King17 Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 So out of all the hands the realm has had which one was the best? And why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Tywin Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steller Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Septon Barth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Viserys Targaryen II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Between Barth and Viserys II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 For me it would be Baelor Targaryen. His actions in the Ashford tourney made it clear that he was a really just and brave man. 2 hours ago, Putin said: Tywin Lannister He was certainly competent, and his most awful actions (the massacre of Castamere, the sack of KL and the murder of Elia and her kids) happened when he was no longer a Hand. However, I'd say he is far from the ideal hand. It seems that he was not content with keeping a low profile, and let Aerys take the credit. He allowed his captain of the guards to boast that he was more powerful than the king. He tried to manipulate him to marry her daughter to the heir of the crown. And probably he could have made more to ensure the king's safe release during the Defiance. Admitedly Aerys was mad as nuts and Tywin is an able administrator, but his extreme methods and his blind spots (mainly his pride and his kids) are huge downsides. 1 hour ago, James Steller said: Septon Barth. Barth appears to be a great Hand with plenty of accomplishments. My only issue with him is that he may be partly responsible for Jaehaerys' most misogynistic tendencies. Also, I think that he should have put some work in leaving a written succession law to avoid the chaotic later years of rule and the Dance of Dragons. IMO, choosing Baelon over Rhaenys was not the greatest decision, but once that was decided, it should have been accompanied with a clear and defined rule of succession. 1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: Viserys Targaryen II I'm not sure about him. He certainly wasn't able to control the excesses of his nephews, and there are theories that suggest that he was involved in their deaths. It's also debatable whether he usurped the throne from Daena. I'm very interested in reading more about him in FIB 2, but seeing how his wife left him, he forced the marriage of Aegon and Naerys, and was in at least some ways responsible of how Aegon the Unworthy turned up, I have my doubts about how good a hand he really was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 3 hours ago, The hairy bear said: Barth appears to be a great Hand with plenty of accomplishments. My only issue with him is that he may be partly responsible for Jaehaerys' most misogynistic tendencies. Also, I think that he should have put some work in leaving a written succession law to avoid the chaotic later years of rule and the Dance of Dragons. IMO, choosing Baelon over Rhaenys was not the greatest decision, but once that was decided, it should have been accompanied with a clear and defined rule of succession. I don't know how much can be blamed on him. Jaeharys was how he was and Baelon was a great choice, morality aside. The Dance can't be pinned on him, he himself died before Baelon and the Kings. 3 hours ago, The hairy bear said: I'm not sure about him. He certainly wasn't able to control the excesses of his nephews, and there are theories that suggest that he was involved in their deaths. It's also debatable whether he usurped the throne from Daena. I'm very interested in reading more about him in FIB 2, but seeing how his wife left him, he forced the marriage of Aegon and Naerys, and was in at least some ways responsible of how Aegon the Unworthy turned up, I have my doubts about how good a hand he really was He was able to keep the Realm together even with his nephews decided to tear the Realm apart. When the King has almost all power, what you can do is often limited to what the King let you to do. He ruled with his brother and keep things quiet while Daeron and Baelor did their things and whereas I do think he def usurped his nieces, that has nothing to do with his tenure as Hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 hours ago, frenin said: He was able to keep the Realm together even with his nephews decided to tear the Realm apart. When the King has almost all power, what you can do is often limited to what the King let you to do. He ruled with his brother and keep things quiet while Daeron and Baelor did their things and whereas I do think he def usurped his nieces, that has nothing to do with his tenure as Hand. Are you kidding? It was clearly Aegon IV who offed his cousin, and then his father. I'm looking forward to that reveal in "Fire & Blood Part II". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 24 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: Are you kidding? It was clearly Aegon IV who offed his cousin, and then his father. I'm looking forward to that reveal in "Fire & Blood Part II". I did not say, he killed his nephew, I said he usurped his nieces. And Baelor didn't need help to die, extreme fasting already does the job for anyone interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, frenin said: I did not say, he killed his nephew, I said he usurped his nieces. And Baelor didn't need help to die, extreme fasting already does the job for anyone interested. My mistake. And if we're going to accuse Viserys of snubbing women, we might as well say that for most of the Targaryen kings. They all got where they were because women didn't have a fair shake at the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said: My mistake. And if we're going to accuse Viserys of snubbing women, we might as well say that for most of the Targaryen kings. They all got where they were because women didn't have a fair shake at the throne. Well, the only one who actually made a very good use of that precedent were Viserys and Jaeharys. At least Viserys 1 was elected via Great Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floki of the Ironborn Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Just now, frenin said: Well, the only one who actually made a very good use of that precedent were Viserys and Jaeharys. At least Viserys 1 was elected via Great Council. You can't just include Viserys and Jaeharys, you have to include all their descendants who sat on the Iron Throne. They all benefited from their ancestor benefitting from sexism. If one of them didn't become king, none of the later ones would become king either, they might not even have been born, who knows what else changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Ice-Eyes Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 3/12/2020 at 4:52 AM, King17 said: So out of all the hands the realm has had which one was the best? And why? Septon Barth or Tywin Lannister. Pretty simple as no other Hand of The King comes close - and don't say Bloodraven because he wasn't even close to them in terms of ability at keeping peace and prosperity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Brandon Ice-Eyes said: Septon Barth or Tywin Lannister. Pretty simple as no other Hand of The King comes close - and don't say Bloodraven because he wasn't even close to them in terms of ability at keeping peace and prosperity. Viserys II does come pretty close and his task was way harder. The fact that the Realm didn't fall apart during the tenure of father and sons can be attributed in great part to him. @Floki of the Ironborn I know that but still, the ones directly affected by said decrees, were only two. Rogar crowned Jaeharys and Viserys was crowned by the Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helman Corbray Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Probably Balon Breakspear. Trapped Bittersteel and finished the battle, was an honored Knight that died defending an innocent man. Humble and liked to solve things with patience. Bloodraven in the other hand was a sorcerer and worst things. Away with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
867-5309 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 Brynden Rivers. He was a Targaryen loyalists. He had his loyalties straight and killed his rebel brother to secure the Targaryen reign. That makes him a hero to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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