US Politics - Turtles crawl, the constipation sensation that's gripping the nation.

[Kalbear]

No, it doesnt. What does is the complete toothlessness of the emolument clause. Prior to this it was assumed super rich would have a major issue divesting and would lose everything or near to it, or would be mired in scandal. Turns out no one cares about things like corruption. 

[Fez]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

I said something like this in the last thread, I think, but it is definitely not a healthy sign for the two major parties or for the US system how the last two primaries for the opposition parties have unfolded. Lots of weak candidates instead of three or four strong ones suggests something is going badly wrong.

It's the collapse of both parties as institutional gatekeepers. I know a lot of people celebrate this as a good thing, less un-democratic backroom deals that the public doesn't hear about it. But it also often leads to uncontrollable chaos. It happened to Republicans first, when crazy, far-right candidates kept winning senate primaries in 2010 (and then lost their general elections that year, costing Republicans the Senate); and has accelerated since then among both parties.

For now Republicans are sort of held together by the cult of Trump (though his power in Republican primaries has not been absolute), but once he's left the stage there's no telling what will happen with them. And Democrats are in the same situation Republicans had been in in 2016. There's no ability to wave-off challengers anymore, which means more power to whichever groups are more motivated to vote in primaries. Sometimes that perfectly fine and can lead to more representative politicians, like what AOC did, other times it leads to unelectable candidates standing in general elections.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Can't help but to notice the similarities to the UK politics and its major parties.

It’s the death of expertise and it’s sweeping across the West. What follows it likely won’t look pretty.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Dear god, I didn't realize Bloomberg was already third in national polls (I mean, I blinked for 3 days and this is what I saw).

I think Biden should drop out now. While it may mean Sanders will suffer a bit because of consolidation of the moderate lane, I'd rather we have two contrasting visions (I don't think Klobuchar and Pete will last much past this point). Right now he's just sucking oxygen off with his milquetoast, I stand for nothing campaign that enthuses precisely no one.

Bloomberg's comments about farmers are an interesting side topic that I don't have time to go into. 

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Bloomberg's comments about farmers are an interesting side topic

One begins the commentary with, "This dumb white guy knows nothing about farming."  My father had more skills and talents in his left thumb than Bloomie's got.  He could fix, himself, every damned machine on the place.  He could do carpentry.  He doctor livestock.  He tested his seed to see if it were viable enough to actually grow a crop (because, sometimes you betcha Cargill's groups would pass off bad stuff), he could dig sewer line, dig a well, roof a building, string wires for electricity and phone lines with his neighbors, all of the working together.

Beyond that, he also took training, classes and taught himself arial navigation, got his pilot's license, then his small plane teacher's certification, then helicopter pilot certification sometime between 45 - 50.  He didn't go to college (though he went to h.s.).   He learned Spanish before he died. Yah, just a dumb farmer.

I spit on people who say stupid shyte like that.

[Larry of the Lawn]

5 minutes ago, Zorral said:

One begins the commentary with, "This dumb white guy knows nothing about farming."  My father had more skills and talents in his left thumb than Bloomie's got.  He could fix, himself, every damned machine on the place.  He could do carpentry.  He doctor livestock.  He tested his seed to see if it were viable enough to actually grow a crop (because, sometimes you betcha Cargill's groups would pass off bad stuff), he could dig sewer line, dig a well, roof a building, string wires for electricity and phone lines with his neighbors, all of the working together.

Beyond that, he also took training, classes and taught himself arial navigation, got his pilot's license, then his small plane teacher's certification, then helicopter pilot certification sometime between 45 - 50.  He didn't go to college (though he went to h.s.).   He learned Spanish before he died. Yah, just a dumb farmer.

I spit on people who say stupid shyte like that.

A fucking men.  How weird that we're hearing such typical classist bullshit from this not-quite-as-bad-as-Truml billionaire?  

[Centrist Simon Steele]

2 hours ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Dear god, I didn't realize Bloomberg was already third in national polls (I mean, I blinked for 3 days and this is what I saw).

I think Biden should drop out now. While it may mean Sanders will suffer a bit because of consolidation of the moderate lane, I'd rather we have two contrasting visions (I don't think Klobuchar and Pete will last much past this point). Right now he's just sucking oxygen off with his milquetoast, I stand for nothing campaign that enthuses precisely no one.

Bloomberg's comments about farmers are an interesting side topic that I don't have time to go into. 

It might be helpful to Sanders if Biden drops. A lot of Biden voters list Sanders as option 2.

[karaddin]

I thought the criticism of those comments from Bloomberg is that he's saying modern farmers lack grey matter, not anything to do with the historical requirements of farming - it's certainly the part I thought was offensive and foolish.

I do think there are challenges with transitioning workers from farming, factory work and mining into the modern economy, but they have nothing to do with whether the people in question are smart enough. They're about the way your job is part of your identity and the culture you're immersed in, and people that are used to working in "masculine" fields doing manual labour can't simply be picked up, taught the technical skills and dropped into the service industry or office work. 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

How weird that we're hearing such typical classist bullshit from this not-quite-as-bad-as-Truml billionaire?

I'm not sure I'd describe denigrating farmers as "classist."  Much more has to do with the rural-urban divide - after all, many farmers would be described as at least middle if not upper class.  Like @karaddin said, my biggest problem with those remarks was the "grey matter" horseshit, which is getting very close to some way fucked up eugenics-type - and actively dangerous - "values" Bloomberg holds.  No matter what though, it's a really stupid and electorally damaging thing to say - or have revealed - if you're running for POTUS.  Obama surely regrets his "cling to their guns and religion" remarks, absolutely no reason to touch that cultural divide with a ten-foot poll.

[Larry of the Lawn]

18 minutes ago, Triskele said:

It's getting harder to even understand the "any blue will do" argument behind a transactional decision to support Bloomberg.  Would he even be a good general election candidate?

He did win the coveted Thomas Friedman endorsement, so there's that.  

I will be... interested, is probably the best word, to hear everyone out who excoriated the far left that sat out for Clinton in 2016, on the grounds that Trump was a sexist, serial harasser, racist, out of touch uber-rich elite who had to be stopped at all costs, if Bloomberg gets the nom.  I am still very sympathetic to that line of reasoning, but we may get to see it played out to its most absurd conclusion.  

Don't worry, in that situation I will vote for Bloomberg.  With a lengthy apology to posterity in the works.

13 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I thought the criticism of those comments from Bloomberg is that he's saying modern farmers lack grey matter, not anything to do with the historical requirements of farming - it's certainly the part I thought was offensive and foolish.

I do think there are challenges with transitioning workers from farming, factory work and mining into the modern economy, but they have nothing to do with whether the people in question are smart enough. They're about the way your job is part of your identity and the culture you're immersed in, and people that are used to working in "masculine" fields doing manual labour can't simply be picked up, taught the technical skills and dropped into the service industry or office work. 

Thanks for this take, I wanted to comment on that too, emphasizing that these jobs aren't disappearing from lack of skill, but from automation, where as one of the earlier posters seemed to emphasize some kind of 'skills gap'.  

Also, the public conception of farming in the US is so far out of whack with reality, maybe more so than any other commonly-appealed-to-by-politicians profession.  

Wait until they hear about people working in the health insurance industry...

5 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm not sure I'd describe denigrating farmers as "classist."  Much more has to do with the rural-urban divide - after all, many farmers would be described as at least middle if not upper class.  Like @karaddin said, my biggest problem with those remarks was the "grey matter" horseshit, which is getting very close to some way fucked up eugenics-type - and actively dangerous - "values" Bloomberg holds.  No matter what though, it's a really stupid and electorally damaging thing to say - or have revealed - if you're running for POTUS.  Obama surely regrets his "cling to their guns and religion" remarks, absolutely no reason to touch that cultural divide with a ten-foot poll.

I hear you, but it's the same argument that rich douchebags have been trotting out against anyone who does what sounds like a physically tough job, and yes so rural America in general, for ages.  It is funny though that moderates think this will okay better in the "heartland" than Sanders message.  And combined with the rest of Bloomberg's catalog I'm comfortable calling it classist even if your description is more accurate.

[OnionAhaiReborn]

6 hours ago, Fez said:

If Bloomberg wins the Democratic nomination, which still isn't the most likely outcome, I think it speaks more to the weakness of the nominee field than the strength of Bloomberg's money among the Democratic electorate. Bloomberg in 2008 would not have had the same success he is now.

To an extent I can take your point, clearly the surprising weakness of Biden in particular has opened up an opportunity for Bloomberg, and it's allowed him to pursue a strategy of skipping early primaries that would normally never work.

With that said, why is it that Bloomberg has taken off instead of the other non-Biden "moderate" options? Why is it that they're weak but Bloomberg is surprisingly strong? Is Bloomberg particularly charismatic? Not really. Does he have an especially impressive political resume? Maybe more than Buttigieg but not more than Klobuchar or several other candidates whose campaigns went bust well before this point. Is he better aligned with the Democratic electorate ideologically? Certainly not. Does he have an absurd amount of money to throw around? Yes. 

[OnionAhaiReborn]

28 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

 

I hear you, but it's the same argument that rich douchebags have been trotting out against anyone who does what sounds like a physically tough job, and yes so rural America in general, for ages.  It is funny though that moderates think this will okay better in the "heartland" than Sanders message.  And combined with the rest of Bloomberg's catalog I'm comfortable calling it classist even if your description is more accurate.

You were 100% correct and accurate with "classist"- Bloomberg denigrates factory workers along with farmers in the same clip. Clearly not just a rural-urban divide at work. 

[ThinkerX]

Barr is getting some serious internal push back.   Starting to wonder if it might cost him his job, and what juicy tales might bubble to the surface....

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/federal-judges-association-calls-emergency-meeting-after-doj-intervenes-in-case-of-trump-ally-roger-stone/ar-BB1068Le?ocid=ob-fb-enus-580&fbclid=IwAR0mtEwU20vjQd8DXbhU8Eb7KyKgBNXlY-2OhvADdzWcG96fBNwenYHd3Ro

WASHINGTON–A national association of federal judges has called an emergency meeting Tuesday to address growing concerns about the intervention of Justice Department officials and President Donald Trump in politically sensitive cases, the group’s president said Monday.

 

Philadelphia U.S. District Judge Cynthia Rufe, who heads the independent Federal Judges Association, said the group “could not wait” until its spring conference to weigh in on a deepening crisis that has enveloped the Justice Department and Attorney General William Barr.

“There are plenty of issues that we are concerned about,” Rufe told USA TODAY. “We’ll talk all of this through.”

...

The unusual concern voiced by the judges’ group comes in the wake of an equally unusual protest. Sunday, more than 2,000 former Justice Department officials called on Barr to resign, claiming his handling of the Stone case "openly and repeatedly flouted" the principle of equal justice.

"Although there are times when political leadership appropriately weighs in on individual prosecutions, it is unheard of for the department’s top leaders to overrule line prosecutors, who are following established policies, in order to give preferential treatment to a close associate of the president, as Attorney General Barr did in the Stone case," the letter reads.

 

[karaddin]

33 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm not sure I'd describe denigrating farmers as "classist."  Much more has to do with the rural-urban divide - after all, many farmers would be described as at least middle if not upper class.  Like @karaddin said, my biggest problem with those remarks was the "grey matter" horseshit, which is getting very close to some way fucked up eugenics-type - and actively dangerous - "values" Bloomberg holds.  

Yeah, with eugenics being openly advocated for it's a very concerning turn of phrase from someone with a history of comfort in implementing policies actively targeting those he sees as lesser. 

Not only are Nazis back but so are the evil policies that were comorbid with their rise

[ThinkerX]

34 minutes ago, Triskele said:

I feel like we're living in a movie, and in that movie, Barr does not resign.  That is not how this story goes.  

I do have to wonder if Barr could be legally removed as the result of an external or internal investigation - say, charged with witness tampering, maybe a grand jury indictment, something along those lines...

 

That said, between the judges and the DOJ officials, I see a fair possibility of juicy leaks emerging regardless.  

[Larry of the Lawn]

Remember the good ol' days where you could buy your way into a presidential bid with a few million bucks?  Now a days folks have to spend upwards of 400 million*, and that's just on ads!  #bloomberghasittougherthanyouthink...tougherrrrrrr********####""******

*And commit to spending over a billion*

 

**Much bigger number! (Has more zeros) (?).  !!!!!!! **

 

 

[Freshwater Spartan]

Found this article amusing

Mike Bloomberg's ads ranked

 

185 hours will brainwash you.

[Kalbear]

One thing Bloomberg is doing that I think is explaining a bit of why he's surging is fairly simple. His core message is that Trump is horrible and showing all the things that Trump does which are bad, and calling him out for it. This is good in that it isn't against specific other candidates and helps in the general, but it also speaks to the way in which the other candidates have largely been fighting each other instead of focusing as much on getting Trump out. 

And between that and fears of electability, Bloomberg has been getting some hearts and minds.

That said, one of the reasons that Biden was doing well was in retrospect a fairly simple one too - in lieu of "undecided", a lot of people had picked Biden because they knew who he was. As it gets closer to races and as the race gets more people involved you're seeing that dissipate. 

[Fragile Bird]

Didn’t all this ‘buying your way into getting elected’ start with a couple of rich guys who spent record amounts of money (largely their own) to get elected to the Senate?

[Fragile Bird]

I decided to go look for the source of that clip of Bloomberg speaking, and found it, a talk at a university in London given in 2016. 

In my original response I said given that this is an election campaign, I expected the comments would be out of context.

The comments are so. Fucking. Out. Of. Context it's absolutely bloody ridiculous. Bloomberg is talking about education and the need for people to have the dignity of work, and how vitally important it is to society. It is absolutely not an attack on farmers or blue collar workers, it's about education.

In my previous comments I went on to talk about attacks on Hilary with regard to coal miners, and he actually also talks about coal miners and the fact that they are not going to move to California to take jobs in the solar industry and besides that, they won't be hired anyway. So the jobs issue has absolutely got to be addressed.

He also says he thinks the cost of university tuition should be high, and even higher, to force the rich to pay for tuition, which money should then be used to subsidize everyone else. Free education is wrong because you'd give the rich a free ride.

The talk is a good look at Bloomberg and his approach to government. He's asked about what advice he'd give to Donald Trump, and while he predicts some of Trump's weaknesses even Bloomberg could not foresee how far Trump would go. He actually thought climate change was an issue important to Americans, both to individuals and to corporations, and thought Trump would not dare to back away from the issue.

The clip cut out of the talk  by Mayor Pete's teamstarts around the 42 minute mark. If you can't be bothered listening to the whole thing, you should start at 40 minutes or even earlier to put it in context.

And btw, Bloomberg runs his business a helluva a lot differently than Trump ran his. Bloomberg notes he was away from the business for 13 years, and when he came back he saw changes had been made that he felt he had to roll back. He did not give titles to people, and discovered all kinds of people with business cards with titles on them. Gone. The workplace was open concept, and while it sort of looked that way, certain people had their desks near conference rooms which surprise, surprise, had pictures of their family members in them. Down came the glass walls and conference rooms were gone. He had his desk on the floor along with everyone else, and he noticed some people had bigger desks than others. One day they all came in to find all the desks were the same size and the extra stuff in the bigger desks was in boxes on top of their new desks.

I can't help but like this guy. Yes, I still am aware of the shitty stuff he has done in his life.

The speech is on You Tube somewhere, but I am just linking an article that has the complete You Tube segment in it.

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/bloomberg-sparks-bipartisan-outrage-for-past-condescending-remarks-about-farmers-in-unearthed-2016-clip-ignorant-as-fck/