrells - who she didn't like even before they came to court.

7 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Probably sometime between his successful negotiation of the Lannister Tyrell alliance and before her marriage to Tyrion (obviously). I think there were 2 possible times.

1. Immediately after Blackwater he could have asked for Sansa as a reward as she obviously would have been a greater prize then Harrenhal.

2. After Dontos told him about the Tyrell plan to marry her to Willas. This is the more probable one as he already had the status to make such marriage possible by Westerosi customs. He probably told the Lannisters ,,Hey, the Tyrells want to marry Sansa to Willas, maybe we could give her one of our own, me for example"

No, that doesn't fly. Littlefinger planned to abduct Sansa as soon as Tyrion made the fake Robert-Myrcella offer in ACoK. If he had not yet asked Cersei for Sansa's hand at that time he wouldn't have done that.

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9 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

No, that doesn't fly. Littlefinger planned to abduct Sansa as soon as Tyrion made the fake Robert-Myrcella offer in ACoK. If he had not yet asked Cersei for Sansa's hand at that time he wouldn't have done that.

The problem if the proposal was made so early was the fact that Littlefinger was the lord of 3 rocks on the edge of Westeros. Even if Sansa was the daughter of a traitor, he simply didn't have the status for such a match to work.

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9 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

The problem if the proposal was made so early was the fact that Littlefinger was the lord of 3 rocks on the edge of Westeros. Even if Sansa was the daughter of a traitor, he simply didn't have the status for such a match to work.

It seems that he may have intended to make Sansa's hand his reward for helping Cersei in the succession. Slynt got Harrenhal ... he got nothing. Why is that?

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1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Slynt got Harrenhal ... he got nothing. Why is that?

Probably because Littlefinger didn't it wanted known that he orchestrated Ned's fall. Remember he believed Renly was going to take the Throne (as he would have had it not been for the One True King) so it would be better for him to lay low a bit and see who would win. Accepting any prize would be acknowledgement that helped Joffrey's ascension and ruin his relation with everybody who wasn't a Lannister.

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Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Probably because Littlefinger didn't it wanted known that he orchestrated Ned's fall. Remember he believed Renly was going to take the Throne (as he would have had it not been for the One True King) so it would be better for him to lay low a bit and see who would win. Accepting any prize would be acknowledgement that helped Joffrey's ascension and ruin his relation with everybody who wasn't a Lannister.

Why should Renly care? Littlefinger would have sold Cersei to him as soon as his army approached the city. They got along pretty well.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

It seems that he may have intended to make Sansa's hand his reward for helping Cersei in the succession. Slynt got Harrenhal ... he got nothing. Why is that?

Because his part was betrayal behind the scenes?... With the "Baratheon"-Tyrell alliance they could perhaps be more upfront about those negotiations, that he was the one who brokered them.

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1 minute ago, Angel Eyes said:

Because his part was betrayal behind the scenes?... With the "Baratheon"-Tyrell alliance they could perhaps be more upfront about those negotiations, that he was the one who brokered them.

Littlefinger continued to serve King Joffrey after the coup. Him getting a reward doesn't mean he betrayed Eddard Stark in an important manner - just that he was loyal to King Joffrey and Queen Cersei.

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1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Littlefinger continued to serve King Joffrey after the coup. Him getting a reward doesn't mean he betrayed Eddard Stark in an important manner - just that he was loyal to King Joffrey and Queen Cersei.

Well given that the only other person rewarded was someone who was obviously hands on involved in Joffrey's ascension, it would be pretty obvious.

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16 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Well given that the only other person rewarded was someone who was obviously hands on involved in Joffrey's ascension, it would be pretty obvious.

Tywin was made Hand, too. Jaime Lord Commander. Neither had anything to do with it. Nor is there any reason to assume most of Westeros would care whether a council man sided with the heir apparent against the Hand.

Edited by Lord Varys

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Tywin was made Hand, too. Jaime Lord Commander. Neither had anything to do with it. Nor is there any reason to assume most of Westeros would care whether a council man sided with the heir apparent against the Hand.

They were Lannisters. With those titles being granted, the Lannisters are granting titles to their own men. By giving Janos Harrenhal, they are clearly showing to everybody that Janos is their man. Think about it if the people being granted titles and positions where Tywin and Jaime who were Lannisters, Janos Slynt who made himself known as a Lannister henchmen and Littlefinger, what does that say about Littlefinger?

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I think it happened no later than near the end of ACOK. Littlefinger negotiated with Tyrells that if they will aid Lannisters against Stannis, then Joffrey will marry with Margaery. Thus it seems likely that this was when LF offered to Cersei that if Joffrey is going to marry with Marg, but they still need to keep Sansa under their control, so she should be married with someone who is on the same side as Lannisters, and he offered himself. Maybe he even asked it as a reward for his success in negotiations with Tyrells. Or it could have happened even earlier, shortly after Ned's execution, or maybe even while Ned was still alive. Maybe there were doubts whether Joffrey should stay engaged with a traitors daughter, but they still had a need to keep Sansa under their control, thus LF offereded to marry with her way back in AGOT.

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