Star Trek Thread: Set Picard to Stun (spoilers)

[red snow]

7 hours ago, karaddin said:

@red snow Hugh said he was going to purge the information but also hide the room. If Elnor kills all the Romulans that show up then I think it stays secret - I got the impression it's a surveillance dead spot as well so it won't be possible to tell what happened other than someone with a sword killed a bunch of Romulans. Ideally Hugh can say they got attacked and he didn't see what happened to Picard and stays free, while Elnor has to hide in the cube until the badges flash green.

I wasn't annoyed by the drones in Disco as I took the difference as simply being down to what they can show - drones seemed a much more realistic projection of where our tech is going and also makes for a more engaging visual battle. That said if we see fighting between actual Star Fleet major vessels in Picard without the drones then yeah I'll be wanting explanations. I guess they didn't use them in S1 Disco either, so maybe they are going to link that into Control/AI or something.

I think elnor ensuring the tech isn't found is more useful than protecting Picard but both objectives are served.

What would be even smarter would be to have Rios go somewhere other than the rendezvous (the romulans will follow him).

The use of drones makes complete sense based on our tech and i guess there can be exceptions where our current technology appears to be ahead of starfleet. If we ever encounter intelligent alien life I'd expect future shows to reference them - continuity be damned!

Like you said, i think drones can be explained away by AI/control issues and that organic control is simply more reliable in a future where automated machines are easily hacked. I mean, if a planet's worth of cyborgs can be hacked i imagine drones are easy.

As for appearing in episodes of Picard, I'd expect rios' ship to have some given the minimal crew but it should also be illegal to have weaponised drones. So we will have to wait and see whether any battleships appear in future.

[RumHam]

One of the better episodes. 

Really didn't like that they gave Riker and Troi a dead kid who could have been easily cured if android brains weren't banned. It was unnecessary to tie their past tragedy into the AI ban. It was also ridiculous because why wouldn't you just make a simple positronic brain not hooked up to a body (or any kinda wifi like network) and incubate the cure in that?

After all the creative problem solving they did on TNG it's just super odd to me that Picard resigned over Romulus and Riker stayed on after the Federation practically murdered his son by denying him treatment that wouldn't have put anyone at risk. 

Glad to see Seven is coming back.

[sifth]

Was really liking this episode, until they chose to violently kill another character. Looks like this new Trek is taking some pointers from Abrams Star Wars films, when it comes to violently killing established characters.

[Jaxom 1974]

Yup. Best episode yet by leaps and bounds. It had the heart that was just not fully there as if yet.

Maybe that's my desire for more ties to what's come before, but I want to believe that a good story doesn't mean I need all the call backs in the world to satisfy me, that I just need to know the writers know what came first. The feeling of lack of it is in stark contrast to the over saturation of it that was Star Wars Episodes VII and IX...something I still fail against.  Weird. 

But there was something about this episode where it actually felt like there was a beating heart within the show.

[Werthead]

I saw a few reviews that if the whole 10 hours had been just Picard visiting old friends and enjoying wine and homemade pizza, that would have been fine.

Okay episode, although it drives home that the villains (semi-generic Romulans, except they are unusually attractive) are really not that interesting. Interesting note that Commodore Oh really is Vulcan and not Romulan (Romulans can't mind meld). Also somewhat bizarre that their tracking device stops working if the recipient goes into a coma. Why is that a thing?

Riker ordering the shields up around the house in full "command voice" was cool. He's still got it. No sign of the Riker Manoeuvre though.

[Impmk2]

4 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Also somewhat bizarre that their tracking device stops working if the recipient goes into a coma. Why is that a thing?

I assumed it was the uranium compound she injected herself with which blocked the tracking - the coma was just an unavoidable side effect.

[Jaxom 1974]

On 3/6/2020 at 5:15 AM, Werthead said:

I saw a few reviews that if the whole 10 hours had been just Picard visiting old friends and enjoying wine and homemade pizza, that would have been fine.

Okay episode, although it drives home that the villains (semi-generic Romulans, except they are unusually attractive) are really not that interesting. Interesting note that Commodore Oh really is Vulcan and not Romulan (Romulans can't mind meld). Also somewhat bizarre that their tracking device stops working if the recipient goes into a coma. Why is that a thing?

Riker ordering the shields up around the house in full "command voice" was cool. He's still got it. No sign of the Riker Manoeuvre though.

Yet another knock against the use of Romulans to tell this story.  Use a different species and nothing actually changes, particularly if it is one we know, but not much...you can still have warrior nuns, a borg cube, sudden, unknown hatred for synthetic life...all of it, without creating dull, seemingly lifeless (yet unusually attractive) antagonists...

Also, a friend posited that they throw a wrench in things by having Riker called back to active duty to chase down Picard, since they made sure to mention he was on the reserve lost still...I actually don't buy it, but I do think the Enterprise shows up in the finale because "reasons"...

[RumHam]

On 3/6/2020 at 6:15 AM, Werthead said:

Interesting note that Commodore Oh really is Vulcan and not Romulan (Romulans can't mind meld).

I still think she's Romulan. Is it actually established anywhere that they can't meld? Would they care if it was? 

[Lord Varys]

I don't think it would make sense for Romulans to not be able to mind-meld. They and Vulcans are, more or less, the same species. They have crucial philosophical and cultural differences, but they are not distinctly different species.

I still think Oh would be a Vulcan, though, considering I find it completely unbelievable that a Romulan would ever be allowed to become head of Starfleet security ... unless, of course, she was a Romulan posing as a Vulcan.

But I expect the Vulcans and the Romulans to know the why behind the anti-AI thing there, so I expect Oh to have agreed to help the Romulan agents for her own reasons. In fact, I think as much was implied in the talk between the Romulan siblings earlier in the show.

As for the tracking device - could be that it was biotech she was trying to kill with the poison, or that the device, being biotech, needed the infected body to function 'within normal parameters' to generate and sent a signal. This must have been pretty far-out tracking technology for the good guys not being able to catch on.

[RumHam]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

... unless, of course, she was a Romulan posing as a Vulcan.

Right, that's what I thought we were all assuming. Like that ambassador from TNG. 

[Lord Varys]

2 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Right, that's what I thought we were all assuming. Like that ambassador from TNG. 

I'd find that a little bit repetitive since we already had the Romulan girl pose as a human Starfleet officer, so that would be pretty odd. Even more so in light of the fact that the Federation ended up not helping the Romulans back then.

But sure, that's a possibility, although I think they might decide this 'Romulans and Vulcans are secretly working together' plot we already have back in the 4th season of Enterprise (which I really liked and which really made sense of this whole 'the Vulcans aren't really logical and enlightened telepathic fellows' plot that was an important element throughout the entire show).

[RumHam]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd find that a little bit repetitive since we already had the Romulan girl pose as a human Starfleet officer, so that would be pretty odd. Even more so in light of the fact that the Federation ended up not helping the Romulans back then.

But sure, that's a possibility, although I think they might decide this 'Romulans and Vulcans are secretly working together' plot we already have back in the 4th season of Enterprise (which I really liked and which really made sense of this whole 'the Vulcans aren't really logical and enlightened telepathic fellows' plot that was an important element throughout the entire show).

Well the show is a bit repetitive, isn't it? Data already had a daughter, we already saw older Picard leaving his vineyard to go on one last mission, etc

[Lord Varys]

2 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Well the show is a bit repetitive, isn't it? Data already had a daughter, we already saw older Picard leaving his vineyard to go on one last mission, etc

True enough.

[karaddin]

I haven't compared the visions, but is there any chance the vision of AI destruction is actually the same one Spock had in Discovery which has been passed on between Vulcans? Or can the vision not be given wholly, only shared by the original person?

[Denvek]

I think she is a real Vulcan, but that the Zhatt Vash predates the Romulan-Vulcan split and has members from both species.

[Werthead]

17 hours ago, RumHam said:

I still think she's Romulan. Is it actually established anywhere that they can't meld? Would they care if it was? 

The Romulans left Vulcan before Surak began developing Vulcan mental abilities that including their psionic talents. It's been a tenet of the canon that Romulans do not possess the mental discipline necessary to develop psionic abilities, including mind melds, and would not do so, since defying Surak's teachings is kind of the Romulan thing.

Mind melding also requires total suspension of emotion (so it can't be done during pon farr), as it would risk severe neurological damage to both parties, including the Pa'nar Syndrome that T'Pol suffered from after being forcibly melded by an emotionally unstable Vulcan during Enterprise.

 

Quote

 

I think she is a real Vulcan, but that the Zhatt Vash predates the Romulan-Vulcan split and has members from both species.

 

 

This is more credible.

[RumHam]

12 hours ago, karaddin said:

I haven't compared the visions, but is there any chance the vision of AI destruction is actually the same one Spock had in Discovery which has been passed on between Vulcans? Or can the vision not be given wholly, only shared by the original person?

Actually according to Memory Alpha some of the same footage from Discovery season 2 was used there. But Star Trek has reused footage before to save money. The same Bird of Prey explodes two or three times across the TOS movies. 

[Red Tiger]

17 hours ago, RumHam said:

Well the show is a bit repetitive, isn't it? Data already had a daughter, we already saw older Picard leaving his vineyard to go on one last mission, etc

To add to that, the Romulan sister keeps reminding her brother "don't fall in love with the mark" almost every episode.

[RumHam]

The synopsis makes it sound like we'll get a lot of answers next episode:

Quote

When devastating truths behind the Mars attack are revealed, Picard realizes just how far many will go to preserve secrets stretching back generations, all while the La Sirena crew grapples with secrets and revelations of their own. Narissa directs her guards to capture Elnor, setting off an unexpected chain of events on the Borg cube.

And then the two-part (a week apart) finale is called Et In Arcadia Ego so I'm not sure what to make of that. 

Quote

The translation of the phrase is "Even in Arcadia, there am I". The usual interpretation is that "I" refers to Death, and "Arcadia" means an utopian land.

 

[RumHam]

 

Ugh of course Rios's baggage is android related.  I'm not really liking the hand to hand/sword combat either. They have phasers how is Elnor not dead. Seven was great though, and I like that she knew Hugh. But what did she really do by connecting to the cube? I feel like they skipped an action scene of the drones forcing the romulans off the cube.

oh and I'm so glad the doctor poisoned herself to stop the tracker only for the romulan to...continue to track them somehow.