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Fragile Bird

US Politics: Money, Money, Money Makes the World Go Round

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I think now the only person who has a path to the nomination besides Bernie is Biden. If Biden wins South Carolina he still has a pretty good shot if he's able to win South Carolina and that boosts him to win in a lot of the southern states that Hillary won in 16 he might then use that to consolidate the race into a two person race and if that happens it could go either way, if Pete, Steyer or Klobuchar win I don't know that they could translate that into more wins on super Tuesday and if Bernie wins South Carolina it's all over and I don't see anyone toppling him. 

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Biden's chances are absolute zero.  I love Biden, and yet when he gives a talk I rush to change the channel because I become so miserable.  Not all about me, of course, but christ....

It is absolutely over, it's Bernie's, and it happened just that quickly.  

So now it's time to find out who actually hates Trump and who was just posturing.  

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50 minutes ago, Darzin said:

I think now the only person who has a path to the nomination besides Bernie is Biden. If Biden wins South Carolina he still has a pretty good shot if he's able to win South Carolina and that boosts him to win in a lot of the southern states that Hillary won in 16 he might then use that to consolidate the race into a two person race and if that happens it could go either way, if Pete, Steyer or Klobuchar win I don't know that they could translate that into more wins on super Tuesday and if Bernie wins South Carolina it's all over and I don't see anyone toppling him. 

I detest a Biden nom about as much as a Sanders one.  The best thing these two could have done for the country would have been to step aside and use their respective institutional weights to put behind better candidates than themselves (maybe something like Sanders backing someone like Warren from the start, maybe Biden doing so with someone like Booker or Harris, idk).   Awesome that once again the loud and mediocre old white guys get all the oxygen.

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I'm not a big fan of Bernie, but Jews are not and have never historically been "white," no matter how one tries to spin it, and dismissing Bernie as an old white guy is just low. 

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I'm not sure "mediocre" is fair to Bernie either.
Fuck, I'm not even sure it's fair to Biden, and I'm certainly not a fan of his.

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One can view both Trump and Bernie as equally destructive in different ways. It can be argued that choosing the Bernie one finds when digging through his past (as opposed to people's Headcanon Bernie) can be worse because then both parties have gone off the rails instead of just one.

Bernie needs to be very careful to not make people feel like they're only choosing between the pot and the kettle and his past and not disavowing those views is extremely concerning.

And crap like this sometimes makes those differences look not so far apart. I'm sick of this sort of entitled it's-not-fair-if-it-goes-against-me behavior from Trump where he's reacting like a hostile playground bully instead of an adult and sometimes I have a lot of trouble seeing the difference between the two if you give Bernie that much power with a similar base to Trump's.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-reportedly-flipped-out-on-msnbc-execs-before-debate-over-networks-coverage/

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Sanders won more than 50% of the Hispanic vote in Nevada. I'd love to see how it pans out in California and Texas (note that Trump won 30% of this vote in 2016 and wants to make inroads, would be great if some of that could be peeled off).

Also, you cant compare Sanders to Trump. To quote someone who said this about HRC "Even if she's wrong, she's wrong within normal parameters". In no way will Sanders diminish the power of the free press. I wouldn't be too concerned about institutional degradation if he were to become President.

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19 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

I'm not sure "mediocre" is fair to Bernie either.
Fuck, I'm not even sure it's fair to Biden, and I'm certainly not a fan of his.

I was referring to Biden as mediocre and Sanders as loud.  If it’s not clear I’m incandescently furious that their presence in the race, which I view as being past their primes and times, crowded out much more interesting, and in some cases, far superior, options.

ETA: I’m obviously not as far along as DMC in my stages of grief.

Edited by butterbumps!

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2 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Sanders won more than 50% of the Hispanic vote in Nevada. I'd love to see how it pans out in California and Texas (note that Trump won 30% of this vote in 2016 and wants to make inroads, would be great if some of that could be peeled off).

Also, you cant compare Sanders to Trump. To quote someone who said this about HRC "Even if she's wrong, she's wrong within normal parameters". In no way will Sanders diminish the power of the free press. I wouldn't be too concerned about institutional degradation if he were to become President.

If we're talking about the nice Headcanon Bernie, I agree. But this doesn't mesh at all with his actual past. He's already threatening the press. Literally.

 

Edited by Lollygag

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2 hours ago, butterbumps! said:

I detest a Biden nom about as much as a Sanders one.  The best thing these two could have done for the country would have been to step aside and use their respective institutional weights to put behind better candidates than themselves (maybe something like Sanders backing someone like Warren from the start, maybe Biden doing so with someone like Booker or Harris, idk).   Awesome that once again the loud and mediocre old white guys get all the oxygen.

Well said.  What a depressing result. It is almost like Nevada wasn't paying attention to anything in the last year. I don't know what is worst, Sanders winning big or Biden as a solid second. I vow to pronounce it Nev Odd a from now on.

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8 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

If we're talking about the nice Headcanon Bernie, I agree. But this doesn't mesh at all with his actual past. He's already threatening the press. Literally.

 

Bullshit - MSNBC is essentially the media wing of the establishment Dems, and when you've got Chris Matthews up there making all these comparisons between Sanders and Nazis or Sanders and Stalin or Sanders and Trump what do you expect?  They've also had headlines along the lines of "Sanders loses 3rd place in Nevada to Buttigieg" (instead of saying he'd rose to 1st).  He probabaly shouldn't have said anything but it's absolutely nothing like Trump calling the press the enemy of the people.  Shit, Clinton complained about unfair press coverage and people were sympathetic to it.  

Also on a schadenfreude level it's is extremely satisfying to seeing people freak out that the party has moved left and found a candidate that they can get behind.  I've been voting for the lesser of two evils my entire voting life.  Deal with it.  "This guy is just like Trump".  Yeah he wants to give us all a baseline standard of living and the ability to go see a doctor.  

It's such a terrible thing that the Dems actually have a portion of their base that is energized behind a candidate.  Also hilarious seeing liberals whine about how minority voters (especially Latino voters and women) have lost their minds by voting for who they think is the best candidate for them.  (Speaking more broadly about takes I've seen on social media and editorials in the last few days, not necessarily comments here).

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Just now, larrytheimp said:

Bullshit - MSNBC is essentially the media wing of the establishment Dems, and when you've got Chris Matthews up there making all these comparisons between Sanders and Nazis or Sanders and Stalin or Sanders and Trump what do you expect?  They've also had headlines along the lines of "Sanders loses 3rd place in Nevada to Buttigieg" (instead of saying he'd rose to 1st).  He probabaly shouldn't have said anything but it's absolutely nothing like Trump calling the press the enemy of the people.  Shit, Clinton complained about unfair press coverage and people were sympathetic to it.   

Also on a schadenfreude level it's is extremely satisfying to seeing people freak out that the party has moved left and found a candidate that they can get behind.  I've been voting for the lesser of two evils my entire voting life.  Deal with it.  "This guy is just like Trump".  Yeah he wants to give us all a baseline standard of living and the ability to go see a doctor.  

It's such a terrible thing that the Dems actually have a portion of their base that is energized behind a candidate.  Also hilarious seeing liberals whine about how minority voters (especially Latino voters and women) have lost their minds by voting for who they think is the best candidate for them.  (Speaking more broadly about takes I've seen on social media and editorials in the last few days, not necessarily comments here).

He can say something if he wants, but he needs to say it like an adult. And he also needs to own that the source of these reactions is his own past. It's on him to clarify that if there's a misunderstanding. It's bullshit for Bernie to think people will ignore his past and not react just because that's what's convenient for him.

I don't have problem with leftist views. I'd dance to the polls if my choice was Warren vs. Trump. I also don't have a problem with *some* socialistic views. I do have a massive problem with Bernie himself and the things that surround him. What any candidate wants to do doesn't matter to me at all if they can't tell me how they're going to do it and it has no chance of getting passed anyhow. I won't take it any more seriously than I take unicorns farting rainbows until it can be substantiated and vetted. I despise blind faith and it's the worst when a politician with a messianic complex is involved.

Bold: Liberals do this all of the time with the whole "voting against their interests" thing. It's condescending as you say.

 

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43 minutes ago, butterbumps! said:

I was referring to Biden as mediocre and Sanders as loud.  If it’s not clear I’m incandescently furious that their presence in the race, which I view as being past their primes and times, crowded out much more interesting, and in some cases, far superior, options.

Well I also said I though Warren was a better candidate than Sanders but if she couldn't even be a credible threat for him then obviously I was wrong.

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46 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

If we're talking about the nice Headcanon Bernie, I agree. But this doesn't mesh at all with his actual past. He's already threatening the press. Literally.

 

Howso?

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9 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Howso?

https://pagesix.com/2020/02/21/bernie-sanders-calls-out-msnbc-over-campaign-coverage/

Very Trump-ian.  The journalist left out the part where Sanders was calling the press the enemy of the people at the debate (you probabaly missed it during a bathroom break), and also they forgot to mention all those things from his past where he's talked about hating journalists.

Quote

A separate insider confirmed the confrontation, saying Sanders was so steamed he also sparred with MSNBC boss Phil Griffin outside the green room moments before the debate began. “Sen. Sanders stated, ‘Phil, your network has not been playing a fair role in this campaign. I am upset. Is anything going to change? . . . I hope you will do better.’ ”

Seriously though , compare the author's description with the language Sanders is using here.  It's fucking hilarious.

 

*Eta: he's not dragging the press publicly in front of voters.  He told a few executives, politely, that their network is trash.  Which it is.

"Steamed" "sparred"

Edited by larrytheimp

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Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Howso?

If you're asking about his past contrasting with people's perceptions, the posts with sources can be found earlier in this thread. If you're asking about his threatening the media instead of discussing things like an adult, here's the link again.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-reportedly-flipped-out-on-msnbc-execs-before-debate-over-networks-coverage/

 

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2 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

If you're asking about his past contrasting with people's perceptions, the posts with sources can be found earlier in this thread. If you're asking about his threatening the media instead of discussing things like an adult, here's the link again.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-reportedly-flipped-out-on-msnbc-execs-before-debate-over-networks-coverage/

 

Lol threatening the media.  When did you stop beating your wife?

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4 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

If you're asking about his past contrasting with people's perceptions, the posts with sources can be found earlier in this thread. If you're asking about his threatening the media instead of discussing things like an adult, here's the link again.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/bernie-sanders-reportedly-flipped-out-on-msnbc-execs-before-debate-over-networks-coverage/

 

From your link:

Quote

The paper also reported that Sanders vented at moderator Chuck Todd over comments he’d made on the air, uncritically citing a column that compared Sanders’ supporters to Nazis. “I do not appreciate your comment about my supporters,” Sanders reportedly told Todd, calling the remark “offensive.”

What a totalitarian.

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Just now, larrytheimp said:

Lol threatening the media.  When did you stop beating your wife?

Bold: what?

What do you call getting in people's faces and sticking their fingers in their faces? This sort of behavior is commonly referred to as threatening.

Quote

Surging Sanders stormed through the walk-through for the Las Vegas debate, singling out one top producer at the end and aggressively sticking his finger in his face. One shocked witness said, “Bernie marched right up to NBC and MSNBC’s head of creative production and began jabbing his finger right in his face, yelling, ‘Your coverage of my campaign is not fair . . . Your questions tonight are not going to be fair to me.’ ”

 

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Just now, larrytheimp said:

From your link:

What a totalitarian.

That wasn't the part that I took an issue with and you know it. I said he's free to say something as long as it's in a mature way.

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