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Werthead

Star Trek Thread: Set Picard to Stun (spoilers)

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3 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

How will season 2 unfold? Still focusing on the adventures of a small crew with little explanation of the larger on-goings? I hope not. At the end it was mentioned that the synth ban was lifted. That means that it was proven the attack on Mars was caused by the Romulans, so what will the consequences of that be? I'm not sure we'll even see.

I think we saw the consequences: "Oh" out of Starfleet, Synth ban dropped and the Romulans backing down. But Starfleet pointedly did not take the opportunity to destroy a whole bunch of Romulan warships, instead getting the whole synth/Zhat Vash thing in the open.

Disappointed with Soji though, going through with the call to the intergalactic biocides even after Sutra was exposed. Should have considered other options far earlier.

I guess Narek will be back in S2, whatever that season will be about.

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8 minutes ago, Werthead said:

 

This is an odd complaint, given the prevalence of the Klingons with their swords (even running into combat against enemies with phasers) and various forms of unarmed combat in the shows over the years. The Romulans having a special sword-wielding subculture feels a bit corny but they're not exactly alone in this over years.

I haven't re-watched DS9 in a bit, so maybe I'm wrong. but I don't remember the klingons taking on enemies armed with phasers with their blades. on TNG at least they mostly used them to fight each other. I dunno that they even had the blades on the original show? 

Anyway it's not just Elnor taking out multiple armed guards, it's also like Seven and Narissa's final fistfight. It's just not interesting to me and coming off re-watching TNG the fancy choreography is jarring. I miss the old "clasp your hands together and bash them on the back" maneuver! 

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12 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I haven't re-watched DS9 in a bit, so maybe I'm wrong. but I don't remember the klingons taking on enemies armed with phasers with their blades. on TNG at least they mostly used them to fight each other. I dunno that they even had the blades on the original show?

One instance I recall is the Klingon attack on DS9, when a large number of them were attacking phaser wielding Bajorans and humans (and the odd Cardassian) with bat'lets.

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39 minutes ago, Wouter said:

One instance I recall is the Klingon attack on DS9, when a large number of them were attacking phaser wielding Bajorans and humans (and the odd Cardassian) with bat'lets.

Well that's fucking stupid

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How did the Romulan sister survive the EBs to begin with...?

 

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1 hour ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

How did the Romulan sister survive the EBs to begin with...?

 

She teleported away, you could see the effect as they swarmed her. I guess she just site to site transported to another spot on the cube? 

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8 hours ago, Wouter said:

Disappointed with Soji though, going through with the call to the intergalactic biocides even after Sutra was exposed.

 

Did she actually get told about it? As I recall Soong just quietly disables her without telling the rest of the androids she'd manipulated them, which was a bit weird.

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11 minutes ago, felice said:

Did she actually get told about it? As I recall Soong just quietly disables her without telling the rest of the androids she'd manipulated them, which was a bit weird.

So much of this shows writing was a bit weird. I'll ask again, why was maddox on freecloud begging for a new lab? Why was Data left to exist in a simulation when they could have built him a body? Why was Soji sent to the cube to solve the mystery of the synth ban? 

the synth ban never made any sense to begin with, obviously they were reprogrammed to attack mars.

But just imagine your Will Riker for a second. You're told your kid has to die because positronic brains are too dangerous. They can't even grow one in a lab to cure your son's terminal illness. (which he apparently contracted during the 14 year ban on the thing that could easily cure it)

For some reason they can't just make an air gapped synth head and cure him and all those like him because that would make to much sense. 

But then instead of being disgusted with the organization that forced your son to die for no reason, you come out of semi-retirement to lead the armada in the finale. Fine. Whatever. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, RumHam said:

So much of this shows writing was a bit weird. I'll ask again, why was maddox on freecloud begging for a new lab? Why was Data left to exist in a simulation when they could have built him a body? Why was Soji sent to the cube to solve the mystery of the synth ban? 

the synth ban never made any sense to begin with, obviously they were reprogrammed to attack mars.

But just imagine your Will Riker for a second. You're told your kid has to die because positronic brains are too dangerous. They can't even grow one in a lab to cure your son's terminal illness. (which he apparently contracted during the 14 year ban on the thing that could easily cure it)

For some reason they can't just make an air gapped synth head and cure him and all those like him because that would make to much sense. 

But then instead of being disgusted with the organization that forced your son to die for no reason, you come out of semi-retirement to lead the armada in the finale. Fine. Whatever. 

 

 

The word you're looking for is terrible. Not weird.

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5 hours ago, felice said:

Did she actually get told about it? As I recall Soong just quietly disables her without telling the rest of the androids she'd manipulated them, which was a bit weird.

That's indeed bad writing. Picard was supposed to be the one to get through to her, hence Soong and Rios and co couldn't make too much of an effort to do likewise.

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Ohh boy that finale was.... not good.

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On 3/26/2020 at 8:38 PM, Jaxom 1974 said:

*sigh*

After really solid episodes 7,8,9, they just didn't stick the landing...

The Romulans being the bad guys remained ridiculous and any other race would have served. 

What was the ultimate point of the Borg?  Other than some things to do with Picard's history?

The fleet...Riker was good, his bit with Picard, as mentioned above, was a highlight.  But they really really really overdid it with the sheer volume of ships. And the lack of any of the ships being different was a downer.

Soong apparently was a red herring?  He seemed to be poised to be someone significant in episode 9, but he rolled over and turned out to be benevolent in the end.

There is still no deep connection to any of these characters, other than the old guard. I mean, Jurati is off the hook for murder now?  It was nice Seven seemed to be sticking around, but is it enough...?

Where does this go?  I realize they probably wanted thing wrapped up in a bow overall, but why not a couple bread crumbs in case a second season does go forward...?

 

Sums up my feelings pretty well especially how no-one seems that bothered that jurati commited cold-blooded murder.

I'd like a military strategist to confirm/speculate but is lining your armada up in a Block the best formation? Instinctively my feeling is that it isn't if only from a "it must be tricky to fire from the back without friendly fire". Also if it was a defensive thing then surely you'd have a different class of ship in the front lines (more armoured or expendable) but they all appeared to be exactly the same. Where were the smaller defiant style ships or the little rectangular ships? Why are there no drone style support ships/weapons as seen in discovery? This is where they could have explained their absence saying AI weaponry isn't secure especially when near an AI colony and potential encursion from an AI empire. 

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Thought I'd make my specific thoughts on the episode separate otherwise it becomes a very long post about lots of different things.

The final episode was a big let down for me with lots of logic-breaking elements introduced and very major threads left unresolved.

So whenever any of the synths feel like it they can summon genocidal tentacle robots from the matrix? Given they were quite keen on the idea prior to a Picard pep talk I'd be very concerned. Not just the federation but especially the romulans given their behaviour throughout the entire season. They just shrugged and went "fine by us". Really? They witnessed the incursion confirming the threat was real so unless they were really underwhelmed by matrix squid robots I'd have thought they'd be even more resolved to destroy the AI on that planet.

Like i said, I'd have much preferred that the beacon was a test whereby only AI that refuse to commit mass genocide are actually allowed into the AI empire. But no, they decided they'd stick with the big threat and leave us with the notion one of the season's primary antagonists was willing to commit galactic genocide. Not cool. And she can do so the next time she throws a pissy fit.

But perhaps even worse was Picard's resurrection. They've essentially discovered immortality, right? So while Picard is all "I don't want to live forever" I'm sure there will be many humanoids out there with a different opinion eg kids with a similar condition to riker's or maybe front-line red shirts from the federation? There was no dialogue suggesting the tech no longer exists soong can build golems and soji can do the mind transference. So unless i missed them saying it was only Data's mind that allowed Picard to be copy/transferred this tech is replicable. If it isn't then deleting Data was utterly reckless without understanding how it worked, irrespective of Data wanting to die (and let's not get started in why he was conscious for 20 years in data heaven without no communication). Both Soong and "everyone seems cool with me killing madfox" Dr seem far too flaky/driven to just give up on golem tech and immortality.

And then there's "why did you even bother bringing Picard back". He doesn't want to live forever so why give him 10 more years? Just so he can say goodbye. At the very least they could have given him some knowledge whereby they had to bring him back to complete the mission only he could. But they couldn't even be bothered to do that. This ending feels very much like it didn't occur to them until they filmed the last episode (or possible even reshot) once Stewart and producers decided they wanted a second season. Which would maybe explain but not excuse how his resurrection makes no sense and opens a huge can of worms. Even the other characters mourning his death seems utterly uneccessary (unless he actually did die in the original episode that was filmed).

And i still feel like the Borg were present for tge same reason they were in voyager, to get people tuning in. The Borg should still be scary arguably moreso than the previously theoretically matrix squids but they spend the whole season as punchbags. What happened to that cube? Did 7of9 just leave the other xbs to it? It also seemed like a missed opportunity given Picard's connection to the Borg. Also seems off for a guy so keen on saving romulans and protecting AI that he couldn't give a flying fuck about all the XBs who are essentially like him and have as much right to life as anyone else. At least 7of9 had a passing concern for them.

The XBs are within their right to call on the borg and consider reassimilation or at least form an angrier more personal version of the Borg collective. Something like that as a final scene would made their presence in the show more worthwhile.

Minor annoyance. Romulan ninja assassin woman. I've seen star wars and i know how easy it is to survive falling down a giant space station pit - especially in a world with teleportation tech. Don't waste my time.

Could season 2 please follow through on any new ideas/story arcs and not just go for easy answers/resolutions that make little sense in the long run? There were a lot of things i liked about how this season started but the pay-offs were major let downs.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Poobah said:

Ohh boy that finale was.... not good.

Had my favourite moment, though. On the other hand it was with Riker, who is not a main cast character, which in itself is not a point in this season's favor.

Welp, not coming back for season 2. I gave it a shot.

On 3/27/2020 at 8:03 AM, RumHam said:

 

But then instead of being disgusted with the organization that forced your son to die for no reason, you come out of semi-retirement to lead the armada in the finale. Fine. Whatever. 

 

 

In the show's defense, I don't think he did it for Starfleet. I think he did it purely to save Picard.

Edited by Red Tiger

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Posted (edited)
On 3/28/2020 at 2:30 AM, red snow said:

 

So whenever any of the synths feel like it they can summon genocidal tentacle robots from the matrix? Given they were quite keen on the idea prior to a Picard pep talk I'd be very concerned. Not just the federation but especially the romulans given their behaviour throughout the entire season. They just shrugged and went "fine by us". Really? They witnessed the incursion confirming the threat was real so unless they were really underwhelmed by matrix squid robots I'd have thought they'd be even more resolved to destroy the AI on that planet.

Like i said, I'd have much preferred that the beacon was a test whereby only AI that refuse to commit mass genocide are actually allowed into the AI empire. But no, they decided they'd stick with the big threat and leave us with the notion one of the season's primary antagonists was willing to commit galactic genocide. Not cool. And she can do so the next time she throws a pissy fit.

But perhaps even worse was Picard's resurrection. They've essentially discovered immortality, right? So while Picard is all "I don't want to live forever" I'm sure there will be many humanoids out there with a different opinion eg kids with a similar condition to riker's or maybe front-line red shirts from the federation? There was no dialogue suggesting the tech no longer exists soong can build golems and soji can do the mind transference. So unless i missed them saying it was only Data's mind that allowed Picard to be copy/transferred this tech is replicable. If it isn't then deleting Data was utterly reckless without understanding how it worked, irrespective of Data wanting to die (and let's not get started in why he was conscious for 20 years in data heaven without no communication). Both Soong and "everyone seems cool with me killing madfox" Dr seem far too flaky/driven to just give up on golem tech and immortality.

And then there's "why did you even bother bringing Picard back". He doesn't want to live forever so why give him 10 more years? Just so he can say goodbye. At the very least they could have given him some knowledge whereby they had to bring him back to complete the mission only he could. But they couldn't even be bothered to do that. This ending feels very much like it didn't occur to them until they filmed the last episode (or possible even reshot) once Stewart and producers decided they wanted a second season. Which would maybe explain but not excuse how his resurrection makes no sense and opens a huge can of worms. Even the other characters mourning his death seems utterly uneccessary (unless he actually did die in the original episode that was filmed).

 

So much of this season, on reflection, is cobbled together from bits and pieces of a novella in the Star Trek: Myriad Universes, titled, "Brave New World" by Chris Roberson...not a complete lift, no, but it has a planet of Synthetic life, Romulans, Picard, etc...the ending is even kinda there, at least where Picard is involved...there is more to the actual story, but I've always been struck by the similarities...

Edited by Jaxom 1974

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Posted (edited)
On 3/26/2020 at 11:44 PM, RumHam said:

I haven't re-watched DS9 in a bit, so maybe I'm wrong. but I don't remember the klingons taking on enemies armed with phasers with their blades. on TNG at least they mostly used them to fight each other. I dunno that they even had the blades on the original show? 

Anyway it's not just Elnor taking out multiple armed guards, it's also like Seven and Narissa's final fistfight. It's just not interesting to me and coming off re-watching TNG the fancy choreography is jarring. I miss the old "clasp your hands together and bash them on the back" maneuver! 

Yes, I saw "The Way of the Warrior" recently, and they boarded the station and attacked our heroes in Ops.. I think they used Phasers (or whatever the Klingon equivalent) first (and our heroes made sure to stand upright to make good targets instead of seeking cover) and then Bathleths and daggers. Kira was stabbed in the leg.

 

I like the show but they really need to reduce the ideas and themes they want to explore, then really do the remaining ones justice.

Edited by Mindwalker

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On 3/27/2020 at 3:08 AM, Jace, Basilissa said:

The word you're looking for is terrible. Not weird.

Shaka. When the walls fell. 

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28 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Shaka. When the walls fell. 

The processes leading to calamity indeed. Depending, of course, on whether you think the Tamerien Captain was describing a feeling or conditions eventuating a feeling.

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2 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

The processes leading to calamity indeed. Depending, of course, on whether you think the Tamerien Captain was describing a feeling or conditions eventuating a feeling.

Nerd!

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