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Alyn Oakenfist

Obnoxious POV's

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Arya in every chapter she's in.

I dislike her as a character, because she's an incredibly stock trope 'not like all the other girls' action girl. I also dislike her because she gets way too much screen time, like pages upon pages of her doing nothing of any real import.

You could probably cut her total screentime in half and miss literally nothing in terms of plot or information.

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On first read I found all of the ironborn and dornish one off POV's frustrating because I wanted to get back to the characters that I had become accustomed to.  On rereads I find Cat to be insufferable.  It's not just her treasons, it's her know it all cynicism when dealing with anything that hasn't to do with raising children. It would be fine if she wasn't such a fuckup, but the person who kidnapped Tyrion and released Jamie did a heck of a lot more harm to 'the realm' than any 'knight of summer'. Best thing about Stoneheart is that she aint a POV and I don't have to read her bile.

 

OP I loved Brienne's chapters in Feast - different strokes.  have to agree with you on Tyrion in Dance though.

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No obnoxious POVs.If I encountered obnoxious POVs I would bin the book.

There are some I like more than others but none of them were obnoxious imo.

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Jon -

He is a vehicle for the author to advocate the idea that love is a selfish and destructive emotion and is the source of all wars and everything that is wrong with the world. The good man focuses on duty and ideally swears off women entirely. Lock them in a tower or something. Duty and blind obedience is always preferable to matters of conscience which are inherently irrational. Any character that’s pushing this agenda quite so heavily is going to get the dislike button. Now, Jon as a character might himself disagree (often half heartedly TBH) with some of these moral messages but he is basically a loser who ends up being a failure to prove these points.

He is an entitled and arrogant brat who constantly feels sorry for himself even though he’s had an easy life. He has a victim mentality. Does he really believe he’s the only bastard in Westeros? The only bastard? In the Middle Ages? How removed from reality do you have to be?

Being “shunned” (which he really isn’t except for like two people) for being a bastard is not a relatable or sympathetic backstory. William the Conqueror did fine for himself. Compared to Tyrion dealing with being abused by his father, Tysha. Danys opening with Viserys and being sold off. Theon, Jamie. They all have vastly more interesting and compelling conflicts and problems than Jon. 

He thinks people are bullying him when objectively he’s given preferential treatment for being Ned Starks son. He’s trained by the Master at Arms, he’s given money and a living by his Lordly father, he’s immediately groomed for command by the Lord Commander, he’s mentored by the First Ranger, he has Mance Rayder take him under his wing. Apart from maybe the last one this is entirely due to his noble birth. Had he been a peasant I do not think anybody would have given him the time of day. 

Being a male member of the Nobility who are keeping serfs makes him instantly dislikable. Yes the farmhand turn hero is a trope but there’s a reason you don’t make your heroes part of the landed gentry. Unless you have a romanticised portrayal to have the small issue of them being evil. This makes him complicit in a social system that is predicated upon violence and control. His blindness towards this is staggering whilst he crows about family honour and his vows to a penal colony. At least Tyrion & Co are intended to be ambivalent characters who acknowledge the cruelties of the world.

The fact he is Rhaegar and Lyannas child and somehow the rightful heir is obvious within the first few chapters. Fantasy story check. Dark haired hero with unknown mother - check. Ned acting awakened whenever Rob talks about Jon. Hmm, Probably royalty. 

His first book did not sell him. For reasons above. But George decides he wants to do a homage to Full Metal Jacket. Which is spectacularly original. Like nobody has ever done that before. Groundbreaking. Then we have him go from being Mr Privilige to Man of the People within a few chapters after one pep talk with Tyrion. What? 

Basically nothing happens. The nights watch is meant to alert Westeros to the Others. They do that. People don’t listen. At that point the whole story is irrelevant and simply counting time until Jon does something since nothing he does at the wall matters in the Grand Scheme of things. What does happen is incredibly dragged out and really suffers due to George’s decisions on pacing the series. Not as bad as Brans story but it’s up there.

He really does know nothing and is an idiot. He somehow does not learn that the Nights Watch is a penal colony despite living in the North for years and his relative being in the NW. He joins it because he thinks it’s going to be cool anyway. These are not little mistakes to learn from. He is just an idiot.

Edited by Tyrion1991

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5 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

Yes the farmhand turn hero is a trope but there’s a reason you don’t make your heroes part of the landed gentry.

Here's the thing though. There are almost no hero's in medieval times that were peasants. At best they were minor nobility. Cause in the end peasants almost always remained just that, peasants. 

I don't think however he's given much preferential treatment. He is treated better at first, but that is more due to the fact that he is one of the few volunteers, and one of the few to be properly trained. Who would you like to train for command, Someone who learned from a maester and master at arms, or someone who probably can't even write. After that he received good treatment due to his actions on the Wall.

5 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

The fact he is Rhaegar and Lyannas child and somehow the rightful heir is obvious within the first few chapters. Fantasy story check. Dark haired hero with unknown mother - check. Ned acting awakened whenever Rob talks about Jon. Hmm, Probably royalty. 

I got to be honest the though of R+L=J didn't even cross my mind when I first read the books. I had to learn about it from forums. I do agree however that it isn't a good trope, and it might even undermine Jon's ark.

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Sansa (has interesting moments but almost never good entire chapters). Just so vapid. I like what she represents but Sansa the character is so...dull.

Dany ADwD - her GoT, CoK, and SoS storylines are some of the best in the series (especially GoT) and she regresses into a teenage high school ditz constantly prattling "I want to keep banging Dario. But i can't. But I want to. But i can't." When there are a thousand more interesting things going on around her. Who gives a shit if youre jealous of Dario's sword hilts.

Those are the only two povs I will skip over sometimes on rereads. 

I thought about including Catelyn's chapters but those are pretty good overall even if I dont think much of Catelyn herself. 

 

 

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On 2/23/2020 at 3:47 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So what character's POV in a book you simply can't stand? Mine would be in no particular order:

  • Brienne in AFFC. No Brienne nobody's seen a fair maiden with a fool. Those POV's are incredibly bad. It's 33% random side quests, 33% Riverland tourism and 33% actually interesting stuff but for whom your patience has long since disappeared,
  • Tyrion in ADWD. No Tyrion, nobody knows where whores go. Now could you maybe, just maybe stop being a bloody pawn and you know, do something!!!!!
  • Dany in ADWD. The same problem. Do something, anything, I don't give a damn about Ghiscari food, clothing or what not. The only good thing Day does for the story is get out of Meeren and allow Barristan to actually do something.
  • Bran. Bran is just the stories exposition fairy. GRRM needs to tell us something so Bran finds it out.
  • Arya in AFFC and ADWD. For God's sake you can rap this up in 2 chapters not a gazillion. I don't give a crap about how the temple looks or what the statues are.
  • Jon Snow in ASOS. Why? ,,You know noth..." I KNOW!!!!! You know! I don't. I got it, I got the concept.
  • Sansa Stark is really obnoxious to me.  It was work getting through those chapters.
  • Brienne from Tarth is an okay person but her chapters do not interests me.  Her tomboy like gender confusion annoyed me. 
  • Arya Stark
  • Jon Snow
  • Mellissandre

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