Jump to content
Werthead

Star Trek Thread: Set Picard to Stun (spoilers)

Recommended Posts

Still engaged in my Voyager rewatch. Just got to the Dark Frontier two-parter in Season 5, so two-thirds done with the series at this point. My previous position that Voyager is the weakest overall of the various series remains intact, although it has had several very good episodes and numerous "okay but forgettable" ones. That doesn't make up for the sheer volume of "crushingly boring" and "this is actually shit" instalments. Yikes. The show relies very heavily on Robert Picardo and later Jeri Ryan to do the heavy lifting on the acting front, and the writing doesn't really pick up until Season 4 when Bryan Fueller comes on board (and to a lesser extent in Season 5, when Michael Taylor joins the team).

There are a few more general things I like, such as the recurring tertiary crewmembers and the vague attempts at continuity, although it's pretty basic stuff. But overall this is very weaksauce after TNG and DS9, and it lacks at least the attempts that Enterprise made to course-correct and tell bigger stories.

Edited by Werthead

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are so many episodes of Voyager that I've seen - many more than once - and scarcely remember. I'm thinking of some of the dark stretches of the first three seasons especially, stuff like Ex Post Facto or Rise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm fond of Voyager cause it was on at like 11pm when I couldn't sleep as a kid. but it is terrible.

I think it's main problem is immediately minimizing Chakotay and the Maquis. Like they were still trying to honor the "no interpersonal conflict" doctrine. But a TNG clone where the first officer, chief engineer, and half the crew were not really starfleet and were nursing the resentment of starfleet officers who wanted to say fuck it return home at all costs could have been really interesting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, haltingly screaming "THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS"  is my new goto response when I encounter a trump supporter in polite conversation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, RumHam said:

I'm fond of Voyager cause it was on at like 11pm when I couldn't sleep as a kid. but it is terrible.

I think it's main problem is immediately minimizing Chakotay and the Maquis. Like they were still trying to honor the "no interpersonal conflict" doctrine. But a TNG clone where the first officer, chief engineer, and half the crew were not really starfleet and were nursing the resentment of starfleet officers who wanted to say fuck it return home at all costs could have been really interesting. 

It's really easy to see what Ronald D moore would have done with the premise of the show and why he left when he was informed they wanted to do something more "trek". I guess we at least got BSG but imagine how much fun BSG but with Borg and loads more aliens would have been. Janeway would have been truly awesome too.

My TNG rewatch is making me appreciate just how good this show was and how timeless a lot of the stories are. Although there are occasional mis-steps like the holodeck episode where dwight schultz is having sex with holo-versions of his real-life workmates that seem very wrong in today's world (and probably was back when it originally aired). Given how technology tends to be driven by porn (or has a very symbiotic relationship) the episode was probably on the money but I think people's reactions to having their image used in that way would be far stronger and perhaps even breaking a law. There'd at least be laws/technology preventing people from using someone else's image without express consent and I'd imagine actors/celebrities would only allow their IP to be used for monetary value and with set parameters. So the only way someone could misuse the holodeck would be to hack it and that could be considered criminal. That said, La Forge and Riker should at least knock or disengage the program before wandering into someone's holodeck session. Surely am introverted loner who spends all his time in the holodeck should trigger the "knock and pause before entering" routine that parents are familiar with when entering teenager's bedroom?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, red snow said:

It's really easy to see what Ronald D moore would have done with the premise of the show and why he left when he was informed they wanted to do something more "trek". I guess we at least got BSG but imagine how much fun BSG but with Borg and loads more aliens would have been. Janeway would have been truly awesome too.

My TNG rewatch is making me appreciate just how good this show was and how timeless a lot of the stories are. Although there are occasional mis-steps like the holodeck episode where dwight schultz is having sex with holo-versions of his real-life workmates that seem very wrong in today's world (and probably was back when it originally aired). Given how technology tends to be driven by porn (or has a very symbiotic relationship) the episode was probably on the money but I think people's reactions to having their image used in that way would be far stronger and perhaps even breaking a law. There'd at least be laws/technology preventing people from using someone else's image without express consent and I'd imagine actors/celebrities would only allow their IP to be used for monetary value and with set parameters. So the only way someone could misuse the holodeck would be to hack it and that could be considered criminal. That said, La Forge and Riker should at least knock or disengage the program before wandering into someone's holodeck session. Surely am introverted loner who spends all his time in the holodeck should trigger the "knock and pause before entering" routine that parents are familiar with when entering teenager's bedroom?

 

 

My favorite part of that episode is holographic wesley, just sitting in the background constantly eating pie. Then his hologram mother implies Barclay likes to spank him. Yeah, I would have locked the door. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, RumHam said:

My favorite part of that episode is holographic wesley, just sitting in the background constantly eating pie. Then his hologram mother implies Barclay likes to spank him. Yeah, I would have locked the door. 

Jeez, i must have blanked out that connection. It's a creepy episode that's for sure. Come to think of it there was another one a few episodes earlier where fake picard was seducing dr crusher that was also a bit wrong too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, RumHam said:

I'm fond of Voyager cause it was on at like 11pm when I couldn't sleep as a kid. but it is terrible.

I think it's main problem is immediately minimizing Chakotay and the Maquis. Like they were still trying to honor the "no interpersonal conflict" doctrine. But a TNG clone where the first officer, chief engineer, and half the crew were not really starfleet and were nursing the resentment of starfleet officers who wanted to say fuck it return home at all costs could have been really interesting. 

Stargate Universe was often unfairly compared to Voyager (and BSG). Your comment here makes me thing how unjust this is, given that SGU did develop an interpersonal conflict out of even less than the premise Voyager had with the Maquis. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/18/2020 at 12:44 AM, RumHam said:

I'm fond of Voyager cause it was on at like 11pm when I couldn't sleep as a kid. but it is terrible.

I think it's main problem is immediately minimizing Chakotay and the Maquis. Like they were still trying to honor the "no interpersonal conflict" doctrine. But a TNG clone where the first officer, chief engineer, and half the crew were not really starfleet and were nursing the resentment of starfleet officers who wanted to say fuck it return home at all costs could have been really interesting. 

I watched it pretty faithfully throughout its run. But it could have been so much more. I don't know if the Maquis stuff always worked so well in the first season, but at least it added an interesting dynamic. Then it just disappeared - would have been a lot better if a character like Seska had not turned out to be a Cardassian agent - having that conflict around on the ship would have been much better and more interesting. The first two seasons also suffered at the time (and especially now) with the worst alien villains of all - the Kazon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PICARD:

Well, that was awesome. A bit pulpy, but great fun.

Could have done without the graphic opening scenes, but I'm squeamish. Glad they killed him off, simply because the original actor is an insufferable... never mind. (Bonus: I doubt this Seven is going to end up with a certain piece of cardboard after all...)

Elnor is a hoot. "Are we still pretending?" And Picard's tone when he replied, "No, Elnor!"

Younger Deanna Troi lookalike was deliciously evil. BTW, was it my imagination or did she and Seven have a thing back then?

Seven was even better than I expected. She and Picard are a dream team; too bad she's already left. That final dialogue about regaining their humanity!
"All of it?" - "No."

Would have loved to get a glimpse of Quark. (I am currently doing a DS9 rewatch. It really holds up well.)

This was the first time that I really "felt" Rios and Jurati. Still a bit iffy on Raffi, something in the acting feels off to me.

I'm also not sure that we really needed the scenes with her son and his wife, but I didn't mind either.

We knew that Jurati had been turned by Oh, but I didn't see that coming... A spectacular ending. Of course you have to wnder if she now tries to kill off the crew, one by one...

This episode worked perfectly for me. It helped that there were none of these Borg cube scenes...

I'm sure there will be many rants about how this is not Trek, but I'm easy that way!

FINALLY,  they engaged!

Edited by Mindwalker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

PICARD:

Well, that was awesome. A bit pulpy, but great fun.

Could have done without the graphic opening scenes, but I'm squeamish. Glad they killed him off, simply because the original actor is an insufferable... never mind. (Bonus: I doubt this Seven is going to end up with a certain piece of cardboard after all...)

Elnor is a hoot. "Are we still pretending?" And Picard's tone when he replied, "No, Elnor!"

Younger Deanna Troi lookalike was deliciously evil. BTW, was it my imagination or did she and Seven have a thing back then?

Seven was even better than I expected. She and Picard are a dream team; too bad she's already left. That final dialogue about regaining their humanity!
"All of it?" - "No."

Would have loved to get a glimpse of Quark. (I am currently doing a DS9 rewatch. It really holds up well.)

This was the first time that I really "felt" Rios and Jurati. Still a bit iffy on Raffi, something in the acting feels off to me.

I'm also not sure that we really needed the scenes with her son and his wife, but I didn't mind either.

We knew that Jurati had been turned by Oh, but I didn't see that coming... A spectacular ending. Of course you have to wnder if she now tries to kill off the crew, one by one...

This episode worked perfectly for me. It helped that there were none of these Borg cube scenes...

I'm sure there will be many rants about how this is not Trek, but I'm easy that way!

FINALLY,  they engaged!

I picked up the vibe that her and Seven were a they at one point. I have a feeling that we haven't seen the last of Seven to be honest. I loved the inclusion of a Romulan with the traditional hairstyle. I liked the mention of Quark, LOVED the pimp suit Rios was wearing. The innocence of Elnor is endearing. One of my favorite parts was the flashback to the baking cookies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

I'm sure there will be many rants about how this is not Trek, but I'm easy that way!

Insert rant about how this is not Trek.

Seriously, what is this though? I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. This whole episode I was just sitting there with the most confused expression ever. Except for the horror opener because that one made me so uncomfortable I opened a tab and read stuff until it ended. And then realized that they had Seven nonsensically killing Icheb AFTER rescuing him for no reason whatsoever except cheap attempt to invoke emotions. Morons.

So... really, what is this? So there is this person played by Jeri Ryan who is this weird revenge-driven texas ranger rambo thing. Is this miserable thing the future anyone envisioned for Seven? Seriously?

Then there is weird bar casino that floods incoming ships with cringe-worthy childish hologram ads and forces main characters to dress like pimps that somehow is the face of this weird Borg implant blackmarket people who have Maddox and deal with the Tal Shiar for no fucking reason except to tie them into the main story... How the fuck do they come up with this? Just writing this down makes my head spin. Do the writers have some kind of box where they put notes with plot ideas in and then draw five of them at once and then have to haphazardly combine them? Is this the game they are playing?

I honestly don't know why I am sticking around anymore. This is turning Discovery level bad really fast and I am already at the first stages of it making me feel horrible... The only person I care a tiny bit about is the captain and for crying out loud I still haven't bothered to memorize even his name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Toth said:

Insert rant about how this is not Trek.

Seriously, what is this though? I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. This whole episode I was just sitting there with the most confused expression ever. Except for the horror opener because that one made me so uncomfortable I opened a tab and read stuff until it ended. And then realized that they had Seven nonsensically killing Icheb AFTER rescuing him for no reason whatsoever except cheap attempt to invoke emotions. Morons.

So... really, what is this? So there is this person played by Jeri Ryan who is this weird revenge-driven texas ranger rambo thing. Is this miserable thing the future anyone envisioned for Seven? Seriously?

Then there is weird bar casino that floods incoming ships with cringe-worthy childish hologram ads and forces main characters to dress like pimps that somehow is the face of this weird Borg implant blackmarket people who have Maddox and deal with the Tal Shiar for no fucking reason except to tie them into the main story... How the fuck do they come up with this? Just writing this down makes my head spin. Do the writers have some kind of box where they put notes with plot ideas in and then draw five of them at once and then have to haphazardly combine them? Is this the game they are playing?

I honestly don't know why I am sticking around anymore. This is turning Discovery level bad really fast and I am already at the first stages of it making me feel horrible... The only person I care a tiny bit about is the captain and for crying out loud I still haven't bothered to memorize even his name.

It seems to me that you've been ready to hate this from the start, and are getting exactly what you were expecting.

Seven killed the guy in the beginning because he was already on his way to the beyond, and he asked her for a mercy killing.

It's not the first time ST characters dressed in silly outfits, and the reason for this was clearly given. Sure, the whole planet made me think more of Star Wars and Mass Effect than Star Trek, but I don't particularly begrudge the choice. Sorry it's not working out for you.

Discovery, especially season 2, was riddled with plot holes often caused by the need to move the plot along at a neck-break speed. This show has its issues, too, but it's not the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked it.

I watched the latest two episodes in a row and the whole thing was a mix of so many things that I too have no idea what I've been watching. But I liked it.

Ir almost seems that the writers are just trying to ensure the actors have fun and the plot is kinda secondary. Every one had their moment to shine, though some aren't exactly necessary (I didn't see the point of Raffie's story).

This time Steward/Picard is not the only one shining. Seven, Elnor, and Jurati were all fantastic in their own ways. I found kickass Seven really enjoyable, Elnor's candor touching, and Jurati finally makes sense as a character.

In just two episodes we somehow got a space battle, a sword fight (or two?), and a few phaser (/disruptor?) shots. Not bad.
Also, and paradoxically (given what I said before) it seems there will be a decent intrigue in the end. It's just not the main focus of the show yet. I did read a couple theories about it here and there though, so it's at least intriguing enough for people to think about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/18/2020 at 2:14 PM, Corvinus said:

Stargate Universe was often unfairly compared to Voyager (and BSG). Your comment here makes me thing how unjust this is, given that SGU did develop an interpersonal conflict out of even less than the premise Voyager had with the Maquis. 

I loved Stargate: Universe. It was light decades better than Star Trek: Voyager.

Edited by Ser Scot A Ellison

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems that the point was of Rafi's side trek to see her son was to allude to more of what Maddox also alluded to: that Mars was a conspiracy. 

Was her son's wife, I assume wife, a Romulan ornament Vulcan? I can't tell the difference any more...

I hope Seven is back for another episode or two, because otherwise her appearance feels like nothing more than fan service, no matter how great the performance, which was great...

And if the show was going to do fan service, even while telling its story, that they should have surrounded Picard with a few more Trek veterans...skip Rios and have it be a disillusioned Tom Paris or Chakotay, have the Rafi character be someone from the old Enterprise D like Ensign Rager...keep Jurati, but have the Space Elf Ninja guy be Worf's kid instead...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure Seven is going to come back. There is also a Borg story going on here, and she will be interested in that.

Does anybody else get a strong Babylon 5 vibe with the whole rangers thing here?

As for this not being Stark Trek:

It is actually less silly than most of the TOS and TNG nonsense. I wondered for a moment whether this super commerce planet made sense ... and then I remembered the Orion slave girls, the Ferengi, and the company Ezri's family was running back in DS9.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Corvinus said:

It seems to me that you've been ready to hate this from the start, and are getting exactly what you were expecting. 

Seven killed the guy in the beginning because he was already on his way to the beyond, and he asked her for a mercy killing.

It's not the first time ST characters dressed in silly outfits, and the reason for this was clearly given. Sure, the whole planet made me think more of Star Wars and Mass Effect than Star Trek, but I don't particularly begrudge the choice. Sorry it's not working out for you.

Discovery, especially season 2, was riddled with plot holes often caused by the need to move the plot along at a neck-break speed. This show has its issues, too, but it's not the same.

Yeah sure... I just want to hate it because I like to hate things... Believe me when I tell you I wanted to give it a chance. But come on, WHY is this called Star Trek? Why is this sorry ass dude called Picard and why is this retarded texas ranger called Seven? Neither of them act anything like their characters. Whether I like it or not, these idiots force me to accept that this depressingly nihilistic vision of the characters and the future altogether is canon, is the future of Star Trek. That The best has already happened and now Star Trek is just people cursing, being racist and angsty and acting over the top irrational.

Picard is all Luke Skywalker hiding on a fucking island drinking blue milk all over again... And rambo Seven is... I don't know what that is, but clearly not Seven. It's all just things happening because the writers want them to happen. They are just using the Star Trek name and actors to cash in on nostalgia and it's all so depressing...

When comes the next season of The Orville?

Edited by Toth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't imagine what in the history of these threads over the last couple if years could have given people the impression you'd already decided you were going to hate it.On a more sincere note, I don't understand why you are still watching it because you don't just not enjoy it, it actively lowers your feelings about something you love. Break the loop.

Spoiler


23 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

Younger Deanna Troi lookalike was deliciously evil. BTW, was it my imagination or did she and Seven have a thing back then?

Yeah that was pushing the edge of subtext, dunno why they don't just make it text now they can though.

 

 

Edited by karaddin
Fair request from Relic, moving my small part into spoiler box

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...