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CassieSol919

How did certain families get Valyrian steel?

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Even before the Doom, Valyrian steel was very expensive. The amount the Lannisters payed for Brightroar was enough to raise an army. House Hightower is wealthy and traded with Valyria so it makes sense that they had Vigilance but what about other houses? How did the Starks get Ice or the Mormonts Longclaw? I doubt there was much interaction between the North and Valyria.

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Though we don't see this directly, I would imagine the most common way for a family to get a Valyrian steel sword is to win it over in battle. Not everyone is like Ned and will return Dawn to their family after killing it's holder in battle

As to Longclaw, I'm still not sure it's entirely what Jeor represented it to Jon as. As best as I can remember no other member of House Mormont has ever even mentioned the sword.

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Many, many ways.  By trade.  Purchase.  A reward for valued service.  Battle trophy.  Houses could have sold their children to slavery in exchange for a Valyrian Steel toothpick.  

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4 hours ago, EvanSol919 said:

The amount the Lannisters payed for Brightroar was enough to raise an army.

Heartsbane, Brightroar and Longclaw are all said to have been acquired around 500 years ago. Which may suggest some connection between those Houses. 

4 hours ago, EvanSol919 said:

How did the Starks get Ice

Starks acquired Ice about 400 years ago, which is suspiciously close to when Brightroar was lost. 

3 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

As to Longclaw, I'm still not sure it's entirely what Jeor represented it to Jon as. As best as I can remember no other member of House Mormont has ever even mentioned the sword.

I've grown to suspect that Longclaw(Blackfyre) was found when the Lord Commander's Tower burned.  Hidden there by Bloodraven before going beyond the Wall. 

Edited by Narsil4

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7 hours ago, Narsil4 said:

 

I've grown to suspect that Longclaw(Blackfyre) was found when the Lord Commander's Tower burned.  Hidden there by Bloodraven before going beyond the Wall. 

Bloodraven was the one who killed Daemon Blackfyre with a hail of arrows, but would he be allowed to bring the most valuable and important Targaryen heirloom with him to the Wall? Considering Bloodraven already had Dark Sister, why would the Targaryens let him have one more family valyrian steel sword?

I guess he coulve retrieved it from the battlefield and hid it, then smuggled it to the Wall when he was sent there. Why would he do that though?

It sort of makes sense, and it sort of doesnt. Im 50/50 when it comes to Longclaw being what Jeor said it was.

They're both bastard swords, which seems to be another point in favour of your theory.

Edit: skimmed the worldbook, and the last we hear of Blackfyre is Bittersteel picking it up and ending up in a duel with Bloodraven. The duel ended in a draw. Theres no mention of what hapoened to Blackfyre after that as far as I can tell. Did Bittersteel take it into exile, or did Bloodraven manage to disarm Aegor?

Edited by Gink

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9 hours ago, Narsil4 said:

I've grown to suspect that Longclaw(Blackfyre) was found when the Lord Commander's Tower burned.  Hidden there by Bloodraven before going beyond the Wall. 

That makes a lot of sense, but given that Blackfyre was taken by well the Blackfyres, it would probably be Dark Sister. Then again Longclaw is a bastard sword which makes it equally as unlikely that it's Dark Sister. All in all it probably is what Jeor claims it to be.

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We know that Mormonts have long history of fighting against Ironborn. So it is possible that there was a lucky pirate who gained a Valyrian steel sword by raiding a Valyrian ship. But either he or one of his less lucky descendants lost that sword when he tried to raid Bear Island. So I assume that Mormonts paid iron price instead of golden one.

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We're seen three  VS being gained in battle, so more likely than not. People just gained them in battle.

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It's a bit suspicious that out of all Valyrian Steel weapons ever made, there's only two bastard-swords, other swords are either two-handed greatswords or average swords, not a sword and a half like Blackfyre or Longclaw.

So it's not totally impossible that Longclaw could be Blackfyre, because Jeor Mormont could have lied about that sword's history. For example, if Jeor participated in the War of Ninepenny Kings (in 260), it's a possibility that he just picked up from the battlefield Maelys' sword, when Maelys Blackfyre was killed by Barristan. Or maybe when Bittersteel was sent to The Wall, and when he escaped on the way there, the sword was left behind, and was sent to The Wall (in 219). Jeor said that before him Longclaw was weilded by his father, and prior that by his grandfather (Jeor was born in 230). If it's a tradition for senior Mormonts to join Night's Watch when they became old, and both Jeor's father and grandfather served at The Wall sometime after 219, then it's a possibility that Longclaw is Blackfyre, and the part about Jeor's father and grandfather being the sword's previous owners is true, while the part about that sword belonging to Mormont family for 500 years is a lie. Maybe Jeor himself doesn't know that what he knew about his "ancestral" sword's history was a lie. 

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15 hours ago, Gink said:

I guess he coulve retrieved it from the battlefield and hid it, then smuggled it to the Wall when he was sent there. Why would he do that though?

Bloodraven seemed to want Aegor to die rather than be allowed to go to the Night's Watch, so it seems likely he also wouldn't want him to keep Blackfyre. Even if he wasn't going to use it himself. 

I imagine he took Blackfyre after defeating Aegor. Then just let everyone assume it was taken east. 

Blackfyre and Dark Sister also seem like they might be siblings similar to Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail. Perhaps created from another Greatsword in the same way.
So in a certain sense, they may belong together.  

15 hours ago, Gink said:

Theres no mention of what hapoened to Blackfyre after that as far as I can tell.

I would have expected Blackfyre to become a symbol of the Golden Company along with the skull. If he had the sword when he died. 

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

while the part about that sword belonging to Mormont family for 500 years is a lie.

I suspect thats half a lie. The sword being in the possession of Targaryens or Blackfyres for 500 years.

18 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Bloodraven had Dark Sister, not Blackfyre. And still has it, I’ll wager.

I'm thinking he took Dark Sister with him beyond the Wall and left Blackfyre in the Lord Commander's Tower. Possibly due to him just being used to fighting with that weapon. 

If Dark Sister isn't lost, I imagine Bran might end up giving it to Arya at some point. 

Edited by Narsil4

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@Narsil4, I see where you’re coming from now irt Blackfyre. I think it’s unlikely though. I mean, it would be hard to keep something like this quiet. 

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7 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

@Narsil4 and @Gink, Bloodraven had Dark Sister, not Blackfyre. And still has it, I’ll wager.  

I know, I said so in my post.

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7 hours ago, Narsil4 said:

Bloodraven seemed to want Aegor to die rather than be allowed to go to the Night's Watch, so it seems likely he also wouldn't want him to keep Blackfyre. Even if he wasn't going to use it himself. 

I imagine he took Blackfyre after defeating Aegor. Then just let everyone assume it was taken east. 

 

I dont understand why Bloodraven wouldnt return Blackfyre to the king though, he was serving as hand after all. It makes no sense to me that he would hide it for years while acting as hand, then smuggle it in secret to the Wall when exiled for killing Aenys Blackfyre.

 

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2 hours ago, Gink said:

I know, I said so in my post.

Missed that, sorry.

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4 hours ago, Gink said:

I dont understand why Bloodraven wouldnt return Blackfyre to the king though, he was serving as hand after all. It makes no sense to me that he would hide it for years while acting as hand, then smuggle it in secret to the Wall when exiled for killing Aenys Blackfyre.

Especially since the sword seems important to the Blackfyre supporters/sympathizers. A big deal was made about John the Fiddler not being given the sword.

The only explanation I can come up with as to why he would hide Blackfyre and be allowed to take Dark Sister with him to the Wall is that he foresaw something, had a vision and took the swords with him.

I would not be surprised at all if Bloodraven knew Jeor Mormont (and Rickard Stark). He was on the Wall for 19 years, was Lord Commander for 13. There is possibility of interactions. Who knows what he might have said to them.

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Yes, I was also thinking the only explanation would have to be visions of the future, greendreams he had, so he knew both swords would be needed at the Wall. I dont like this image of Bloodraven where he's portrayed as some sort of omnipotent being that has a finger in everything that happens though. At least not already back then. 

 

Edit: Im going to be sticking with Loose Bolts theory upthread regarding the origin of Longclaw, its the one that makes the most sense to me.

Edited by Gink

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17 hours ago, Gink said:

I dont understand why Bloodraven wouldnt return Blackfyre to the king though, he was serving as hand after all.

At that point Blackfyre had become a symbol of a rival House.

I'm thinking Aerys I and Bloodraven may have agreed to keep it hidden, so it couldn't be used to rally support for more rebellions. 

12 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

why he would hide Blackfyre and be allowed to take Dark Sister with him to the Wall is that he foresaw something

Aerys I sounds quite a bit like Rhaegar, so I wouldn't be surprised if they learned something that made them think VS or Blackfyre specifically would be needed at the Wall.  

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On 2/21/2020 at 1:36 AM, Gink said:

I dont understand why Bloodraven wouldnt return Blackfyre to the king though, he was serving as hand after all. It makes no sense to me that he would hide it for years while acting as hand, then smuggle it in secret to the Wall when exiled for killing Aenys Blackfyre.

 

It makes no sense that he was permitted to keep the ancestral Targaryen sword Dark Sister when he was exiled to the Wall for murdering Aenys Blackfyre on a promise of safe passage.

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6 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

It makes no sense that he was permitted to keep the ancestral Targaryen sword Dark Sister when he was exiled to the Wall for murdering Aenys Blackfyre on a promise of safe passage.

I think it does make sense actually. Aegon V understood why BR did what he did, and yet he couldn’t give the impression that the crown condoned BR’s actions. So he condemned BR to death, then commuted the sentence to life on the NW, while letting BR keep the sword. 

TWoIaF, Aegon V

“THE FIRST ACT of Aegon’s reign was the arrest of Brynden Rivers, the King’s Hand, for the murder of Aenys Blackfyre. Bloodraven did not deny that he had lured the pretender into his power by the offer of a safe conduct, but contended that he had sacrificed his own personal honor for the good of the realm.
Though many agreed, and were pleased to see another Blackfyre pretender removed, King Aegon felt he had no choice but to condemn the Hand, lest the word of the Iron Throne be seen as worthless. Yet after the sentence of death was pronounced, Aegon offered Bloodraven the chance to take the black and join the Night’s Watch. This he did. Ser Brynden Rivers set sail for the Wall late in the year of 233 AC. (No one intercepted his ship). Two hundred men went with him, many of them archers from Bloodraven’s personal guard, the Raven’s Teeth. The king’s brother, Maester Aemon, was also amongst them.”

 

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