Jaxom 1974 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 6 hours ago, red snow said: It's almost like the writers of Picard didn't know what the plot of Season 2 Discovery was - or more likely they didn't care (as I'm sure they share writers) They'll take a page from Discovery and end with the enterprise. There'll be some geek-out reveal of the captain - hopefully not just Riker under temporary command. I'm going for Noonan Singh being on said planet and he was a synth all along. Synths don't actually know how to build synths other than the birds and bees method and Data was his attempt at creating inorganic life. I still think the Romulans are massively over-reacting to a past event. Like Picard stated the past does not dictate things will repeat. The Borg and dominion don't mean all wormholes should be closed and collective intelligence should be destroyed either. The Enterprise was my earlier guess also. Though I also like Titan and Riker as a possibility...but anything other than Worf on the bridge of the Enterprise is a show fail... Noonien Singh showing up...that's delving into the rough plot of a trilogy of David Mack novels there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 15, 2020 Author Share Posted March 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said: The Enterprise was my earlier guess also. Though I also like Titan and Riker as a possibility...but anything other than Worf on the bridge of the Enterprise is a show fail... They'd have to either have really good makeup or they'd have to explain why Worf was looking so much older than he should do. Klingons can live to be well over 200, so Worf shouldn't look much older than he did after the events of Nemesis, which clearly isn't the case. Although, that said, the older series could be really inconsistent about this as well. I'm thinking of the Voyager episode where three generations of Klingons had lived and died on that ship headed to the Delta Quadrant, when it only left Klingon space about 100 years earlier. Quite a few of the first generation crew should have still been alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 57 minutes ago, Werthead said: They'd have to either have really good makeup or they'd have to explain why Worf was looking so much older than he should do. Klingons can live to be well over 200, so Worf shouldn't look much older than he did after the events of Nemesis, which clearly isn't the case. Although, that said, the older series could be really inconsistent about this as well. I'm thinking of the Voyager episode where three generations of Klingons had lived and died on that ship headed to the Delta Quadrant, when it only left Klingon space about 100 years earlier. Quite a few of the first generation crew should have still been alive. I also seem to recall two or three original series klingons shows up in DS9 with their original actors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Werthead said: They'd have to either have really good makeup or they'd have to explain why Worf was looking so much older than he should do. Klingons can live to be well over 200, so Worf shouldn't look much older than he did after the events of Nemesis, which clearly isn't the case. Although, that said, the older series could be really inconsistent about this as well. I'm thinking of the Voyager episode where three generations of Klingons had lived and died on that ship headed to the Delta Quadrant, when it only left Klingon space about 100 years earlier. Quite a few of the first generation crew should have still been alive. I'd think the make up wouldnsonthe trick overall...I mean, the prosthetics alone should do most of the heavy lifting, unlike dealing with Spiner aging... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said: I'd think the make up wouldnsonthe trick overall...I mean, the prosthetics alone should do most of the heavy lifting, unlike dealing with Spiner aging... It should cover things quite well and as Captain he probably won't be leaping around and fighting. Were there ever any rumours of him being on set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, red snow said: It should cover things quite well and as Captain he probably won't be leaping around and fighting. Were there ever any rumours of him being on set? He was definitely on set. His signature was spotted on the clacker thing they all singed, but they've denied he's appearing this season. (and Cumberbatch isn't Kahn.) https://www.newsweek.com/star-trek-picard-cast-worf-cameo-michael-dorn-patrick-stewart-not-happening-1459013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 On 3/15/2020 at 9:49 AM, DaveSumm said: So are we to assume that the Zhat Vash didn’t know about Control in Discovery? I assume it was all classified along with Discovery’s existence. Sounds like precisely the kind of thing they’re worried about though. I’m struggling to se show they’ll wrap this up, the Zhat Vash can’t be right and yep, Data’s offspring should all be killed. So there’s gotta be some misunderstanding around the vision that they have, but to explore that, we’ll need to know more about the vision, and how do you satisfyingly answer the question of ‘what’s so awful that if you found out you’d immediately smash your own head in with a rock’? Should we remove all rocks from our surroundings for the finale? 17 hours ago, red snow said: It's almost like the writers of Picard didn't know what the plot of Season 2 Discovery was - or more likely they didn't care (as I'm sure they share writers) I actually think they're intended to pair together as two halves of a whole argument on AI. On the one hand you have a disconnected and disembodied super intelligence. The question of it having life is never even considered, its used as functionally no different as a robot on an assembly line to perform heavy lifting even when the scope of what its doing impacts entire civilizations. This is the mistake the ancient civ made and the same mistake humanity made in DISCO S2 with Control. On the other hand you have synthetic life. It's still grounded in a body, it (should) still be treated as a person, as a form of life in its own right. This is truly synthetic life and should be allowed and defended. To boil it down into the wording that tends to be used when discussing this sort of thematic area - when creating life you have to be careful to never lose sight of giving it humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 hours ago, red snow said: It should cover things quite well and as Captain he probably won't be leaping around and fighting. Were there ever any rumours of him being on set? Michael Dorn and LeVar Burton visited the location where they were filming with Sirtis, Frakes and Stewart and they had a genuine reunion party there. The other castmembers couldn't make it that day (Spiner was around earlier, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 9 hours ago, RumHam said: He was definitely on set. His signature was spotted on the clacker thing they all singed, but they've denied he's appearing this season. (and Cumberbatch isn't Kahn.) https://www.newsweek.com/star-trek-picard-cast-worf-cameo-michael-dorn-patrick-stewart-not-happening-1459013 I find it hard to believe he won't appear in that case. 5 hours ago, karaddin said: I actually think they're intended to pair together as two halves of a whole argument on AI. On the one hand you have a disconnected and disembodied super intelligence. The question of it having life is never even considered, its used as functionally no different as a robot on an assembly line to perform heavy lifting even when the scope of what its doing impacts entire civilizations. This is the mistake the ancient civ made and the same mistake humanity made in DISCO S2 with Control. On the other hand you have synthetic life. It's still grounded in a body, it (should) still be treated as a person, as a form of life in its own right. This is truly synthetic life and should be allowed and defended. To boil it down into the wording that tends to be used when discussing this sort of thematic area - when creating life you have to be careful to never lose sight of giving it humanity. That's an interesting take. Do we know the ancient synthetic doombringers weren't synthetic/capable of humanity? Your idea fits the borg too as they have given up their humanity in exchange for power and safety and are also a destructive force. It works as a nice "trek" message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 22 minutes ago, red snow said: That's an interesting take. Do we know the ancient synthetic doombringers weren't synthetic/capable of humanity? Not yet, but as noted earlier the visions of destruction at minimum share a lot of tone with the Control visions from Discovery so that's my speculation on it for now. I like it because it doesn't even result in casting the Zhat Vash as evil/wrong - just their vigilance is misguided due to the scope of the warning (Admonition) not allowing room for nuance or understanding. Of course it could just be a head canon coming up with something perhaps more satisfying than where the showrunners are taking it. I like you incorporating the Borg into this paradigm as well, I think it fits well. I just find it hard to believe they could possibly have done DISCO S2 focusing on Control as a threat, and then this season with the synthetics being people that deserve to be treated as such without awareness of the potential narrative dissonance between them. And "wherever progress takes you, don't lose your humanity" certainly feels like a "Trek" message as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 @red snow you were close! I still kinda wonder if that could be Lore in makeup. Soong having a son seems weird. And like "good at building robots" is not genetic. So are they going to transfer Picard into a snyth body? Data somehow? Shame Soong Jr. can't just ask Data's creepy Grandfather how he transferred his mind into data that time. I'd complain about how this super secret Romulan organization is able to scramble 218 warbirds but whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 Spoiler "Are we the baddies?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 4 hours ago, RumHam said: Reveal hidden contents @red snow you were close! I still kinda wonder if that could be Lore in makeup. Soong having a son seems weird. And like "good at building robots" is not genetic. So are they going to transfer Picard into a snyth body? Data somehow? Shame Soong Jr. can't just ask Data's creepy Grandfather how he transferred his mind into data that time. I'd complain about how this super secret Romulan organization is able to scramble 218 warbirds but whatever. Spoiler Seems that they're making the other Soji, the earlier model, the new Lore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Spoiler It runs in the family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I'm confused about why some of them have the yellow sheen while their "twins" don't. Am I missing something obvious as i admit i had trouble staying focused in some parts of the episode. The golem seems a bit too obvious a prop and i also feel like the borg need to play a bigger/scarier role. Borg and cubes are supposed to be scary and the thought that 7of9 reactivated one even temporarily should be terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macklunkey Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Really hate Picard being called "JL" by Rafi. I understand that he's had other friendships and professional relationships etc but it just seems so out of place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Macklunkey said: Really hate Picard being called "JL" by Rafi. I understand that he's had other friendships and professional relationships etc but it just seems so out of place. Yeah, that is a bit cringy. Spoiler I also felt that he really would have benefited from having an old crew member with him when he talked about his imminent death. The show tried to establish that Picard and Rafi had a long relationship, but it just hasn't landed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Corvinus85 said: Yeah, that is a bit cringy. Hide contents I also felt that he really would have benefited from having an old crew member with him when he talked about his imminent death. The show tried to establish that Picard and Rafi had a long relationship, but it just hasn't landed yet. I was thinking the same thing. I mean she definitely spent longer resenting him than she ever knew him, or at least served with him. I have a lot of questions I don't expect to be answered next week. Like if Dajh and Soji were sent out to find the truth about the synth ban, why send one of them to the daystrom institute and the other to the borg cube? Maddox worked a daystrom when the ban happened, I don't know why he'd think they would know what happened. And I'm not sure what the cube really had to do with anything other than there were romulans on it. Why erase their memories? wouldn't they be far more effective if they knew what they were doing? I also don't get why Maddox was whining to that evil lady about his lab being destroyed when he had a whole utopian planet with his partner waiting for him? I also wanna go back and complain again about what a missed opportunity the "Seven forms her own collective and takes over the cube" sequence was. The idea of her commanding a drone army and kicking ass is awesome. We could have had a little horror movie where the monster was Seven. But instead she just...pilots the ship and the XB's rise up on their own. Plus Soji's friend and all the other scientists are nowhere to be seen. Really weird choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Oh and another thing, I get that the Zhat Vash really fear androids so it mostly makes sense for them to reprogram some to attack a federation site and convince the federation that synths are evil. But wouldn't it have made far more sense to re-program them to attack Earth? or Vulcan? or anywhere where the fleet meant to save your people from a supernova isn't being constructed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 5 hours ago, red snow said: I'm confused about why some of them have the yellow sheen while their "twins" don't. Am I missing something obvious as i admit i had trouble staying focused in some parts of the episode. The gold tinge and green eyes like data are indications if earlier models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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