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King17

Which great bastard is the greatest?

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Daemon Blackfyre, he was the reason of 50 years of trouble. And his legacy still lives  on.

I would change my vote depending on Bloodraven's actions in wow.

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Shiera Seastar. Because she is still alive and in significantly better condition than Bloodraven. And because she is the shadow figure behind many important events of ASOIAF. Shiera is shadowbinder Quaithe and the Three-Eyed Crow; she helped Dany during Rhaego's birth, and Rhaego survived only thanks to Shiera's intervention; she's ex-teacher of Mirri Maz Duur, maester Marwyn and Euron Greyjoy. So far she is the only Targaryen that had sizable influence in both Westeros and Essos. Bloodraven's Old Gods' power is limited to Westeros, and Bittersteel thru Golden Company had influence only on small part of Essos. Other Targaryens were mostly remaining at 7K, while Shiera is the only member of their family (until Dany) that had traveled all over the world, and managed to survive on her own without protection of her family and Iron Throne.

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Shiera is the one who provokes our curiosity but it is Bloodraven who has been serving the realm for the longest.  Bear in mind that being great doesn't mean the person is a hero.  It simply means the person who will have the deepest impact on the landscape.  

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I’d say it was Bittersteel. His legacy lasted longer than all the others in the most important manner. Sure, Bloodraven is still alive, and he’s going to be essential to Bran’s storyline, and sure, Daemon Blackfyre spawned five generations’ worth of rebels, but it was Aegor Rivers (or rather Aegor Bittersteel) who ensured the survival of the Blackfyre cause all those years. He was the one who formed the Golden Company, the one that’s currently conquering parts of Westeros and is preparing to finally put a Blackfyre (in disguise) on the Iron Throne. This will also come into play when Daenerys finds out about fAegon. Bittersteel’s actions have impacted the most people and will have serious repercussions in the future books. 

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7 minutes ago, James Steller said:

I’d say it was Bittersteel. His legacy lasted longer than all the others in the most important manner. Sure, Bloodraven is still alive, and he’s going to be essential to Bran’s storyline, and sure, Daemon Blackfyre spawned five generations’ worth of rebels, but it was Aegor Rivers (or rather Aegor Bittersteel) who ensured the survival of the Blackfyre cause all those years. He was the one who formed the Golden Company, the one that’s currently conquering parts of Westeros and is preparing to finally put a Blackfyre (in disguise) on the Iron Throne. This will also come into play when Daenerys finds out about fAegon. Bittersteel’s actions have impacted the most people and will have serious repercussions in the future books. 

Whaaat? And what about all the characters (namely, every last one of them) that Bloodraven skinchanged into and made them do X, causing Y to happen, yadda yadda yadda? Clearly, no one has had a bigger impact on the story and its characters. Not even Martin! :lol:

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On 3/1/2020 at 3:38 PM, Megorova said:

Shiera Seastar. Because she is still alive and in significantly better condition than Bloodraven. And because she is the shadow figure behind many important events of ASOIAF. Shiera is shadowbinder Quaithe and the Three-Eyed Crow; she helped Dany during Rhaego's birth, and Rhaego survived only thanks to Shiera's intervention; she's ex-teacher of Mirri Maz Duur, maester Marwyn and Euron Greyjoy. So far she is the only Targaryen that had sizable influence in both Westeros and Essos. Bloodraven's Old Gods' power is limited to Westeros, and Bittersteel thru Golden Company had influence only on small part of Essos. Other Targaryens were mostly remaining at 7K, while Shiera is the only member of their family (until Dany) that had traveled all over the world, and managed to survive on her own without protection of her family and Iron Throne.

Explain.

I can believe her being Quaithe. I can even believe Shiera is the reason why Dany got three petrified dragon eggs as a wedding. But the Three-Eyed Crow? And what does she have to do with Rhaego?

Explain. And how old would Shiera be if she is still alive...

To me, until proven otherwise, it's a toss-up between Bittersteel and Bloodraven. Whoever comes out on top of the other depends on what happens in the last two books.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

But the Three-Eyed Crow? And what does she have to do with Rhaego?

Explain. And how old would Shiera be if she is still alive...

She was born between 178 and 184, so now she is between 116 and 122 years old, but she looks much much much younger than that. She's a user of blood magic, and she doesn't age because she is/was bathing in blood+magic spells. She's same as her mother Serenei. GRRM said about Serenei "some said that she was much older than the king, and preserved her beauty by the practice of dark arts." - https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Shiera_Seastar

I'm 100% sure that Serenei of Lys and Larra Rogare is the same person. Look at their "photos", it's the same person.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/6/6a/Larra_Rogare.png

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/8/89/Serenei_of_Lys.jpg

I'm saying that they are the same person not just because they look very much alike, they look identical - they have the same eye color, identical proportions of their faces, identical hair-lines and shape of ears, shape of lips, chins, noses, etc.

According to AWOIAF-Wikia Larra Rogare died in 145 in Lys. Look at her page in a column under the picture - https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Larra_Rogare

The source of information about her supposed death, link 4 on the bottom of that page, in section References, is this - https://www.westeros.org/BoD/Transcripts/Entry/The_World_of_Ice_and_Fire_AMA

"November 09, 2014

The World of Ice and Fire “AMA”

Following the release of The World of Ice and Fire, we invited players on the game to an “AMA” inspired session of talk about the book." " Elmer says, “I had a question. Larra Rogare is mentioned to have left Westeros at some point…do we know when? I assume she’s ot present in our timeline?” ........ Balerion says, “Larra’s not around. Let me see…” ........... Balerion says, “There it is. She goes back to Lys in 139, and passes away in 145.”"

And this is the text from the book: The Targaryen Kings, Aegon III "His brother, Prince Viserys—who in his last years served as his Hand—had the gift of charm, but he himself grew stern after his wife abandoned him and their children for her native Lys." Viserys II " Yet she gave him three children before she at last returned to her native Lys. ........ The last of Viserys’s children was his only daughter, Naerys, born in 138 AC."

In the book there is information that Larra's last child was born in 138, and that after giving birth to three children she returned to Lys, so it happened sometime after 138. Though there is NO information about the year of her death. The year 145AC is not the year of Larra's death. It isn't recorder in the World book when exactly Larra died. That's because after returning to Lys, she "reinvented" herself and became Serenei. At the time when she returned to Targaryen court under her new identity, she was 63-69 years old. Though does the woman on that picture look like she's in her 60s? No. She looks like she's in her late 30s-early 40s. That's because, same as later her daughter Shiera, Larra/Serenei was using blood magic to stop her aging. In The Sworn Sword novel Egg said about Shiera "Lady Shiera does. Lord Bloodraven's paramour. She bathes in blood to keep her beauty." <- beauty and youth, because if she aged, she wouldn't have stayed pretty.

IF I'm right and Larra and Serenei is the same person, then on their photos we can see that blood magic is indeed very effective as a means to prevent aging. Apparently with the usage of blood magic the aging process stops at certain point, and whoever is using this sort of method will forever look same age/won't look older than that stopping point.

Thus, even though Shiera's age is 115+, she looks much younger than that, my guess is she looks like she's 30-40 years old (her silver-gold hair partially became platinum-white (Dany saw what Shiera looks like, when Quaithe "smiling stars in a daylight sky" took off her mask-made-of-starlight, when Dany was giving birth to Rhaego, in chapter Dany IX of AGOT), from Qarth to Vaes Tollor Quaithe arrived on a camel (she's still in a good enough physical shape to ride horses/camels), when she and Dany were watching performance of fire-mage and Quaithe touched Dany's hand, Dany didn't thought that her hand is wrinkled or something like that, thus Quaithe/Shiera has "young" hands and not granny hands, etc.).

Shiera/Quaithe was assisting Dany during Rhaego's birth. She used on them some sort of magic because of which Dany's consciousness-POV was switching between her body and the body of unborn yet baby inside her. Dany saw Shiera as smiling and whispering stars, as shadow wings, as ghosts with blue-green eyes with Valyrian glass candles in their hands, as Viserys that was twisting her nipples (nipple stimulation is a method of inducing labor). Maester Marwyn was also there, Dany saw him as Jorah who warmed his hands above burning blazier and then melted in the air/dissapeared. Mirri said to Dany that Marwyn was her teacher, and also she said that at Asshai she was learning magic from a shadowbinder, that shadowbinder was Qauithe. Marwyn was also learning magic from Quaithe, that's how he met Mirri, they both were Shiera's disciples. So when Dany's life was in danger, Mirri used magic and summoned both of her ex-teachers into Drogo's tent, to assist her with Rhaego's birth. Just read thru beginning of chapter Dany IX AGOT, it's all there. 

And about Shiera as the 3EC you can read here:

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150877-the-three-eyed-crow-is-old-nan-not-bloodraven/&amp;do=findComment&amp;comment=8166290

though at that time I was still in the process of figuring out what is what and who is who. For example at first I thought that those ghosts in Dany's fevered dream were Targaryen kings, and only a bit later I realised that it was Shiera Seastar.

 

If Shiera discovered a way to stay permanently unaging, then she became immortal, or fairly close to it. Besides her other accomplishments, that's what makes her the greatest out of all Aegon's children.

Edited by Megorova

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Posted (edited)
On 3/1/2020 at 10:42 AM, King17 said:

So who do you guys think is the greatest of Aegon IVs great bastards and why?

Do you mean by greatest by volume, by mass, by age, or by longevity?

By mass: Daemon or Aegor, not sure which.

By volume: Daemon or Aegor, not sure which.

By age: Daemon, he was the eldest.

By longevity: Brynden, he has lived the longest.

Edited by Ser Leftwich

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