Was the drowning of the Reynes justified?

[Trigger Warning]

On 2/18/2020 at 3:50 PM, James Steller said:

You can argue that it was justified, and you can argue that Tywin secured the Westerlands for himself when he slaughtered the Reynes and Tarbecks, though it also meant that his reign was a reign of fear. He would only be obeyed if he was powerful enough to defeat the opposition. This is in contrast to Eddard Stark or Renly Baratheon, who ruled more by love than fear. That’s why a whole army of Northmen are besieging Winterfell in the deep snow to defend Ned’s daughter even though Stark’s been dead for years at that point. Tywin’s family is falling apart and the Westerlands won’t be so quick to fight for them if things get worse.

 

This feels pretty disingenuous when Robb was stabbed in the heart by a vassal and the lords of the Westerlands stuck by Tywin when their situation seemed hopeless and Robb was pillaging the West uncontested, it's always more complicated than just love and fear. Besides destroying two extremely rebellious houses we don't have any idea how the lords of the West felt about him, they may have feared him but that doesn't mean fear was the driving factor in their loyalty just as fear was a factor in the rule of the North, Ned was going to personally execute a lord for breaking the law, some lords may see such rigid devotion to the rule of law as a negative in the extreme, it depends on the individual. 

[The Commentator]

On 2/20/2020 at 4:25 PM, Seams said:

This is what I was thinking, too. I think GRRM can use some of the elements to create a parallel without using all of the elements. What can we learn from the parts that are similar, even if there is not a 100% match?

• Most of the anger was directed at Lady Darklyn, who was singled out for special punishment, and Ellyn Reyne/Tarbeck.
• A child was dealt with separately: Dontos Hollard was spared at the request of Ser Barristan Selmy; Rohanne Tarbeck's son ("Last Lord Tarbeck") was thrown down a well by Ser Amory Lorch. (Or spared and smuggled to Essos where he became a bard.)
• The House was wiped out.

I have also wondered about a parallel between House Darklyn and House Stark, with the accusation/taking of Tyrion by Catelyn as the comparable catalyst to the taking of Aerys.

The role of Amory Lorch in the Reyne story might indicate that we should also be looking at Rhaenys and the attack on the royal family as parallels for the revenge against Houses Reyne and Darklyn. For some reason, Tywin and Aerys felt the need to completely destroy the people associated with each House - but may have made a fatal error by allowing one boy child to survive. If there is a parallel in the deaths of Aerys, Elia and Rhaenys (with Rhaegar dying in battle, like some of the elder Tarbeck males) does this strengthen the likelihood that Young Griff / Aegon is a survivor comparable to Ser Dontos (and, possibly, Last Lord Tarbeck)?

If you look at some of the past speculation about Lann the Clever, there was a thread where someone made a persuasive case that Lann was a woman who infiltrated Casterly Rock by marrying into the ruling family. This would be consistent with Cersei's takeover of the Iron Throne by marrying Robert  bearing his "heirs" and becoming regent. I suspect we will also see something similar with Rohanne Webber marrying into the Lannister clan when the Dunk & Egg saga is complete or in other materials that have not yet been released.

With those models in mind, Tywin might have been very leery of Ellyn Reyne's clever manipulation of marriage and power and wealth in the westerlands. He did not want to be outwitted by a "new" Lann who wanted to rise in the high born power structure of Westeros.

It's interesting that Ser Dontos grew up to play a strategic role in bringing down Joffrey, the scion of House Lannister (even if he didn't realize his true paternity). I think there is a definite parallel between the Darklyns and the Reynes.

Young Griff has reddish blonde hair. Are you proposing him to be a possible survivor of the Tarbecks?  The nobles take very seriously any assault on their family.  Kidnapping too.  Brandon Stark and Tywin Lannister proved that. The Darklyns went way past that level. They took their King prisoner and tortured him. I will even accuse them of violating guest rights. An act of aggression against Aerys is an attack on Westeros.  Aerys, for all of his many faults, was not without mercy. He spared Dontos. How many lords who suffered under his circumstance would even consider mercy?  He would later go on to spare Brandon’s squire.

 

 

[Seams]

2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Young Griff has reddish blonde hair. Are you proposing him to be a possible survivor of the Tarbecks?

No, I am looking at parallels - patterns that repeat, sometimes with variations. I wasn't trying to say that Young Griff is the Last Lord Tarbeck.

[The Commentator]

1 hour ago, Seams said:

No, I am looking at parallels - patterns that repeat, sometimes with variations. I wasn't trying to say that Young Griff is the Last Lord Tarbeck.

Ok

[Putin]

This is Tywins way. If you ask me for my opinion about his way my answer is this :

The most cruel but at the same time the most efficient way.

Tywin did right and here are reasons. Tytos wanted to rule by love , by being forgiving and we know how that ended, house Lannister lost reputation ,power and wealth and those  2 houses ,took advantage of it. They grew strong , didnt want to repay the debt , and later openly rebelled.This showed those lords have no honor , which means they are not reliable too.

If Tywin let them live they could try that again in future but this time it would be worse. They were powerful , wealthy house, meaning they could hire more knights , sellswords , free riders and so. They could also made alliance with some other houses , promising them rich rewards .

By completely erasing them for existence and crushing their castles Tywin accomplished next :

1. Destroyed his enemies.

2. By killing them all made sure there would be no one to avenge them and try new rebellion.

3. Secured better future for house Lannister with no other wealthy and influential rivals.

4. Earned huge respect and fear for himself .

5. Showed example to others.