US Politics: What goes up, must come down!

[butterbumps!]

9 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

 

That said, I think he has to avoid someone who describes themselves as a socialist, but has a record of being in support/agreement with the policy positions he's running on. 

I'm curious about Stacey Abrams. I know next to nothing about her except the huge momentum she had in Georgia and a victory likely snatched from her illegally. I don't know much about her policies or stances, but whenever I see her in an interview I find her amazing. 

My understanding is that her positions are pretty simpatico with Sanders and the progressive wave such that he endorsed her campaign.   She was also endorsed by Obama, and I’d say she’s very well liked by both liberals and progressives.   I think she was for Medicare expansion rather than m4a iirc; I’d like to think she wouldn’t be too scary to moderates, bc she’s already run a campaign with toned down progressive positions on issues and done extremely well given the circumstances.   I also find her amazing in interviews and speeches- she’s what Sanders is not in that regard.  Idk, I’m here for it.   I’d be pretty excited to vote for her.   

[Fragile Bird]

Canadian. And old, too, lol!

[Centrist Simon Steele]

18 minutes ago, butterbumps! said:

My understanding is that her positions are pretty simpatico with Sanders and the progressive wave such that he endorsed her campaign.   She was also endorsed by Obama, and I’d say she’s very well liked by both liberals and progressives.   I think she was for Medicare expansion rather than m4a iirc; I’d like to think she wouldn’t be too scary to moderates, bc she’s already run a campaign with toned down progressive positions on issues and done extremely well given the circumstances.   I also find her amazing in interviews and speeches- she’s what Sanders is not in that regard.  Idk, I’m here for it.   I’d be pretty excited to vote for her.   

She seems amazing. I'll have to go do some research, but honestly, she seems like an amazing choice if she'd be willing to do it. I thought about her because people here mentioned her, but I also heard on some podcast last week--maybe Slate's Political Gabfest--that she had once said she wouldn't take a VP position, but when rumors started swirling that Bloomberg might pick her, she has since walked that stance back a bit. 

It's also interesting to think about how she ran on toned down rhetoric. Sanders is well-known behind the scenes to be a deal maker, but his rhetoric is uncompromising. I think that's a big weakness for him, and she could be a good balance to that. 

[DMC]

4 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Sanders is well-known behind the scenes to be a deal maker

Good one!

[Maithanet]

14 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

that she had once said she wouldn't take a VP position, but when rumors started swirling that Bloomberg might pick her, she has since walked that stance back a bit.

I have seen her explicitly saying that she WOULD take a VP position.  I think it might be that she wouldn't take a VP position for someone who hasn't won the nomination yet (which was floated as a possible Biden move to shore up support with women and AA voters). 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Abrams or Castro will probably be the VP regardless of who wins, but they’re both especially match well for Sanders. There aren’t going to be too many similar people to carry his message, but those two are close enough and offer a lot of other aspects that Sanders lacks.

[Maithanet]

Is Abrams really qualified to be VP?  I suppose Buttigieg and Trump kinda blew the top off of normal understandings of "qualified", but six years as minority leader of the Georgia House feels pretty thin.  Real shame she couldn't pull off the statewide win (for a lot of reasons). 

[Zorral]

It gets weirder and weirder to me how concerned people are with Bernie's assessments of Caribbean and Central American countries back in the 60's, 70's and 80's to both throw off the hegmony over their lives of the USA corporate exploitive boot and the murderous surrogates that ran their countries in favor of the USA corporate exploitive, plundering boot. Also, as if the US treated women and LGBQT people any better in those days, and is still treating people of color again increasingly hideously.

It comes across as though nobody's noticed that the rethugs -- and others --are very pleased to cuddle up actual murderous, plundering, torturing, exploitive rulers and their regimes -- who also interfering with our elections -- such as Duterte, Kim Jong-un, Bolsanaro, Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud (whose countrymen destroyed the Twin Towers), Putin, Modi, János Áder. These cuddle-uppers also protect and support homegrown nazis and fascists and rapists -- and often are nazis, fascists and rapists all their own selves, in one way and another.

But! Bernie and Warren and the Squad, who have support and popularity -- (yet another reason, btw, that early voting is a rotten thing, because Warren would probably have gotten more support in NV, if not for that) -- they are the triple apocalypse of the Dem party, democracy and LOSING because Cuba and Fidel.  So the only solution is to either stay home or force them to bow out in favor of ... proven losers?

Hysterical that Fidel, still dead, is still having an affect on US presidential elections as he did his entire life as President of Cuba.  Who had more sense of how to deal with national emergencies than anybody in all those decades, while we here in the US have voted in a president who fires the person who is to coordinate global medical emergency action.

By the way, it wasn't Florida's Cuban Americans who didn't elect Hillary, for all her Cuba bashing. It was the good old white boyz of the west and north of Florida who did.

Feh>Spit.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Is Abrams really qualified to be VP?  I suppose Buttigieg and Trump kinda blew the top off of normal understandings of "qualified", but six years as minority leader of the Georgia House feels pretty thin.  Real shame she couldn't pull off the statewide win (for a lot of reasons). 

The precedent is set. There are no minimum requires anymore outside of being 35 and a natural born citizen once a failed businessman turned reality T.V. star becomes president.

[HexMachina]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

This is a plus for any woman being the VP nominee.  I mean, if they do those old school debates where there just sitting at a table close together, would Pence even be allowed to participate? 

Maybe if he asks nicely his wife can sit in on the debate?

[Lollygag]

What makes me think Abrams won't go for Sanders' VP spot (or maybe any others) is that she strikes me as very independent and liking to do things her own way and in her own time. Being part of and ultimately defined by someone else's movement and such an inflexible one at that seems directly at odds with her independence.

She's said she wants to be Pres by 2040 so she's in no hurry. Governor was a great choice for her to get there and to do so while not under the yoke of national party politics or its leaders. She'd be able to define herself.

 

[butterbumps!]

17 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

What makes me think Abrams won't go for Sanders' VP spot (or maybe any others) is that she strikes me as very independent and liking to do things her own way and in her own time. Being part of and ultimately defined by someone else's movement and such an inflexible one at that seems directly at odds with her independence.

She's said she wants to be Pres by 2040 so she's in no hurry. Governor was a great choice for her to get there and to do so while not under the yoke of national party politics or its leaders. She'd be able to define herself.

 

Do you mean simply by virtue of her being someone’s VP and not winning the presidency in her own right?   If not that, I don’t see her being Sanders VP as detrimental or pigeonholing into someone else’s vision.   I think she’s appealing to both the Sanders and Obama wings of the party without being explicitly beholden to either one.  

I like others’ suggestions about Baldwin, and agree she’d be pretty awesome and certainly incredibly well prepared.   Her resume is great.   But I think Abrams has that fall in love with, unification potential dems seem unable to resist.   

[Jaxom 1974]

2 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

He can't go more moderate--he's almost 80, and as he's said many times before, it's not about him, it's about the movement. 

If one believes this about him.  Because, again, if it were truly about the movement, he'd not be running and throwing support behind Warren or someone else who will actually be able to work towards enacting things. 

Instead, he obviously believes he's the only one who can actually do things, but with that record of legislating that he holds, it has to be suspected he's probably better as an ideas guy, not an actual driving force. 

 

[Lollygag]

Just now, butterbumps! said:

Do you mean simply by virtue of her being someone’s VP and not winning the presidency in her own right?   If not that, I don’t see her being Sanders VP as detrimental or pigeonholing into someone else’s vision.   I think she’s appealing to both the Sanders and Obama wings of the party without being explicitly beholden to either one.  

I like others’ suggestions about Baldwin, and agree she’d be pretty awesome and certainly incredibly well prepared.   Her resume is great.   But I think Abrams has that fall in love with, unification potential dems seem unable to resist.   

Both I guess. VPs all too often are relegated to being a sort of adoring paperweight in the public eye at least. Just my impression, but I think she'd only agree to more of a partnership and have terms for that before agreeing. It's politically risky in general to be involved with any sort of movement. Ask the Tea Party. I think some of Sanders views are here to stay, or at least some of them should be, but I'm much less confident of the long-term viability of any "movement" itself. If Abrams was older with fewer years ahead of her, I'd put less weight on this.

Definitely agree with the bold.

[Maithanet]

Going further, IF Abrams could become a superstar for the Obama/establishment side of the party while still remaining acceptable to the progressives, that would be a huge win for Sanders.  Having a VP that brings in a difference constituency is really helpful, doubly so for a divisive figure like Sanders. 

[Kalbear]

I'm not voting for sanders unless he pledges to have Selina Meyer as his running mate. She's young, popular and has a strong following. 

[DMC]

If Sanders - or anyone else - asks Abrams to be the VP, she will undoubtedly accept.  She'd be stupid not to, as would any other ambitious politician.  No one blames the VP for losing candidacies, it's all upside.

Still have no idea what Sanders is thinking about in this regard though.  I like how @Tywin et al. has identified Abrams and Castro as "probably" being the VP choices though - regardless of nominee.  Can't help but think of this:

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

8 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I'm not voting for sanders unless he pledges to have Selina Meyer as his running mate. She's young, popular and has a strong following. 

You should've gone Selena Gomez.

Young, Latina, has a sound potential (c'mon that pun was awesome) to mobilize millenials, and is from Texas, which I have been told here will turn purple. Ok, I admit I had to google her to see where she was from.

Anyway, was also tentatively thinking about who might be a potential VP pick for Sanders. It has to be someone who is a bit more moderate, preferably someone of colour (a woman of colour would be a double win) to get a bit off the old white man smell of his presidential bid. Then the next question whether someone from the south or from rust belt is the better choice.

Oh yeah, before I forget it. Whoever brought up the argument about Cubans in Florida not voting for Sadners. Get real, it's not like Florida is a blue leaning state. It's a purple state at the best of times, and realistically rather red leaning. Let a Democrat win the Govenorship there and we'll talk again. So would the good people please stop giving a dayum about Florida? The one good thing about the rising sea levels is that state disappearing.

[Jace, Extat]

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

  Real shame she couldn't pull off the statewide win (for a lot of reasons). 

Like being a loser? Hey maybe Beto can buckle up for the gig! I'm sure Florida would be back in play if Bill Nelson ran! Or why doesn't HRC fill the spot? 

If we really want to dream big though I say we go after that Amy McGrath character. She only lost her house race by low double digits so that means Kentucky just went blue! 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Hey maybe Beto can buckle up for the gig!

See, you say you don't punch babies, and then three hours later you're out here attacking Beto.  Doesn't fit.