Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Fragile Bird

US Politics: What goes up, must come down!

Recommended Posts

Supposing Sanders wins the nomination, what's the best VP selection to get the biggest turnout where it matters?  I feel like he either has to at least offer it to Warren or Castro to unite the party, otherwise go someone from the rust belt or Midwest.  Maybe Duckworth?  Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for double post but here's another example of the subtle creep of executive power:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a31075649/justice-sonia-sotomayor-supreme-court-conservatives/

Would love to see next Pres ask congress to strengthen checks on the presidency, especially war powers, but I don't even know how you legislate something like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Lollygag said:

When discussing political issues and politicians, you need to go beyond name-calling something as a "trope" which is just a cop out to avoid the obvious. And why does it look like this isn't old at all?

Here's 60 Minutes from last night where Sanders doubled-down on Castro which ticked off Democrats and Republicans alike. There's more links within the links. Note that by the reactions this was new to a lot of people at least in the mainstream. If Trump was praising North Korea's programs or whatnot, it'd be perceived as propping up a dictator. Rightly so.

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/say-goodbye-to-florida-bernie-sanders-torched-for-equivocation-over-fidel-castros-cuba-its-unfair-to-say-everything-is-bad/

Here's Bernie praising Fidel's Communist Revolution. Since it's from "Reagan Battalion", it's not unlikely at all that the Republicans already have this one geared up and ready to drop the moment Bernie wins the nom.

Well, yes, that's Bernie for you. Is anyone here going to be surprised by this?

There are several different things here:

- The election. As a socialist politician, Sanders has over the years been ambiguous over things happening under Castro or Chavez. Of course. And yes, that will cost him votes, probably Florida (though don't Cuban-Americans already vote Republican anyway?), and possibly the election. That's precisely why I thought Warren would be a better candidate, since she comes without that kind of bagagge.

- The ideology. As I said before, ideology and regime can be distinct. Right-wing politicians don't get slammed for the way their ideology played out in places like Chile, or don't get asked to own the terrible consequences of unfettered capitalism. Point out that even terrible socialist regimes sought to provide quality education or healthcare and suddenly you're a monster. Blah. I guess Bernie should stick with Norway, but the media won't let him do that (Anderson Cooper is a case in point here, one should also think about his role in this).

- The video (the one you linked). Have you watched it? I tried hard to find a moment where Bernie clearly praises Castro's revolution and didn't actually find one. He mentions the fact he didn't know anything about politics at the time. And then his exact words are: "I always had a rebelious streak. [...] But I remember [...] being very excited when Fidel Castro made the revolution in Cuba. I was a kid and I remember reading that. It seemed right and appropriate that poor people were rising against rather ugly rich people."
Then he explains that both JFK and Nixon sought to destroy the Cuban revolution... And that's before the public knew for certain that Castro was going to be an autocrat/dictator, or even that Castro'd turn Cuba into a vassal state of the Soviet Union.
He also spends a lot of time speaking about race in the 1960s (the video doesn't seem that focused on Cuba).
And his recent comments are worse, but in the same vein. He condemns the persecution of political dissenders (calls Castro a "murdering dictator") but also points out that the Cuban regime did some good things, which is factually correct, as anyone who knows anything about Cuba can attest. And he's also correct that this is why a majority of Cubans kept supporting Castro even after it was clear that he was a dictator (what a monster he is for actually understanding that left-wing dictators can be popular...).

So I think there are two things to take out of this. i) Bernie is coherent, honest, and obviously understands the nature of the Cuban revolution far better than anyone slamming him for his remarks. By that I mean that it's one thing to condemn dictators, but it helps knowing the hows and the whys of them taking (or keeping) power. ii) This kind of honesty and subtlety is indeed very likely to get Trump reelected.

Now if I may... If Bernie does get the nomination, I think Democrats (/liberals) should be ready to defend this kind of position. At the very least they should try to understand where Bernie was coming from in the 1960s, and then through most of his political career up to this point. It would have been easier to defend Warren, for sure. But if Bernie gets the nomination, Democrats will have to understand what it means to be an anti-capitalist revolutionary and why they can't just throw Bernie under the bus now.
Tough sell, I know. But if Bernie gets the nomination, the election will be about more than Trump. And perhaps it's the worst moment to have this kind of national discussion about what capitalism and socialism really are. But it seems that's how things are turning out...
 

Edited by Rippounet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Supposing Sanders wins the nomination, what's the best VP selection to get the biggest turnout where it matters?

Been thinking about this the past few days.  I don't think Warren really "unites" the party, although that framework isn't necessarily the best anyway.  Castro would be a good choice.  But I lean towards thinking he should pick a woman - not saying he has to but that's where my thought process go - and I keep on coming back to the Tammys.  Duckworth or Baldwin, either would be great picks.  Electorally, I know she just got in and I don't know too much about her so just throwing it out there, but maybe Whitmer in Michigan?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the bright side of things, if Covid-19 becomes an epidemic and folks in the US suffer, it may bring home health care issues in a very focused ways.

I don’t really see a bright side to Covid-19.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Supposing Sanders wins the nomination, what's the best VP selection to get the biggest turnout where it matters?  I feel like he either has to at least offer it to Warren or Castro to unite the party, otherwise go someone from the rust belt or Midwest.  Maybe Duckworth?  Thoughts?

No Senators! It should be a popular house member from the collapsed blue firewall.

 

Edited by Jace, Basilissa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weinstein has only been found guilty on two charges. The other couple of charges were ‘predatory sexual assault’ charges that would have sent him to jail for life, and he was found not guilty on them.

I guess going forward predators will only be the guy who waits in the lane way or the park, and the predators in corporate offices are A-ok.

Anyone want to bet Harvey has a miraculous cure in health problems after a while?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

c'mon, I'm not a baby puncher.

I don't buy it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I assume the title of this thread has as much to do with this, as it has with politics.

Quote

Daredevil and flat-Earth conspiracy theorist “Mad Mike” Hughes died in a DIY rocket crash in the Barstow, California desert, local authorities, TMZ, local media, and the Associated Press reported Saturday. He was 64 years old.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Corvinus said:

I assume the title of this thread has as much to do with this, as it has with politics.

 

Prolly forgot to account for the curvature of the Earth when calculating his descent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Supposing Sanders wins the nomination, what's the best VP selection to get the biggest turnout where it matters?  I feel like he either has to at least offer it to Warren or Castro to unite the party, otherwise go someone from the rust belt or Midwest.  Maybe Duckworth?  Thoughts?

Someone younger, more moderate, and a person of color. And hopefully from and popular in a likely swing state. 

It's easy to find someone that's 2 or 3 of those things, but hard to find someone who hits all four. I kinda like Stephanie Murphy from Florida, but she's only been in Congress for 2 terms and people don't know her that well yet.

She's 42, a blue dog Democrat, Asian-American (daughter of Vietnamese refugees), represents part of the Orlando suburbs, and joined the Department of Defense as a civilian specialist after 9/11 (so she's got that national security credibility).

Also, she'd make Mike Pence spectacularly uncomfortable during the VP debate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Fez said:

Also, she'd make Mike Pence spectacularly uncomfortable during the VP debate.

This is a plus for any woman being the VP nominee.  I mean, if they do those old school debates where there just sitting at a table close together, would Pence even be allowed to participate? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Dow has been flirting with -1,000 points. I expect it will hit the 5% mark later in the afternoon, 1400 or more. Margin calls go out at 2:30, and people will then be forced to sell if they don’t have the cash to cover their margin loan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Fez said:

Someone younger, more moderate, and a person of color. And hopefully from and popular in a likely swing state. 

It's easy to find someone that's 2 or 3 of those things, but hard to find someone who hits all four. I kinda like Stephanie Murphy from Florida, but she's only been in Congress for 2 terms and people don't know her that well yet.

She's 42, a blue dog Democrat, Asian-American (daughter of Vietnamese refugees), represents part of the Orlando suburbs, and joined the Department of Defense as a civilian specialist after 9/11 (so she's got that national security credibility).

Also, she'd make Mike Pence spectacularly uncomfortable during the VP debate.

He can't go more moderate--he's almost 80, and as he's said many times before, it's not about him, it's about the movement. To take a moderate on as his VP would potentially compromise the movement more than anything else were he to die. In fact, this would read to young progressives (the selection of a moderate) as the Democratic party covertly positioning to retake control outside of the will of voters--whether that's correct or not. He has to take a moderate  progressive (and definitely a younger person). Warren is a good choice, and I already sense she's putting bad blood behind them, and perhaps in her view, the most likely avenue to the presidency is by hitching to a near 80 year old man who had a heart attack last year. 

I hate this grim talk, to be honest, but I think it absolutely must be considered, and I have little doubt this is a topic of high importance in the Sanders campaign.

Other options: Tammy Baldwin seems like a great option too. Politico floated Ayana Pressley today, and while I am super hesitant about any of the Squad filling this position (they bring a level of angry, misogynist vitriol--against them--more than any other potential candidate), I do think Pressley is relatively under the radar, and she endorsed Warren.

That said, I think he has to avoid someone who describes themselves as a socialist, but has a record of being in support/agreement with the policy positions he's running on. 

I'm curious about Stacey Abrams. I know next to nothing about her except the huge momentum she had in Georgia and a victory likely snatched from her illegally. I don't know much about her policies or stances, but whenever I see her in an interview I find her amazing. 

Edited by Simon Steele

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

Supposing Sanders wins the nomination, what's the best VP selection to get the biggest turnout where it matters?  I feel like he either has to at least offer it to Warren or Castro to unite the party, otherwise go someone from the rust belt or Midwest.  Maybe Duckworth?  Thoughts?

Warren doesn't actually unite the party, plus she would lose another Senate seat for the Democrats (MA governor is a Republican), so I don't think it's worth it to nominate her. If he wanted to make a big show of uniting the party, Klobuchar would be a much better choice, except that I don't think he could bring himself to pick a VP candidate with views so different from his own (especially considering his age).

My choice would be Tammy Baldwin.

- A popular, experienced Senator from a "battleground" state? Check.

- Would make history as a first openly gay VP candidate? Check.

- Comes from the left wing of the party, meaning that her views are a very close match to Sanders? Check.

- Can be safely replaced in the Senate by a Democratic governor? Check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shouldn’t the most important criteria be, who you want as president in the event a 78 year old drops dead in the next four years? Or decides to retire after one term?

Although frankly speaking, Sanders has an ego as big as Trump’s and I doubt he’d give up after one term. He’d run and say he’ll step down if he gets sick.

And I’m willing to bet he won’t pick a woman, or if he does, it’s someone you don’t want to see as president.

Edited by Fragile Bird

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Shouldn’t the most important criteria be, who you want as president in the event a 78 year old drops dead in the next four years?

How quaint!  Like, the best candidate should be the one most capable of taking over the presidency - and shouldn't that be not only the primary but only qualification for a VP?  Leave it to Canadians to invoke that bright-eyed essential logic.

16 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Politico floated Ayana Pressley today

Pressley is an interesting choice but I think presents more problems than benefits.  

14 minutes ago, Gorn said:

Klobuchar would be a much better choice

Regardless of ideological concerns, which I really don't give a shit about, I'm not sure Klobuchar would be a good choice because he needs someone that can deliver his message with a straight face.  I don't think Klobuchar can do that.

Edited by DMC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...