US Politics - Turtles crawl, the constipation sensation that's gripping the nation.

[Fragile Bird]

I rarely watch debates, because I’m not voting and watching debates often makes me want to slap someone very, very hard. I figure I’ll get the highlights ad nauseam on CNN the next day anyway.

I have to admit I am very disappointed with your reports here. Considering how many people here stated Bloomberg was worse than Trump, I was wondering if you were holding out on some of the debate highlights.

How many times did Bloomberg call Warren Pocahontas?  When she talked about the allegations of sexual harassment, did he assure her she need not worry, he’d never consider harassing her? When it came time for him to answer her, did he reach into his pocket, pull out a piece of paper, wave it around, and announce he had his DNA done and he has just as much Native American heritage as she does, which surprised him considering he’s a Central European Jew?

Did he look the crowd straight in the face and say Mayor Pete’s a nice guy but his experience running his town compared to running NYC was like running a rowboat compared to running an aircraft carrier? Or that he had flown in 10 of the black protestors who had a few things to say about Mayor Pete’s job in South Bend? Or that he had a couple of fine Latino parents in the audience who didn’t think a man they wouldn’t allow to babysit their children should be president of the US?

And Sanders, oh boy, Sanders! After Sanders sneered at him for being a billionaire, how many times did he call him a communist who was going to take away their hard earned money? Did he have Joe the Plumber come out and talk about how every American dreams of becoming  a billionaire too? Did he have a couple of, what are they called, the mothers who have lost children fighting in wars, gold star mothers? Did he introduce the gold star mothers in the audience who were weeping over the thought their sons died so America could become communist? Did he announce he had paid for a doctor, a nurse and an ambulance be in stand-by in case Sanders had a heart attack on stage, while bragging he himself had the best health money could buy?

You may think I’m joking - I was just wondering how Trump is going to handle his couple of debates against the Democratic nominee. You know he’d do all of the above and more.

And on a more sober note, I sure hope Bloomberg wasn’t as bad as you say, because Trump is scared of Little Mike and his money and his message, and I’d hate to see the tweets that will be pouring forth from the White House.

[Larry of the Lawn]

7 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I rarely watch debates, because I’m not voting and watching debates often makes me want to slap someone very, very hard. I figure I’ll get the highlights ad nauseam on CNN the next day anyway.

I have to admit I am very disappointed with your reports here. Considering how many people here stated Bloomberg was worse than Trump, I was wondering if you were holding out on some of the debate highlights.

How many times did Bloomberg call Warren Pocahontas?  When she talked about the allegations of sexual harassment, did he assure her she need not worry, he’d never consider harassing her? When it came time for him to answer her, did he reach into his pocket, pull out a piece of paper, wave it around, and announce he had his DNA done and he has just as much Native American heritage as she does, which surprised him considering he’s a Central European Jew?

Did he look the crowd straight in the face and say Mayor Pete’s a nice guy but his experience running his town compared to running NYC was like running a rowboat compared to running an aircraft carrier? Or that he had flown in 10 of the black protestors who had a few things to say about Mayor Pete’s job in South Bend? Or that he had a couple of fine Latino parents in the audience who didn’t think a man they wouldn’t allow to babysit their children should be president of the US?

And Sanders, oh boy, Sanders! After Sanders sneered at him for being a billionaire, how many times did he call him a communist who was going to take away their hard earned money? Did he have Joe the Plumber come out and talk about how every American dreams of becoming  a billionaire too? Did he have a couple of, what are they called, the mothers who have lost children fighting in wars, gold star mothers? Did he introduce the gold star mothers in the audience who were weeping over the thought their sons died so America could become communist? Did he announce he had paid for a doctor, a nurse and an ambulance be in stand-by in case Sanders had a heart attack on stage, while bragging he himself had the best health money could buy?

You may think I’m joking - I was just wondering how Trump is going to handle his couple of debates against the Democratic nominee. You know he’d do all of the above and more.

And on a more sober note, I sure hope Bloomberg wasn’t as bad as you say, because Trump is scared of Little Mike and his money and his message, and I’d hate to see the tweets that will be pouring forth from the White House.

Bloomberg got trounced by everyone, on pretty much everything you mentioned.  He did try to call Sanders a communist and Sanders response got one of the biggest crowd reactions of the night, and not in the way Bloomberg hoped.  Maybe you should just watch the debate. 

Sanders did well, but not great, started out really well, but I think Warren had the best performance.  I don't really think it matters much for anyone other Klobuchar, who was pretty bad, and who needed a pick me up.  I don't think the debates matter much at all.  And Jesus Christ Biden looks like he aged ten years since the last one.

But it was by far the most entertaining primary debate I can remember, and the only one I've watched all the way through without breaking shit or vommitting in my mouth.

The debate did show that Bloomberg will likely be destroyed rhetorically by Trump, I wouldn't count on him to be your savior.

[karaddin]

On top of going after Bloomberg the way she did, another of Warren's choices in the debate which struck me as good judgement was defending Klobuchar over forgetting the Mexican presidents name. She did it quite carefully so it was just that part, saying that we all forget things we know when put on the spot. 

Being seen as someone that would pull other women down to help herself wouldn't be a look the helps her, so being the opposite of that could well win some people over.

FB - I don't believe anyone is making the argument that Bloomberg isn't more civil than Trump. The argument that some of us have been making for years is that civility doesn't matter that much if the policies behind it are awful. In my case it comes from years of seeing peoples homophobia and transphobia getting treated like it's not being inflammatory just because they said it politely. In Bloomberg's case he's not speaking like Trump, but he's still got racist and Islamophobic policies along with a bunch of NDAs in his past. There's plenty of evidence to think he's a dangerous choice.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

That's exactly right. Sanders is the only one who fumbled the question, IMO, because he's nakedly reversing his position from 2016 now that he's the front runner. Everyone else is allowing for the scenario where a weak plurality does not really represent the will of the majority.

1) No one except us will remember or care what his 2016 position was.

2) The Iowa debacle already has people distrustful of the party.

3) Whomever is leading in delegates at the convention, handing the nomination to anyone but that person will ensure Democratic defeat in November.

[Lollygag]

Completely agree on fracking (wells in my hometown are going wonky) but this attitude of screw their jobs has created the false binary choice of environmentalism vs jobs. They won't even listen to climate change or poisoning the environment anymore because to them it's all just fuck you, fuck your job, fuck your town and fuck your family. The Ds have mismanaged the messaging on an epic scale and done generations worth of damage by not trying to compensate for job loss in reaction to changing environmental policies.

This is something city people don't understand. Rural people don't want to move. Moreover, they can't. The cost of living in rural areas is much lower so their house is worth less. Add a failing local economy, it's worth even less. Add a personal job loss onto that. Now factor in skyrocking housing costs in the cities where the jobs are. They're trapped. Hence the opioid epidemic.

With the rise of Sanders and socialism, it now takes on more than a little hypocrisy. Sanders and socialism is all about quality jobs and living wages, but when it comes to coal jobs, fracking jobs, etc. which is just people trying to find a way to take care of their family with very limited resources, then it's fuck off.

Agree that you don't campaign on it and get rid of coal, fracking etc in conjunction with practical and realistic plans for transitioning those workers. Get rid of the environment vs jobs false binary.

[Fragile Bird]

I’m really happy Warren did well, but it’s too late, isn’t it? If she were president the US government would hum like the proverbial well-oiled machine.

But I’m still happy I didn’t watch, the amount of smarm in debates makes me cringe.

[Lollygag]

12 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

1) No one except us will remember or care what his 2016 position was.

2) The Iowa debacle already has people distrustful of the party.

3) Whomever is leading in delegates at the convention, handing the nomination to anyone but that person will ensure Democratic defeat in November.

There's already several articles out on it this morning and I've already heard about it on MSNBC.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/20/who-won-the-debate-winners-and-losers-116286

Quote

That signals the Democratic field thinks there’s a good chance Sanders will end up with a plurality of delegates — and it means a contested convention might not just be the idle daydream of campaign pundits this year. Sanders’ team is going to try to get all the mileage it can out of that moment, saying that his rivals are OK with superdelegates deciding the Democratic nomination. But there’s a counterattack his rivals can use on that front: Sanders’ campaign went into the end of the 2016 primary season behind Hillary Clinton in the delegate race but still claiming he could win at the convention.

He even reversed himself in 2016.

https://www.npr.org/2016/05/19/478705022/sanders-campaign-now-says-superdelegates-are-key-to-winning-nomination

Quote

Despite badly lagging in the delegate count, Bernie Sanders' campaign manager told NPR the campaign believes Sanders can and will be the Democratic nominee by winning over superdelegates at the 11th hour.

"If we can substantially close the gap between Secretary Clinton and Sen. Sanders in terms of pledged delegates," Jeff Weaver told NPR's All Things Considered, "he can go into the convention with a substantial momentum from having won the vast, vast majority of states at the end of the process."

It's a sharp contrast from earlier in the campaign when Sanders supporters called superdelegates "undemocratic" and petitioned for them to support the candidate who has the most votes by the Democratic convention this July.

"When they get to the convention," Weaver continued, "nobody has the delegates to win with pledged delegates. It's going to be the superdelegates who are going to have to decide this."

 

[Maithanet]

It's probably too late for Warren.  Her support in polls is way down, and most of Nevada has already voted.  So any momentum that she picked up last night will disappear when Nevada results come in and she fails to show much movement.  Which is a shame, because she was the clear winner last night. 

If Bloomberg doesn't completely crater at the polls, it is proof that debates do not matter.  He wasn't just bad, he was atrocious.  He seemed unprepared, arrogant, callous and completely out of touch with the democratic electorate.  It really did feel like the Democrats had invited an anti-Trump Republican onto the stage (which they sorta did).  This is a good reminder that anti-Trump Republicans are very different from Democrats. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

54 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

I rarely watch debates, because I’m not voting and watching debates often makes me want to slap someone very, very hard. I figure I’ll get the highlights ad nauseam on CNN the next day anyway.

I have to admit I am very disappointed with your reports here. Considering how many people here stated Bloomberg was worse than Trump, I was wondering if you were holding out on some of the debate highlights.

How many times did Bloomberg call Warren Pocahontas?  When she talked about the allegations of sexual harassment, did he assure her she need not worry, he’d never consider harassing her? When it came time for him to answer her, did he reach into his pocket, pull out a piece of paper, wave it around, and announce he had his DNA done and he has just as much Native American heritage as she does, which surprised him considering he’s a Central European Jew?

Did he look the crowd straight in the face and say Mayor Pete’s a nice guy but his experience running his town compared to running NYC was like running a rowboat compared to running an aircraft carrier? Or that he had flown in 10 of the black protestors who had a few things to say about Mayor Pete’s job in South Bend? Or that he had a couple of fine Latino parents in the audience who didn’t think a man they wouldn’t allow to babysit their children should be president of the US?

And Sanders, oh boy, Sanders! After Sanders sneered at him for being a billionaire, how many times did he call him a communist who was going to take away their hard earned money? Did he have Joe the Plumber come out and talk about how every American dreams of becoming  a billionaire too? Did he have a couple of, what are they called, the mothers who have lost children fighting in wars, gold star mothers? Did he introduce the gold star mothers in the audience who were weeping over the thought their sons died so America could become communist? Did he announce he had paid for a doctor, a nurse and an ambulance be in stand-by in case Sanders had a heart attack on stage, while bragging he himself had the best health money could buy?

You may think I’m joking - I was just wondering how Trump is going to handle his couple of debates against the Democratic nominee. You know he’d do all of the above and more.

And on a more sober note, I sure hope Bloomberg wasn’t as bad as you say, because Trump is scared of Little Mike and his money and his message, and I’d hate to see the tweets that will be pouring forth from the White House.

He did look the crowd straight in the eyes and say the non-disclosure agreements he made women sign as part of settlements in their sexual harassment suits were all stemmed from him telling jokes that women didn't get. I mean, the absolute classic gas lighting of women who are harassed--insinuate they aren't suited to even be in the work place because they don't understand things like humor. 

As for Sanders? He said he was a communist a couple of times at least. He literally was like Trump, and quite monstrous.

[Jace, Extat]

2 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

 

As for Sanders? He said he was a communist a couple of times at least. He literally was like Trump, and quite monstrous.

Now we're caught between a Bernie and a Bloomberg nomination against Trump, who is unifying Republicans around his exoneration. I'm sure glad those villains Harris and Booker got sent away so fast and that impeachment thing worked out.

It'll all be aces from here.

[Jace, Extat]

15 minutes ago, Muaddibs_Tapeworm said:

Nominate Bloomberg and half of Bernie's lunatic fans will stay home. Nominate Bernie and the centrist dems will suck it up and vote for him anyway. All I'm saying.

And does anyone really fucking care about communism anymore? What even is that? I don't think it's real.

Blind bats bat balls beyond basic British bugle  bombarding baron bellies. All I'm saying.

[Reny of Storms End]

Another big problem with voter perception of banning fracking is the landowners and the money they receive. I mean around where I am almost everyone who owes land is getting money from the fracking companies every month for the wells. So not only are you gonna have to address loss of jobs, but probably more importantly the loss of thousands of dollars in monthly income for families that don't even work in the fracking industry. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

33 minutes ago, Muaddibs_Tapeworm said:

Nominate Bloomberg and half of Bernie's lunatic fans will stay home. Nominate Bernie and the centrist dems will suck it up and vote for him anyway. All I'm saying.

And does anyone really fucking care about communism anymore? What even is that? I don't think it's real.

Sure they care about it--a lot of people really believe the same things about communism as they believed in the 80s. In fact, while Bernie being a millionaire is the perfect evidence (to me) of what he means by his brand of Democratic Socialism (it's okay to be rich, just not obscenely so), I fear regular voters who fear communism will simultaneously view his wealth as evidence that he is scamming everyone. He needs to be proactive and use his wealth to explain how his views are fundamentally different from their fears, but I don't think he'll do that.

[Fez]

38 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Blind bats bat balls beyond basic British bugle  bombarding baron bellies. All I'm saying.

Maybe we'll get lucky and the coronavirus will kill us all before the election.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

With the caveat that debates often times don’t matter, last night was a complete disaster. Warren was incredible, but it’s too little too late. Sanders was his typical self and made it clear he won’t compromise on anything. He’s going to be the nominee and he’ll be the first to win a ton of states while probably never getting a majority until April. Amy and Pete hate each other, and their spat will cause both of them to miss the 15% requirement in almost every state on Super Tuesday. Biden is a ghost, but his name recognition will carry him a bit. And Bloomberg. JFC!!! You hear about these Wall St. billionaires losing a ton of money on a given day, but we literally watched a man set $400m on fire in under 60 minutes.

If I was a betting man, I’d say Trump wins easily at this point.

[Fragile Bird]

My lord, you don’t pay attention, do you?

[Durckad]

25 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

If I was a betting man, I’d say Trump wins easily at this point.

Not to call you out specifically on this, but at this point in 2016, how sure were you that Trump was going to win the Republican nomination? And if he did, how sure were you that he'd win the election?

I hate trotting this out, but how many people here were hoping for a Trump win in the Republican primary because he'd be so easy for Hillary to beat?

[DMC]

27 minutes ago, Muaddibs_Tapeworm said:

Regarding the old Cold War image of communism from 80s? I don't buy it. I think the people who would wave that flag hate Blue more than they ever hated Red, if you know what I mean.

For anyone age about 50 or over, "the old Cold War image of communism" is a paradigm that's formative to their political perspective.  So, yeah, it still matters to the general electorate, considering how many voters are 50 or older.

30 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

If I was a betting man, I’d say Trump wins easily at this point.

Trump may have a >50% chance of winning right now, but unless something fundamental changes, it is not going to be easy for him to get to 270.  At all.

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

I sure hope Bloomberg wasn’t as bad as you say,

He was far worse, and Warren chewed him up, and raised a whole lot of campaign funds at the same time. The arrogance he radiated on that stage: why am I bothering with these POOR YOKELS.  You don't have my tax returns, he says smugly, because I can't do Turbo Tax, I am so frackin' rich it takes so loooooooooooooooooooooooooong to show how rich I am.

Since you didn't watch it you didn't see what he did try to do to Warren with his NDA -- he even used the word 'consensual' that favorite billionaire abuser's word. He got booed for that, loudly.  He got booed for quite a bit, loudly, as a matter-of-fact. 

And Biden was targeted for a protest right at the end by anti-immigration activists due to his support of Obama's immigration policies.

As much as you all sorts want to think that Bloomie is your great short white savior, he's just the same problem in the end.  Billionaires is gonna billionaire.  Which makes very prosperous white sorts happy, coz they think they are safe coz, you know, Bloomie's not, like, well, actually crazy.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, Durckad said:

Not to call you out specifically on this, but at this point in 2016, how sure were you that Trump was going to win the Republican nomination? And if he did, how sure were you that he'd win the election?

I hate trotting this out, but how many people here were hoping for a Trump win in the Republican primary because he'd be so easy for Hillary to beat?

Lol, I was like the literal lone person here who early on said Trump can win and don’t root for that because he can beat Hillary. Consistently winning pluralities leads to the nomination in the Republican party and it was obvious that Trump was going to drag Clinton into the mud. What was less obvious about 2016 was Clinton’s terrible Midwest strategy.