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Connor Grey

Why is Jon called Jon?

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Posted (edited)
On 3/11/2020 at 9:21 PM, Connor Grey said:

It’s generally thought that Ned gave Jon Snow his first name to hide his identity, most likely naming Jon after his mentor Lord Jon Arryn, Lord of the Vale. The name ‘Jon’ might also give hint of his real name ‘Aegon’, if you shorten it to ‘Gon’. 

But, could it hint at something else?

In Fire and Blood, we hear that Laenor Velaryon (married to Rhaenyra Targaryen) had a close friend called Joffrey, who was probably his lover. Rhaenyra and Laenor later go on to name one of their sons Joffrey.

If Jon’s father is Rhaegar Targaryen, we notice in the books that a good friend of his is... Jon Connington. In Connington’s POV chapter, his admiration for Rhaegar could be interpreted as romantic love. We don’t know this for sure, or if it was reciprocated. 

But does this leave room for us to wonder if Jon was named after Jon Connington, his father’s lover?

Or perhaps it’s more subtle. Maybe Jon was given his name as cover by Ned, after Jon Arryn, with Jon’s real name being Aegon. But maybe the fact that Rhaegar’s close friend has the same name, is George R.R. Martin giving us a clue that Rhaegar and Jon were lovers, and he reinforces that with the story of Laenor and Joffrey as lovers in ‘Fire and Blood’, with Laenor’s son named Joffrey.

Any thoughts?

 

George's names all have meaning.  The traditional meaning of the name comes from the hebrew, meaning "God is gracious", or "gift of Jehovah."  I am sure George's thematic reason for choosing the name is a riff on this meaning.  Further, there is an SSM that the name Jon was chosen by Ned, meaning that it may not be the name Lyanna gave him. Regardless of the potential other name, he is and always will be Jon Snow, so the definition I gave before will dominate his character.  

EDIT: It's much more likely that Ned named him after Jon Arryn than Rhaegar wanting him named after one of his admirers.

Edited by The Green Bard
adding discussion of JonCon / Jon Arryn

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I always thought that Ned got stuck with the name Jon when he inherited the child, and had to name his other children to fit the theme.

Jon could well have been after Jon Connington, but that would be suspicious so Ned would say it was after Jon Arryn. To cover that suspicious non northern name up, Robb was named after Robert. Bran after Ned's brother, Rickon after his father.

All these fit the theme of influential people in Ned's life. His daughters didn't follow this theme however, likely because Ned didn't see the need.

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Why is Jon called Jon?

Spoiler

That's where he was born. :D

Just kidding.  Because of Jon Arryn.  Ned loved the old guy.  The guy started a rebellion to save him.  Jon Snow was named for Jon Arryn.  JA committed treason to save Ned.  JS would later commit treason in the attempt to save Arya.  

I do not believe R + L = J is true. Even if true,  Rhaegar is not likely to name his bastard son after Jon Connington.  He would pick the noblest people around him.  Arthur or Barristan, for example.  

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4 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I always thought that Ned got stuck with the name Jon when he inherited the child, and had to name his other children to fit the theme.

Jon could well have been after Jon Connington, but that would be suspicious so Ned would say it was after Jon Arryn. To cover that suspicious non northern name up, Robb was named after Robert. Bran after Ned's brother, Rickon after his father.

All these fit the theme of influential people in Ned's life. His daughters didn't follow this theme however, likely because Ned didn't see the need.

But there’s quite a few northerners called Jon, including a king Jon Stark. 

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5 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I always thought that Ned got stuck with the name Jon when he inherited the child, and had to name his other children to fit the theme.

Jon could well have been after Jon Connington, but that would be suspicious so Ned would say it was after Jon Arryn. To cover that suspicious non northern name up, Robb was named after Robert. Bran after Ned's brother, Rickon after his father.

All these fit the theme of influential people in Ned's life. His daughters didn't follow this theme however, likely because Ned didn't see the need.

 

55 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But there’s quite a few northerners called Jon, including a king Jon Stark. 

There are also a few Jon Umbers- Great Jon and Small Jon.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Jon_Umber

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Yes, George named two characters Aegon in The Princess and the Queen, so if went down this road, there is precedent for it. But I doubt that's Jon's Targaryen name. 

I'm more inclined toward "Aemon" and one of the variants for the name is "hidden one" which fits Jon Snow and the two other Aemons (Maester Aemon and Aemon Steelsong) perfectly.

Regardless, I don't see Jon changing his name because he finds out he's a Targaryen. He's been called Jon for seventeen years. I can see him taking the Targaryen last name and keeping his first name as Jon, which would still reflect his northern identity.

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Not the main topic of this thread, but it got me wondering who named Robb. Is that ever stated? Robb was born while Ned was away at war, so he wouldn't have been there to name him when he got back. So either Catelyn named him, she left him nameless until reuniting with Ned, or they went over names after their wedding and before Ned left (which would have been before any pregnancy was known).

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Jon was named after Jon Arryn because Lyanna died in childbirth without naming him squat so Ned decided to name her child Jon in honor of Jon Arryn, his mentor.

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John, King of England... born John "Lackland"... signed the Magna Carta.

While he is often portrayed as a villain, such as in Robin Hood, in the words of Winston Churchill, "[w]hen the long tally is added, it will be seen that the British nation and the English-speaking world owe far more to the vices of John than to the labors of virtuous sovereigns".

Many good men have been bad kings, Maester Aemon used to say, and some bad men have been good kings.

His father was the first Plantagenet, from which the two cadet branches, Lancaster and York descend.

Edited by Mourning Star

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On 3/11/2020 at 6:21 PM, Connor Grey said:

It’s generally thought that Ned gave Jon Snow his first name to hide his identity, most likely naming Jon after his mentor Lord Jon Arryn, Lord of the Vale. The name ‘Jon’ might also give hint of his real name ‘Aegon’, if you shorten it to ‘Gon’. 

But, could it hint at something else?

In Fire and Blood, we hear that Laenor Velaryon (married to Rhaenyra Targaryen) had a close friend called Joffrey, who was probably his lover. Rhaenyra and Laenor later go on to name one of their sons Joffrey.

If Jon’s father is Rhaegar Targaryen, we notice in the books that a good friend of his is... Jon Connington. In Connington’s POV chapter, his admiration for Rhaegar could be interpreted as romantic love. We don’t know this for sure, or if it was reciprocated. 

But does this leave room for us to wonder if Jon was named after Jon Connington, his father’s lover?

Or perhaps it’s more subtle. Maybe Jon was given his name as cover by Ned, after Jon Arryn, with Jon’s real name being Aegon. But maybe the fact that Rhaegar’s close friend has the same name, is George R.R. Martin giving us a clue that Rhaegar and Jon were lovers, and he reinforces that with the story of Laenor and Joffrey as lovers in ‘Fire and Blood’, with Laenor’s son named Joffrey.

Any thoughts?

 

I sure hope his real name isn't Aegon.   That would make ZERO sense to have 2 children with the same name.  Reminds of that psycho lady who named her son Rosemary.  

Laenor probably threw a hissy fit over naming a boy after his close friend.  Said close friend was probably sickened by the entire arrangement.   This would fall under the stupid things we do for love column heading.  Still not as bad as Jon's name being Aegon though.  

As much as Connington thinks about Rhaegar I would think we would have caught at least a glimpse of a fond memory of ... a bath together, a kiss, an embrace--something from Connington's POV.  We get a lot of goo and regret and awe, but no sexy time at all between them.  

I think it's likely Jon is simply called Jon because Ned thought Jon Arryn was a stud and a wonderful person to name your own child after.   Ned was pretty clever in that name choosing, I think.   Why would anyone think Jon was anyone other than Ned's son with a name of such obvious affection, tribute and destiny?

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Nothing to suggest Rhaegar reciprocated Jon's feelings, and this isn't how it would be hinted.

That said I don't think Jon Connington having the same name as the primary protagonist is without reason. Jon Snow's real name given by his mother/father will certainly be Aegon. So there is the pretender (f)Aegon backed by Jon Connington, both using Jon Snow's names.

Perhaps (f)Aegon doesn't make it because of the baggage Jon Connington still carries with him. And the lesson is Jon Snow can't make it as Aegon Targaryen either because he was Jon, a bastard and Night's Watch member. The baggage he carries with him will mean he can't take his place as Aegon Targaryen on the throne, and he'd be wise to see that and not reach for it or he'll meet a similar fate to (f)Aegon.

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1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

 Jon Snow's real name given by his mother/father will certainly be Aegon.

How do you get that?
When Rhaegar left Lyanna, he still had a living son called Aegon.

The only way Jon could have been named Aegon is if Lyanna did it after learning of the death of both Rhaegar and Aegon. And thats still stupid. Why would she name her son after his murdered older brother? That just messes up everything for everybody, besides screwing with his personal identity. There are any number of other names to choose, both Targaryen and not Targaryen. If she even chose one. Its more likely she and Rhaegar together had planned a different one, to go with Aegon and Rhaenys.

Seems that Aegon is about the only possible name we can be sure Jon wasn't named. No?

Edited by corbon

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8 hours ago, corbon said:

How do you get that?

It is why the Rhaegar naming Aegon scene exists, those are the circumstances into which Jon is born, his is the song of ice and fire, they believe they're bringing the prince that was promised into the world, and what better name for a king.

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1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

It is why the Rhaegar naming Aegon scene exists, those are the circumstances into which Jon is born, his is the song of ice and fire, they believe they're bringing the prince that was promised into the world, and what better name for a king.

no thats elia and her son not jon and lyanna

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8 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

It is why the Rhaegar naming Aegon scene exists, those are the circumstances into which Jon is born, his is the song of ice and fire, they believe they're bringing the prince that was promised into the world, and what better name for a king.

GRRM has confirmed that that is Rhaegar and Elia. Therefore the child is Aegon, Rhaegar's first son. 

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/15608

So the point remains. Given that Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon, Aegon is in fact about the only name we can be sure Jon wasn't named.

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1 hour ago, corbon said:

GRRM has confirmed that that is Rhaegar and Elia. Therefore the child is Aegon, Rhaegar's first son. 

https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/15608

So the point remains. Given that Rhaegar already had a son named Aegon, Aegon is in fact about the only name we can be sure Jon wasn't named.

Obviously it is Rhaegar's and Elia's first son, and the point remains the purpose of the scene will prove to be an explanation of the circumstances of Jon's birth. 

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3 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Obviously it is Rhaegar's and Elia's first son, and the point remains the purpose of the scene will prove to be an explanation of the circumstances of Jon's birth. 

The circumstances of Jon's birth is that Rhaegar wanted a third daughter out of Lyanna because Elia couldn't have another child or she'd die. She failed obviously, giving birth to a son instead a daughter, which isn't something Rhaegar would've wanted.

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