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Star Trek Thread: Set Picard to Stun (spoilers)


Werthead

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1 hour ago, RumHam said:

Oh and another thing, I get that the Zhat Vash really fear androids so it mostly makes sense for them to reprogram some to attack a federation site and convince the federation that synths are evil. But wouldn't it have made far more sense to re-program them to attack Earth? or Vulcan? or anywhere where the fleet meant to save your people from a supernova isn't being constructed? 

Mars is where the androids were - presumably manufactured in great numbers precisely because of the large scale ship-building programme. They wouldn't have been happy about the consequences for Romulus, but taking out the synths was more important to them.

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1 hour ago, felice said:

Mars is where the androids were - presumably manufactured in great numbers precisely because of the large scale ship-building programme. They wouldn't have been happy about the consequences for Romulus, but taking out the synths was more important to them.

But they were shown to have had ships, and they hacked the orbital defense platforms. I don't see why they couldn't have flown to earth or hacked the earth platforms? 

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23 minutes ago, RumHam said:

But they were shown to have had ships, and they hacked the orbital defense platforms. I don't see why they couldn't have flown to earth or hacked the earth platforms? 

Do we know the ships were actually piloted by synths? It seems more likely that they were Romulan, and they were able to get in and out quickly because they'd used the synths already present in the shipyards to disable the defences. Earth didn't have enough synths with access to vital systems for that to be a viable strategy, and the true identity of the attackers would almost certainly be uncovered during the battle.

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3 minutes ago, felice said:

Do we know the ships were actually piloted by synths? It seems more likely that they were Romulan, and they were able to get in and out quickly because they'd used the synths already present in the shipyards to disable the defences. Earth didn't have enough synths with access to vital systems for that to be a viable strategy, and the true identity of the attackers would almost certainly be uncovered during the battle.

I guess not. Maybe we'll get some answers in the finale. 

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6 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I think Soong junior made the first models, then Maddox showed up and improved on them, culminating in Soji and Dahj.

So it seems Maddox's murder is a really big deal as only he knew how to make the biological synths. Unless soji possesses this knowledge too.

 

2 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I got the impression they were something in between Data and Soji...

That kind of makes sense as sojo seems more "human" than them but i guess they are "more" than Data.

It still means they've been on that planet for a while for Rios to have his encounter.

Is it truly "first contact" if they were created by humans and only existed for a few decades at most?

What's the admonission going to be? Super borg, the AI from discovery? The discovery from the future? Vyger? I'm guessing we'll see them or will soji stop them

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2 hours ago, red snow said:

What's the admonission going to be? Super borg, the AI from discovery? The discovery from the future? Vyger? I'm guessing we'll see them or will soji stop them

Tying in V'Ger would be interesting, but I'm not sure if they'd lean into that. The idea appears to be an "AI Federation" of machine intelligences. It'd be interesting if they were all previously-established Star Trek AIs (like NOMAD from the original series, V'Ger, etc).

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3 hours ago, Werthead said:

Tying in V'Ger would be interesting, but I'm not sure if they'd lean into that. The idea appears to be an "AI Federation" of machine intelligences. It'd be interesting if they were all previously-established Star Trek AIs (like NOMAD from the original series, V'Ger, etc).

And then tie in the old theory that V'Ger found the Borg homeworld and they altered it to be some sort of data collector for them...?

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8 hours ago, Werthead said:

Tying in V'Ger would be interesting, but I'm not sure if they'd lean into that. The idea appears to be an "AI Federation" of machine intelligences. It'd be interesting if they were all previously-established Star Trek AIs (like NOMAD from the original series, V'Ger, etc).

It'd be a nice continuity thread for sure.

The AI federation suggests all highly evolved AI have no problems stamping out organic intelligence suggesting they aren't very enlightened. But guess that's as a mirror to how the federation/romulans are behaving. Still, you'd hope there'd be some AI that would dissent.

Unless the admonition is a final test to see if you are worthy of joining the AI federation. If you ask for destruction of organics you aren't "worthy". If you ask to be spared or don't ask because you think the punishment of organic life is too severe, you pass and are allowed to join. That sounds more "star trek"

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Patrick Stewart was very solid in the finale. However, despite the galaxy-ending plot and huge fleets brought to bear, the conclusion still felt small.

I would say this show's largest problem is similar to the one of the many problems of the new Star Wars trilogy. A lot of in-universe time passed, and the audience was thrown some major curve balls with little explanation. To be fair, Picard did it better than SW thanks to not hesitating to include flashbacks when needed, as limited as they were. But there is still much more to explore, and I don't wish to be forced to buy books/comic books or whatever to get the greater picture. For all that the story, in the end, was reduced to just a few characters, it wasn't strong because of this. Seeing a dying Picard surrounded by a bunch of largely unknown characters didn't have the emotional impact it should have had. I'm not saying the new characters are bad, they all have some interesting aspects. But we got to see the journey of Picard as he forged lasting bunch with a bunch of characters, Riker, Data, etc. while here we kinda got to see the end. Only his relationship with Soji was building up slowly.

On the other hand, Picard's goodbye scene with Data, and even the brief conversation with Riker were much stronger. 

How will season 2 unfold? Still focusing on the adventures of a small crew with little explanation of the larger on-goings? I hope not. At the end it was mentioned that the synth ban was lifted. That means that it was proven the attack on Mars was caused by the Romulans, so what will the consequences of that be? I'm not sure we'll even see. An ultra-powerful federation of synthetics is out there in the universe. Will we see more of that? Again, shoulder shrug. Why were they still together at the end? Have they formed a merry band of space adventurers to boldly go somewhere? :dunno: To be honest, I am interested, but feeling a bit skeptical.

From a show existence perspective, it makes sense for Picard to be put in an almost exact duplicate of his present body. Stewart is set to return. But from a narrative perspective, it makes less sense. The explanation Soong gave was ok, but they could have just as easily put him in a younger body, and Picard would not have minded. But de-aging is an expensive special effect. 

The one part that annoyed me the most in this episode was the Starflleet armada. For one, it was great to see Riker again, but it made no sense. You get a reservist to command this fleet, and not an active admiral? And all the ships were the same. One of the best parts about Federation vs. anyone in the older shows was to see the plethora of ship classes that often needed to be mustered on short notice to battle the enemy. Here we get 200 carbon copies of the same class, the "Enterprise model T"; no individuality, whatsoever. Crackpot theory: the Federation are now the new Borg. :P My advice to the showrunners - tone it down on the giant fleets; more is not better; quality over quantity.

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DS9 did the "big fleet" thing really well, because it was something we weren't used to seeing, and they only used it in a few episodes. Modern SF series have gone a bit overboard with it, especially when you remember in TOS that having four or five Federation starships in one force was considered a big fleet and in early TNG forty ships was a formidable armada.

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I actually just watched the "fleet" scenes because I wanted to see a 'modern' Starfleet vessel in action and oh my god, it looked so bad I can't even fathom what they were thinking. So lazy that they just copypasted the same crappy design for both fleets hundreds of times in perfect unison. So artificial, so superficial and somehow it was exactly how Redletter Media joked about them having twenty bazillion ships on screen for the sheer heck of having big impressive numbers.

This whole show is just one big fucking joke, isn't it?

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26 minutes ago, Toth said:

I actually just watched the "fleet" scenes because I wanted to see a 'modern' Starfleet vessel in action and oh my god, it looked so bad I can't even fathom what they were thinking. So lazy that they just copypasted the same crappy design for both fleets hundreds of times in perfect unison. So artificial, so superficial and somehow it was exactly how Redletter Media joked about them having twenty bazillion ships on screen for the sheer heck of having big impressive numbers.

I'm glad the battle didn't take place, my eyes would have been seared by the excessively bright lights. And they forgot that ships need to orbit planets. All of those ships were way too static.

26 minutes ago, Toth said:

This whole show is just one big fucking joke, isn't it?

I wouldn't go to that extreme. I'll watch season 2.

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*sigh*

After really solid episodes 7,8,9, they just didn't stick the landing...

The Romulans being the bad guys remained ridiculous and any other race would have served. 

What was the ultimate point of the Borg?  Other than some things to do with Picard's history?

The fleet...Riker was good, his bit with Picard, as mentioned above, was a highlight.  But they really really really overdid it with the sheer volume of ships. And the lack of any of the ships being different was a downer.

Soong apparently was a red herring?  He seemed to be poised to be someone significant in episode 9, but he rolled over and turned out to be benevolent in the end.

There is still no deep connection to any of these characters, other than the old guard. I mean, Jurati is off the hook for murder now?  It was nice Seven seemed to be sticking around, but is it enough...?

Where does this go?  I realize they probably wanted thing wrapped up in a bow overall, but why not a couple bread crumbs in case a second season does go forward...?

 

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God that uniform fleet at the climax was awful. 

I gave the show the benefit of the doubt, I wanted to like it. but overall I did not. Parts were good of course. It was too laser focused on the romulans and synths for my liking. I would have loved to learn more about the state of the galaxy in 2399.

The focus on melee combat seemed out of place in a world where people have phasers.  

Don't get me wrong I'll resubscribe for season two, but I thought it was really disappointing over all.

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The focus on melee combat seemed out of place in a world where people have phasers.  

This is an odd complaint, given the prevalence of the Klingons with their swords (even running into combat against enemies with phasers) and various forms of unarmed combat in the shows over the years. The Romulans having a special sword-wielding subculture feels a bit corny but they're not exactly alone in this over years.

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