Formula One 2020

[Loge]

Well, it's Sainz going to Ferrari and Ricciardo to McLaren. That leaves a seat at Renault. Not particularly attractive. Looks like Vettel is out. Funny how all of this happens before there has been a single race. 

[Werthead]

Vettel won 4 world championships with Renault power and has that relationship, but they'll have to really sell it to make him interested. Vettel is excellent at technical feedback and knowledge, which would be an asset to any team, and he's much more relaxed and chill when he's not in line to win the WC, but the question is if he will be happy to step out of the front tier of F1, even temporarily.

If anything, Alonso might be more likely to come back with Renault, but again I can't see any point to him doing that to just be trundling around again looking for 7th place finishes (maybe a cheeky 5th when there's carnage up front) in a team which is hesitant about committing for the long term.

[williamjm]

8 hours ago, Werthead said:

Vettel won 4 world championships with Renault power and has that relationship, but they'll have to really sell it to make him interested. Vettel is excellent at technical feedback and knowledge, which would be an asset to any team, and he's much more relaxed and chill when he's not in line to win the WC, but the question is if he will be happy to step out of the front tier of F1, even temporarily.

If anything, Alonso might be more likely to come back with Renault, but again I can't see any point to him doing that to just be trundling around again looking for 7th place finishes (maybe a cheeky 5th when there's carnage up front) in a team which is hesitant about committing for the long term.

It's maybe also questionable whether Renault would be willing to pay the sort of salary Vettel or Alonso would demand.

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, williamjm said:

It's maybe also questionable whether Renault would be willing to pay the sort of salary Vettel or Alonso would demand.

I think the drivers know that F1's big thing going forwards is going to be working under a stricter budget, which means teams won't necessarily be willing to spend the kind of salaries they have in the past, so they might be more flexible than you'd expect.

[Loge]

9 hours ago, Werthead said:

I think the drivers know that F1's big thing going forwards is going to be working under a stricter budget, which means teams won't necessarily be willing to spend the kind of salaries they have in the past, so they might be more flexible than you'd expect.

Driver salaries are not included in the budget cap, so they should actually go up. The big teams will look for ways to spend money not covered by the cap and hiring the best drivers whatever the cost is one of them. We can also expect all sorts of shady deals with suppliers that move cost up the supply chain so it won't show up in the team's budget any more.

[Werthead]

3 hours ago, Loge said:

Driver salaries are not included in the budget cap, so they should actually go up. The big teams will look for ways to spend money not covered by the cap and hiring the best drivers whatever the cost is one of them. We can also expect all sorts of shady deals with suppliers that move cost up the supply chain so it won't show up in the team's budget any more.

I'm not sure about that. Ferrari may take that view, but everyone else up to Mercedes and certainly the likes of Renault will be looking at the logic of spending 30% or more of their budget on top of their existing spend on a single driver and trying to see if that makes sense.

It's interesting that although Renault are interested in Alonso and Vettel (and apparently have made more serious overtures to Vettel), the money they are putting on the table is pretty low compared to what they'd expect from Ferrari or Mercedes, as Renault can't justify those costs. And apparently Renault are leaning towards one of three drivers in their young drivers programme if the former champions are not interested in that kind of money. It's just more economical for them. Red Bull has also taken that view for many years, and even Ferrari may have to change their mind looking at Leclerc, who is by their standards a bargain.

[Loge]

Renault has an obvious problem. They're spending big money and aren't successful. That's not sustainable. I wouldn't be surprised if they pull the plug. Not so sure about Mercedes either. They got good value for their money but they might declare mission accomplished and leave. They'll have three customer teams in 2021 (while Renault has none). Wasn't it supposed to be impossible to supply four teams? Or will they enlarge their factory? 

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, Loge said:

Renault has an obvious problem. They're spending big money and aren't successful. That's not sustainable. I wouldn't be surprised if they pull the plug. Not so sure about Mercedes either. They got good value for their money but they might declare mission accomplished and leave. They'll have three customer teams in 2021 (while Renault has none). Wasn't it supposed to be impossible to supply four teams? Or will they enlarge their factory? 

Their spend is about half that of Mercedes, Ferrari or Red Bull, and it's clear (from the Netflix documentary series, amongst other things) that they've struggled. Their logic is that the proposed budget cap was one of the reasons they wanted to get back into F1 so they never spent what they needed to compete with the big boys, on the rationale they'd have to raise funding and then drop it dramatically, so they'd just stick with the budget restrictions before they were formally introduced, which worked well in 2018 and much less well in 2019 (although still enough to stay in the top five teams), but might stand them in good stead for when the cap comes in.

And yes, without customer teams, the logic for Renault staying in F1 becomes a lot iffier. I could see them leaving. Mercedes leaving I think is also more likely than people realise, but still not probable at the moment. The budget restrictions seem to be something they're confident they can work within, whilst Ferrari have much greater doubts.

Renault and Mercedes, two of the biggest names in car manufacturing in the world, leaving would put the sport in some considerable jeopardy, without other big names coming in to replace them. Christian Horner's dream idea - of there being no constructors in F1, only engine suppliers and customer teams - might end up coming true after all.

[Loge]

Apparently Renault have decided to stay in Formula One. Meanwhile, Williams is up. for sale.

 https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/52847040

They have dumped their title sponsor too.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Not exactly Formula 1, but Formula E, but the story is too funny not to share (if you hadn't heard it, yet).

Since racing is also closed there, they've decided to do virtual races instead. The circuit they were supposed to drive real, but did so virtually was Berlin.

AUDI is one of the bigger teams there, and that team is pretty much the brainchild of Hans-Jürgen Abt. His son, Daniel, is occupying one of the cockpits, and this is his story. Small background he is one of only a handful of drivers, who participated in all 63 or so Formula E Grand Prix. Anyway, without further introduction, let's get to the main event.

He apparently sucked badly during the first virtual races (he is not bad on the real tracks tho). Then, he showed a much improved performance for the virtual Berlin GP, which accidently also happened to be the first GP he won in real life. So he finished the qualifying quite well, and finished the race on position three. What's odd was, was not just his vastly improved performance, but also that his camera was not working during the race, you know technical difficulties. You probably all guessed what's coming now. Yes, turns out he let a ringer drive for him. The story broke, because he couldn't show for the post race PC which he was due, because of his podium finish.

Not the best of the ideas in the best of times. But since Audi was one of the main actors in the emission scandal, and also had to release a lot of worker during the corona pandemic, Abt now damaging the integrity of the competition was a bit too much for the AUDI, whose image has tkaen quite a hit for the aforementioned reasons. So the fired Daniel Abt. That's one way to wreck your driving career, I guess.

[Wilbur]

On 5/15/2020 at 9:16 AM, Werthead said:

...Christian Horner's dream idea - of there being no constructors in F1, only engine suppliers and customer teams - might end up coming true after all.

This would shape up a little like CART in the decade before the Indy-CART split, and specifically similar to the look and feel of the Indy 500, where teams would create or purchase chassis, engine, tires, etc. and combine them in their own unique assemblies.  As a result, the cars that qualified for the race would often be a melange of different combos, and I always thought that this made for exciting fields most of the time as teams came up for very different solutions to the problems of racing.

It also would give results like 1992: Roberto Guerrero's qualifying with the Buick tubo v6 engine at over over 230MPH, and then going out in the most hilarious crash in racing history on the parade lap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Indianapolis_500

[Werthead]

Williams up for sale, which is sad news. Hopefully they can find a buyer. They had some great form in 2012-17, it'd be a shame for them to disappear after just a couple of years of bad results.

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Williams up for sale, which is sad news. Hopefully they can find a buyer. They had some great form in 2012-17, it'd be a shame for them to disappear after just a couple of years of bad results.

As someone who started watching F1 in the early 90s it feels as if Williams are just as synonymous with the sport as Ferrari and McLaren.

[Loge]

15 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Not exactly Formula 1, but Formula E, but the story is too funny not to share (if you hadn't heard it, yet).

Since racing is also closed there, they've decided to do virtual races instead. The circuit they were supposed to drive real, but did so virtually was Berlin.

AUDI is one of the bigger teams there, and that team is pretty much the brainchild of Hans-Jürgen Abt. His son, Daniel, is occupying one of the cockpits, and this is his story. Small background he is one of only a handful of drivers, who participated in all 63 or so Formula E Grand Prix. Anyway, without further introduction, let's get to the main event.

He apparently sucked badly during the first virtual races (he is not bad on the real tracks tho). Then, he showed a much improved performance for the virtual Berlin GP, which accidently also happened to be the first GP he won in real life. So he finished the qualifying quite well, and finished the race on position three. What's odd was, was not just his vastly improved performance, but also that his camera was not working during the race, you know technical difficulties. You probably all guessed what's coming now. Yes, turns out he let a ringer drive for him. The story broke, because he couldn't show for the post race PC which he was due, because of his podium finish.

Not the best of the ideas in the best of times. But since Audi was one of the main actors in the emission scandal, and also had to release a lot of worker during the corona pandemic, Abt now damaging the integrity of the competition was a bit too much for the AUDI, whose image has tkaen quite a hit for the aforementioned reasons. So the fired Daniel Abt. That's one way to wreck your driving career, I guess.

Well, there seems to be a bit more to it. Daniel Abt got in as the owner's son. Then Audi bought the team. Looks like they have been looking for an excuse to dump him.

[Loge]

Meanwhile, we have a calendar for the European part of the season. Eight races: Austria (2x), Hungary, UK (2x), Spain, Belgium, Italy. Japan, Singapore and Azerbaijan have been cancelled. They'll be hard pressed to get a championship together, though. That requires races on three continents and with the Coronavirus cases in the US, Mexico, and Brazil it doesn't look like we'll see a race in the Americas. The BBC speculates about races in Hockenheim and Mugello instead.

[red snow]

5 hours ago, Loge said:

Meanwhile, we have a calendar for the European part of the season. Eight races: Austria (2x), Hungary, UK (2x), Spain, Belgium, Italy. Japan, Singapore and Azerbaijan have been cancelled. They'll be hard pressed to get a championship together, though. That requires races on three continents and with the Coronavirus cases in the US, Mexico, and Brazil it doesn't look like we'll see a race in the Americas. The BBC speculates about races in Hockenheim and Mugello instead.

Is that really the case? I guess it sort of makes sense if you want to call it a world series but you could argue the participation is already international and that coronavirus is a legitimate reason for not having a widespread season. I'd think the number of races are more important and the doubling up of races in venues more controversial.

Hockenheim and mugello would be excellent alternatives - especially given how good hockenheim was last year - I'd take two races there in the hope it rains again.

Ross brawn said that Bahrain has two FIA approved tracks so it would make sense to have two there and Abu dhabi is keen to have a race. That just means they need to have a race in the americas or maybe Australia (which seem to be over the virus). It makes sense that they are completely avoiding city tracks though as it requires people to prepare it and it would be impossible not to have spectators.

[Loge]

Apparently, FIA is going to waive the requirement: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2020-calendar-european-races-championship-brawn/4801481/

As for the city tracks, the effort is just insane. To hold the Singapore race in September, they' have had to start with the construction work in May. Melbourne is probably a lot easier, but they'd still have to occupy the park for a month or so, which wouldn't sit well with its other users. I think Canada also has this issue, IIRC. 

 

[Werthead]

3 hours ago, Loge said:

Apparently, FIA is going to waive the requirement: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/2020-calendar-european-races-championship-brawn/4801481/

As for the city tracks, the effort is just insane. To hold the Singapore race in September, they' have had to start with the construction work in May. Melbourne is probably a lot easier, but they'd still have to occupy the park for a month or so, which wouldn't sit well with its other users. I think Canada also has this issue, IIRC. 

 

Canada also has the weather issue. The first half of September is the absolute latest they can run the race before it gets too cold for it to be viable, and even that is pushing it.

Hungary and Spain are apparently considering adding a second race each, Italy has a second track which could also host a race and Bahrain is considering a second race. China is also apparently back on the agenda and maybe Vietnam as well, although that's a bit more up in the air.

The surprise idea is that Imola was just awarded FIA Tier 1 certification, and apparently they believe they can get the track ready for an F1 race with just a couple of weeks' turnaround, so, although it's a bit on the outside of probability at the moment, we could see a return to San Marino in 2020.

[Wilbur]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Canada also has the weather issue. The first half of September is the absolute latest they can run the race before it gets too cold for it to be viable, and even that is pushing it.

A crisp November F1 race in Canada with studded snow tired would be VERY entertaining.

[Loge]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

The surprise idea is that Imola was just awarded FIA Tier 1 certification, and apparently they believe they can get the track ready for an F1 race with just a couple of weeks' turnaround, so, although it's a bit on the outside of probability at the moment, we could see a return to San Marino in 2020.

Imola used to host the "GP of San Marino", but isn't actually located there, just like the Nürburgring isn't in Luxemburg.