U.S. Politics: By Gawd King, That's Joe Biden's Music!!!!

[Kalbear]

Just now, SpaceChampion said:

Then you're being irrational, because "guilt by association" is literally a logical fallacy, "association fallacy".

So? In a perfect world being insulted constantly would never be a particular issue either, because unless those insults were accurate they would be meaningless. 

But yes, I think it's reasonable to associate Chapo with Sanders given the prevalence of Sanders surrogates and active staff who show up on the show. Why wouldn't it be?

[SpaceChampion]

Well, if you don't have to follow rules of logic, then 10 points for Gryffindor!!!

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, SpaceChampion said:

Well, if you don't have to follow rules of logic, then 10 points for Gryffindor!!!

I'm not disagreeing. It's entirely a logical fallacy, and that matters fuckall for politics or how people view others. If you see someone hanging out with nazis, chances are good you're going to think of that person as a nazi regardless of what logical fallacy that might fall into.

[SpaceChampion]

20 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I'm not disagreeing. It's entirely a logical fallacy, and that matters fuckall for politics or how people view others. If you see someone hanging out with nazis, chances are good you're going to think of that person as a nazi regardless of what logical fallacy that might fall into.

Yes, the Cootie theory.

Jordan Peterson taking a photo with a bunch of Nazis waving the swastika or the Confederate flag, is definitely a case of cootie transference.

Anyone appearing on any podcast with an audience is using what media you can.  No cooties transferred.

Is Hilary hanging with Kissinger cootie transference?  Is Biden working with segregationists cootie transference?

[Kalbear]

Also, uh, @Jeor - are you going to spill about how good it was? I assume @Jace, Basilissa will say it's fantastic.

 

[Kalbear]

Mark Meadows is going to be the non-acting Chief of Staff, and Mulvaney is going to be special envoy to North Ireland or some bullshit. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

I'm assuming you're talking about this post. If you read the context, it's a lot clearer what I was talking about, which is your dismissing the ACA (and other things Obama did) as doing nothing. Which you did. 

So to be really, really clear - what I accused you of is saying that the ACA was worthless and caused more harm, and that my son's ability to get treatment for his cancer was essentially worthless. 

Never did that. I told a personal story about how ACA helped my son, and also hurt us (why I want M4A), but I never mentioned your son, never brought him up, etc. That was you. I may have misread it, but you still laid that at my feet.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

This is so rife with irony, it's like a textbook example.  You are right, it's often unfair to group one's thoughts into some category you then employ to denigrate.  Like "Bernie Bros."  Or, "centrists."

 

Yes, so ironic, that I eventually started getting more and more pissy like some of the posters here. It was actually pretty illuminating digging through those old threads looking for an old post to see how much my attitude has changed in just 8 weeks. I've often wondered if I haven't been patient enough sometimes, but I looked back and was pretty surprised how long I didn't decide to roll in the mud. My use of centrist was a direct response about being tired of Bernie Bro representing the whole of his base.

[Kalbear]

17 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Never did that. I told a personal story about how ACA helped my son, and also hurt us (why I want M4A), but I never mentioned your son, never brought him up, etc. That was you. I may have misread it, but you still laid that at my feet.

Then I'll be more clear. There are a number of Sanders supporters who consistently state that if they can't get their candidate - or M4A - that it is not worth anything. And when we bring up actual points about who has been affected and impacted, and how Trump actually hurts us right now, it's dismissed as not mattering enough. 

I did lay that desire - to throw it all away because it wasn't enough for you - at your feet. I still suspect that is how you feel - that if Biden gets in or Trump gets in doesn't matter to you, because it's all just the same.

[Larry of the Lawn]

That Trump press conference today was 

[ThinkerX]

Meanwhile, lost in the mutual recrimination's here, the Trump campaign is suing both CNN and the NY Times.  Probably mere harassment, but should these cases somehow advance, the Discovery process should be fascinating.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-campaign-sues-cnn-over-false-and-defamatory-statements-seeks-millions-in-damages/ar-BB10QqQO?ocid=msnclassic

EXCLUSIVE: President Trump’s re-election campaign filed a libel lawsuit against CNN on Friday for publishing “false and defamatory” statements about seeking Russia’s help in the 2020 election.

"The complaint alleges CNN was aware of the falsity at the time it published them but did so for the intentional purpose of hurting the campaign while misleading its own readers in the process... the campaign filed this lawsuit against CNN and the preceding suits against The New York Times and The Washington Post to hold the publishers accountable for their reckless false reporting and also to establish the truth,” Senior Legal Adviser to Donald J. Trump for President, Inc. Jenna Ellis told Fox News.

[Martell Spy]

Same old Republicans. Who are you going to believe, them, or your lying eyes?

 

Quote

 

Unsurprisingly, Trump’s comments generated a negative stir. While pushing for cuts to entitlement programs has been GOP orthodoxy for many years, the idea is deeply unpopular with the American public. Shortly after the town hall ended, White House officials (including Trump) got busy doing some damage control.

Press secretary Stephanie Grisham responded on Twitter to a story from the Daily Beast about how Democrats like Joe Biden were already messaging on Trump’s entitlement comments by calling the premise of the article “fake news.”

“Fake news — POTUS was taking about cutting deficits, NOT entitlements,” Grisham tweeted.

Trump: “We’ll be cutting” entitlement programs. White House: He didn’t really mean that.

 

Following his Fox News town hall, Stephanie Grisham and Kellyanne Conway denied that Trump said what he said.

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/6/21168038/trump-on-entitlements-fox-news-town-hall

[Jeor]

4 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Also, uh, @Jeor - are you going to spill about how good it was? I assume @Jace, Basilissa will say it's fantastic.

 

Hah....if you're referring to Romney's vote to convict, I did say in my post that if the Dems only got Romney and a couple of others, it won't be enough for a moral victory. And they didn't even get the couple of others.

[Larry of the Lawn]

If you go through the screenshots in the photo archive there is tons of abuse and harassment from supporters of all campaigns.  This thing is self reported so some of it is just bad language, other stuff slurs, threats, and harassment.  Nsfw.  Not just the "Bernie Brothers" doing this.

[SpaceChampion]

The narrative is false.

 

 

[Fragile Bird]

I just watched a clip of Trump explaining why Elizabeth Warren lost.

“It’s because she’s not a nice person. She’s mean. People don’t like mean people, they like nice people.”

”Like me.”

[Zorral]

Political watchers and miners here might find this piece as to what happens with a campaign staff when the campaign is abruptly shut down, as it usually is shut down abruptly:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/us/politics/venmo-2020-campaign-staff.html?

This is one of the small, parallel economies created via the political-industrial machine, evidently. But this particular one has arisen due to the tech industry of online money transfer and payment apps.

 

[sologdin]

narrative is false.

unsurprising.  a certain amount of confirmation bias, then, in red-scared liberal journalists who are too blinkered by reflexive crypto-mccarthyism to undertake merciless critical self-assessment.  of course they were always already gonna overemphasize the deviations from standard by opponents to their left while failing to recognize the deviations by their own side, a seeming kuhnian paradigm in action.

that said, sanders supporters need simply to act better than the naive liberals and thuggish conservatives in the race.  one can be the most civil person in the room while engaging in a critique that crushes the opponent's position. some may interpret that crushing of ideas to be a personal attack, which simply confirms rather than refutes the point.

[Gaston de Foix]

I've been pondering a VP pick for Joe from the perspective of best helping him win 2020 (yes yes, I know, totally premature).  Here are my preferences and I'd be curious to hear reactions, particularly those that take into account the turnout/margins in the 2016/8 elections: 

1. Tammy Baldwin: brings a homestate bump in WI.  Woman + LGTBQ.  WI is is the reddest of the WI/PA/MI trio and Dems need a clean sweep of all three if everything else is a repeat of 2016. The world in which the Dems lose MI and PA is a world where they probably also lose WI but the reverse is not true.  Cons: Not African American or Latina.  Will trigger a special election in WI at a time when control of the Senate will be narrowly held either way. 

2. Gretchen Whitmer: brings a homestate bump in MI.  Woman + Governor.  Cons: WI probably more important than MI and hasn't been on the job very long. 

3.  Amy Klobuchar:  Woman + purple state senator.  Good debater and endorser at key juncture.  Strong reputation in the Senate.  Cons: doesn't bring a state or bring racial diversity to the ticket. 

4. Kamala Harris:  Woman + African American.  Good debater and from a similar wing of the party.  Obama is a fan.  Cons: doesn't bring a homestate bump or generate much excitement.  Doesn't seem have a Warren type intellect. 

5. Elizabeth Warren: Woman.  member of the progressive wing of the party, and an olive branch to the Bernie supporters.  Obviously brilliant.  Cons: doesn't bring a home state.  

6. Mayor Pete:  Next generation of leadership.  Smart political intellect and debater (would do very well against Pence specifically).  Biden seems to really like him and compared him to his son Beau.  Cons: not a woman and doesn't bring Indiana to the table. 

7.  Stacey Abrams:  Next generation of leadership.  Woman + African American.  Possibly puts Georgia in play.  Useful bump for the two open Senate seats.  Former minority leader of Georgia House and possibly generates Obama-esque excitement. 

8.  Bill McRaven:  Emphasises Biden's core message of restoring dignity and unity to the country.  Distinguished admiral and outspoken Trump critic.  A native North Carolinian who was chancellor of U of Texas and helps campaigns in both states.  Commanded the mission that took out Bin Laden.  Cons: not a woman or African-American.  Not a politician/untested campaigner.  Health issues led him to retire as U Texas Chancellor. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

9. Jace. Pros and cons: brings some snark and outrage to the campaign, esp. in a debate with Pence. Speaks for the minority votes of ponies around the country. Cons: voter supression of ponies has been very effective. There are exactly zero pony senators (or voters). Pros. Brings the US within one heart attack close to the authotarian leadership it deserves (in contrast to the one it has now).

Anyway, one a more serious note. Like I said, Biden has a lot more options for VP pick, depending on where they think the votes for a succesful GE are. The advantage of being bland vanilla, it works with a lot of ice creams flavours. If he thinks, the black votes in the south are the way to go, Abrams will be high on the list. If he thinks it will be the midwest, Klobuchar might be an option. If he thinks the college educated folks in the suburbs are the way to go (which is where I think the votes are), he will look for somebody with a cross party appeal. Maybe Buttigieg (otherwise I see very little voter groups  where he might help).

I don't think chasing after the rustbelt is a winning strategy in a GE.