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Could Sansa end up marrying Edric Storm?


Nagini's Neville

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I think that Edric Storm is being set up to be the new Lord of Storms End, which will be vacant with the (likely) deaths of Stannis and Shireen.  Sansa's story is much more likely to be based in Winterfell and/or Kings Landing.  so, I really don't see them getting together.  I will admit, though, that it makes a lot more sense than Arya/Gendry, which I think would be a horrible match, with nothing in common except a few months in the Riverlands.

As for Sansa, I think there is a god possibility she will be married by the end, but will have a lot of say who it is.  I think she is tired of being dangled as marriage bait.  I sometimes think that, now that he is at odds with the Lannisters, Tyrion isn't that bad a match, assuming he resumes being a decent human being again.  They could be a powerful political partnership.

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6 minutes ago, Nevets said:

As for Sansa, I think there is a god possibility she will be married by the end, but will have a lot of say who it is.  I think she is tired of being dangled as marriage bait.  I sometimes think that, now that he is at odds with the Lannisters, Tyrion isn't that bad a match, assuming he resumes being a decent human being again.  They could be a powerful political partnership.

Her marriage to Tyrion and overall time in KL was pretty traumatic for Sansa. And IMO Tyrion is a horrible person rn and I doubt, he'll make a 180 that quickly.

He doesn't treat women, he wants to sleep with, well. He just has a lot of problems in that area and I just can't see how, that could be so easily resolved, especially with the path he is on right now.

And I also think that GRRM wouldn't have wasted the opportunity during their marriage to give us some hints or foreshadowing in that direction. Instead I feel like he did the opposite. With Sansa asking Tyrion what would happen, if she never wanted to sleep with him and thinking, that pity was the death of desire. Not his looks were, but her pity for him. To me all of that felt very final. There was zero connection made.

 

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1 hour ago, Nevets said:

 

As for Sansa, I think there is a god possibility she will be married by the end, but will have a lot of say who it is.  I think she is tired of being dangled as marriage bait.  I sometimes think that, now that he is at odds with the Lannisters, Tyrion isn't that bad a match, assuming he resumes being a decent human being again.  They could be a powerful political partnership.

I don’t know, any pairing where the couple is more than 10 years apart tends to go poorly. Daenerys and Drogo only worked due to Stockholm, I can’t imagine that Walder Frey treats his wife well. But the ultimate example would be Jon Arryn and Lysa Tully. Part of the reason why their marriage wound up on the rocks is because he was four times her age; because of that they couldn’t connect on an emotional level, and she wound up murdering him. 

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On 3/13/2020 at 1:22 AM, Nagini's Neville said:

First of all I was wondering, if Robert might have named his son Edric to- in a way- honor his friend Eddard? Even though maybe giving a bastard son a similar name would not be considered an honor. But maybe he did it subconsciously.

I was just thinking about how Edric Dayne also gets called "Ned", so Edric Storm would also be a Ned. If we lose Rickon (or maybe he is just too feral for the job now ^_^) and Sansa will become the Lady of WF, if she marries Edric and he doesn't get legitimized, he would be the next "Ned Stark". And of course Robert's We'll join houses, I have a son, you have a daughter prediction will come true.

Any thoughts? 

 

Yes, Arya and Gendry. 

 

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Can’t see that happening. I agree with the other posters that Sansa will be married. I tend to take her “No one will ever marry me for love” (Sansa VI, ASOS) to be foreshadow. She will marry for love, and unlike her betrothal to Harry and marriage to Tyrion, she will marry a man of her own choice. I just don’t think it will be Edric Storm. 

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11 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

@Nevets Tyrion is one of Sansa's abusers. He traumatized her. That makes him not fit to be her suitor. 

All of Sansa's fave fandom pairings (Sandor, Tyrion, LF) are a no go for me because of that. Those guys have done any or all of the following...

1) mentally, emotionally, sexually or physically abused her

2) used her for their personal gain

3) demeaned her person, her intelligence, her interests

4) projected their issues/fantasies onto her

Which is why for me her potential marriage partner of her own choosing, should be someone else. Someone who hasn't done the above to any woman but especially her personally. And I just don't see there being enough time due to so much actual story plots having to be resolved in 2 books.

I guess I'm just one of the few people who doesn't need Sansa's story to end in marriage when the books are over. It would be enough for me to see Sansa heal from the horrors she has been subjected to and to end up in a position (not being Queen or Lady or anything like that) where it's made clear that she has the power to choose whom to marry.

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14 minutes ago, Mystical said:

All of Sansa's fave fandom pairings (Sandor, Tyrion, LF) are a no go for me because of that. Those guys have done any or all of the following...

1) mentally, emotionally, sexually or physically abused her

2) used her for their personal gain

3) demeaned her person, her intelligence, her interests

4) projected their issues/fantasies onto her

Which is why for me her potential marriage partner of her own choosing, should be someone else. Someone who hasn't done the above to any woman but especially her personally. And I just don't see there being enough time due to so much actual story plots having to be resolved in 2 books.

I guess I'm just one of the few people who doesn't need Sansa's story to end in marriage when the books are over. It would be enough for me to see Sansa heal from the horrors she has been subjected to and to end up in a position (not being Queen or Lady or anything like that) where it's made clear that she has the power to choose whom to marry.

This is the best answer.

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56 minutes ago, Mystical said:

All of Sansa's fave fandom pairings (Sandor, Tyrion, LF) are a no go for me because of that. Those guys have done any or all of the following...

1) mentally, emotionally, sexually or physically abused her

2) used her for their personal gain

3) demeaned her person, her intelligence, her interests

4) projected their issues/fantasies onto her

Which is why for me her potential marriage partner of her own choosing, should be someone else. Someone who hasn't done the above to any woman but especially her personally. And I just don't see there being enough time due to so much actual story plots having to be resolved in 2 books.

I guess I'm just one of the few people who doesn't need Sansa's story to end in marriage when the books are over. It would be enough for me to see Sansa heal from the horrors she has been subjected to and to end up in a position (not being Queen or Lady or anything like that) where it's made clear that she has the power to choose whom to marry.

Who the hell can ship Sansa and Petyr??

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31 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

@frenin Oh they exist. Particularly on Tumblr. I had the displeasure on seeing their content when I went through the Sansa Stark tag. I advice you not to go there. You will need to cleanse your eyes with holy water. 

My god, the worst thing is that I'm from Spain and we're kinfa quarantine right now... So the boredom can actually overcome  any good senses soon enough.:rofl:  I already knew about the disgusting  Tyrion and Sansan ships, even the gross Jonsa... But Sansa and LF... People have real issues.

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3 hours ago, Mystical said:

All of Sansa's fave fandom pairings (Sandor, Tyrion, LF) are a no go for me because of that. Those guys have done any or all of the following...

1) mentally, emotionally, sexually or physically abused her

2) used her for their personal gain

3) demeaned her person, her intelligence, her interests

4) projected their issues/fantasies onto her

Which is why for me her potential marriage partner of her own choosing, should be someone else. Someone who hasn't done the above to any woman but especially her personally. And I just don't see there being enough time due to so much actual story plots having to be resolved in 2 books.

I guess I'm just one of the few people who doesn't need Sansa's story to end in marriage when the books are over. It would be enough for me to see Sansa heal from the horrors she has been subjected to and to end up in a position (not being Queen or Lady or anything like that) where it's made clear that she has the power to choose whom to marry.

Well I quite like Sandor and Sansa ending the books together, but I’m aware it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Sansa choosing to marry him despite his less than stellar reputation (even as far North, they heard about Saltpans) and having no lands or gold to offer her would mean that if she did chose him, it’d be for love and not political gain and whatnot. I personally would be disappointed if they didn’t end up together because it’d feel like a cop-out since there’s enough material there to make that the endgame.

Regarding your last point: Sansa will most likely be in a position of power at the end of the series. But that doesn’t mean any marriage will she has will be out of love or choice. It could just be out of duty, to help her house. However, she could grow to love him like her mother did her father. 

 

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3 hours ago, frenin said:

Who the hell can ship Sansa and Petyr??

People who you shouldn't go near without an Exorcist. Because they are clearly possessed by something. Heck they even exist or used to on this board.

1 hour ago, violentdelights said:

Well I quite like Sandor and Sansa ending the books together, but I’m aware it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. Sansa choosing to marry him despite his less than stellar reputation (even as far North, they heard about Saltpans) and having no lands or gold to offer her would mean that if she did chose him, it’d be for love and not political gain and whatnot. I personally would be disappointed if they didn’t end up together because it’d feel like a cop-out since there’s enough material there to make that the endgame.

It has nothing to do with his reputation or lack of means for me. But he was one of the people responsible for her low self-esteem and hindering her development by calling her stupid and demeaning all of her interests (dude sowing is a damn useful skill Sandor). Several times he man-handled her to the point of her feeling uncomfortable or even pain. And lets not forget the whole throwing her on the bed and knife to her throat incident. If that's not an obvious set up to a rape (and he had commented on her developing body) then I don't know what is. Sure he didn't go through with it but his intend certainly wasn't to get a song from her. Because really...the best position for someone to sing is laying flat on on a bed with a knife to the throat? I think not.

And one thing that really puts me off, and he has that in common with Tyrion, is him projecting his issues on a goddamn 12 year old. Vomitting his trauma on her as if it has anything to do with her and forcing her to deal with it in order to deal with him, is disgusting. You got issues? Go tell it to a whore, the shrinks of the time back then. At least they have to listen to your drama if they want to get paid and they do get something out of it.

1 hour ago, violentdelights said:

But that doesn’t mean any marriage will she has will be out of love or choice. It could just be out of duty, to help her house. However, she could grow to love him like her mother did her father.

Who says duty to her house will even still be a thing at the end of the books? If GRRM doesn't plan to have all this death and destruction break down at least some of the systems in Westeros, then what's the point? If the Stark children are destined to rebuild/resettle the North (after all the North lost in the wars so far, the Others will finish off what's left), they can rebuild it however they want.

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Sandor Clegane also has a lot of common with Cersei too. At least to what affect they have on Sansa and her arc. I mean if you think about it they literally do the same thing to Sansa:

1. Both of them see themselves in Sansa and therefore feel the need to share their unsolicited "wisdom" with her. 

2. Both of them have a creepy desire to break down her self-esteem and spirit. 

3. Both of them make Sansa feel somewhat "save". 

4. Both of them are foils of Sansa and it's in contracts to them we see what a good person and a hero Sansa is. Example: "He is no true knight" & "If am a queen I would make them love me." 

5. Both of them threaten to kill Sansa during the Black Water battle. 

One of them is unanimously seen to be Sansa's abuser and yet the other is who Sansa is shipped with the most. Interesting treatment by the fandom don't you think? 

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It has nothing to do with his reputation or lack of means for me.

I'm not saying that is why it doesn't work for you. I'm saying that his reputation is something they'll have to overcome considering that in Davos I (or II) we hear about the Hound's raid on Saltpans. He had a bad reputation prior to Saltpans, now he's accused of numerous crimes that even the North has heard of (though, White Harbour is trading port, so no surprise). So if they do get together, that is another obstacle they face.

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But he was one of the people responsible for her low self-esteem and hindering her development by calling her stupid and demeaning all of her interests (dude sowing is a damn useful skill Sandor). 

Er, maybe I've skipped over it but how is he responsible for her low self-esteem? Her self-esteem (as far as we know) is not lowered with his constant comments about her supposed stupidity. I'd say Cersei and Joffrey do a fine job at that: "Maybe I truly am as stupid as Cersei Lannister says." (Sansa I ASOS), "I am soft and weak and stupid, just as Joffrey says" (Sansa VII ACOK), "Joffrey and his mother say I'm stupid." (Sansa IV, ACOK), "You truly are a stupid girl, aren't you? My mother says so." "She does?" After all that had happened, his words should have lost their power to hurt her, yet somehow they had not. The queen had always been so kind to her" (Sansa VI, AGOT).

Sansa expects Sandor to be harsh and cruel ("He is a dog, just as he says. A half-wild, mean-tempered dog that bites any hand that tries to pet him" and "You're awful") even when she wants to believe otherwise (Sansa IV, ACOK). She's quite forward with him too: "Aren’t you afraid? The gods might send you down to some terrible hell for all the evil you’ve done." (Sansa IV, ACOK).

I'll tag @Elegant Woes for this part since it covers her comment above.

I must disagree with your argument that Sandor hindered her development. Sandor's advice (horribly delivered, I'll concede) did help her 'see the world'. She is not as easily fooled. Look at how she reflects back to his 'lessons': "The memory of her own wedding night with Tyrion was much with her. In the dark, I am the Knight of Flowers, he had said. I could be good to you. But that was only another Lannister lie. A dog can smell a lie, you know, the Hound had told her once. She could almost hear the rough rasp of his voice. Look around you, and take a good whiff. They're all liars here, and every one better than you" (Sansa VI, ASOS)

And here his reflections on knighthood find there way to her: "Only Ser Dontos had tried to help, and he was no longer a knight, no more than the Imp was, nor the Hound … the Hound hated knights … I hate them too, Sansa thought. They are no true knights, not one of them" (Sansa III, ACOK). Now the important thing to notice is that Sansa, in this instance, doesn't subscribe to Sandor's brand of nihilism. Knights can be good (no true knight) but the ones of the KG are not.

And then you have his advice here: "He wants you to smile and smell sweet and be his lady love," the Hound rasped. "He wants to hear you recite all your pretty little words the way the septa taught you. He wants you to love him … and fear him." (Sansa VI, AGOT). Sandor mocks her courtesies throughout, yet his advice to her on how survive KL and Joffrey, is to be courteous (like a little bird). As you can see here, his advice does help her: "She wanted to rage, to hurt him as he’d hurt her, to warn him that when she was queen she would have him exiled if he ever dared strike her again …but she remembered what the Hound had told her, so all she said was, “I shall do whatever His Grace commands.” 

Also, I went back to look at some excerpts and I haven't seen Sandor mock her interests like sewing? 

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Several times he man-handled her to the point of her feeling uncomfortable or even pain. And lets not forget the whole throwing her on the bed and knife to her throat incident. If that's not an obvious set up to a rape (and he had commented on her developing body) then I don't know what is. Sure he didn't go through with it but his intend certainly wasn't to get a song from her. Because really...the best position for someone to sing is laying flat on on a bed with a knife to the throat? I think not.

Again, I understand their dynamic is not for everyone -- I'm certainly not going to convince you to view it the way I do if you're uncomfortable with it. However, I've always been interested in relationships -- platonic or otherwise -- that involve person A changing person B and vice-versa. In ACOK and ASOS (though they are seperated), Sandor and Sansa challenge each other's worldview. The clash between idealism and nihilism is one I'm interested in. 

I must also disagree with your comment about his intent to rape. I think this post covers it really well. 

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And one thing that really puts me off, and he has that in common with Tyrion, is him projecting his issues on a goddamn 12 year old. Vomitting his trauma on her as if it has anything to do with her and forcing her to deal with it in order to deal with him, is disgusting. You got issues? Go tell it to a whore, the shrinks of the time back then. At least they have to listen to your drama if they want to get paid and they do get something out of it.

He is not projecting his issues. You have to realise that this is a 27 year old man with childhood trauma and a fearsome identity built on that trauma and his inability to deal with it. There's a reason why he told Sansa:

“You rode gallantly today, Ser Sandor,” she made herself say.
Sandor Clegane snarled at her. “Spare me your empty little compliments, girl … and your ser’s. I am no knight. I spit on them and their vows. My brother is a knight. Did you see him ride today?”
“Yes,” Sansa whispered, trembling. “He was …”
“Gallant?” the Hound finished.
He was mocking her, she realized. “No one could withstand him,” she managed at last, proud of herself. It was no lie.
Sandor Clegane stopped suddenly in the middle of a dark and empty field [...]
“No one could withstand him,” the Hound rasped. “That’s truth enough. No one could ever withstand Gregor. 

He was clearly recalling Gregor's abuse and the fact that he was one of the "no one" that could "withstand Gregor". I'm not sure if you've been around people with PTSD, but 'word vomit' is a pretty accurate description. He does not wish to inform her (he goes on to threaten to kill her afterwards), it just spills out. PTSD forces an individual to tell and relive the same story over and over and over again in a maddening sequence. GRRM is an expert in depicting it. For example, recall Tyrion's never-ending "Where do whores go" which not only stems from the gang-rape of his wife at his father's behest, but his own participation. Sansa, up to this point, has expressed naive romanticism about a thoroughly evil world that rewards Gregor; she thinks Gregor is an anomaly and Sandor attempts to make her realise that she's the anomaly and Gregor's the standard. In doing so, Joffrey and those Knights are exposed too. However, I should state that Sandor's nihilistic views are not to be applauded which is why her next line: "He was no true knight" (Sansa II, AGOT) is countering that view by suggesting Gregor should be an anomaly for failing to uphold the institution of knighthood.

More to the point, after he finishes explaining what had happened to him, "Sansa could hear his ragged breathing. She was sad for him..." (Sansa II, AGOT). If the "word vomit" was enough indication to you that he was clearly going through an episode, his ragged (meaning disorderly and confused) breathing suggests someone on the cusp of a panic attack.

One of the reasons why I am looking forward to seeing Sandor is because he does see a "shrink" (the closest Westeros will come to a therapist is the Elder Brother). I am personally really excited to see Sandor Clegane and not the Hound. A man who has dealt with his childhood trauma and is ready to right his wrongs (or at least I hope so). 

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Who says duty to her house will even still be a thing at the end of the books? If GRRM doesn't plan to have all this death and destruction break down at least some of the systems in Westeros, then what's the point? If the Stark children are destined to rebuild/resettle the North (after all the North lost in the wars so far, the Others will finish off what's left), they can rebuild it however they want.

I meant political marriage if it was not clear. 

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8 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

4. Both of them are foils of Sansa and it's in contracts to them we see what a good person and a hero Sansa is. Example: "He is no true knight" & "If am a queen I would make them love me." 

Well, I disagree with what you're saying but I think my above comment covered some of it. However, I want to let you know that the quote you selected does leave out an important bit: "...but he saved me all the same, she told the Mother. Save him if you can, and gentle the rage inside him" (Sansa V, ACOK). To Sansa, he is no true knight, yet he saved her as if he were. 

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19 hours ago, frenin said:

My god, the worst thing is that I'm from Spain and we're kinfa quarantine right now... So the boredom can actually overcome  any good senses soon enough.:rofl:  I already knew about the disgusting  Tyrion and Sansan ships, even the gross Jonsa... But Sansa and LF... People have real issues.

I think it's mainly because of the actor in the show. Some people are really into him. And with for example the Jeyne storyline gone he is not quite as evil as in the books.  And they established their relationship much more when Sansa was in KL than in the books. IMO the Tyrion Sansa shipping also comes mainly from the show, because in the show Tyrion is mainly a good guy, treats her much better and i felt like there was a connection between them, the actors had good chemistry. Good luck in quarantine!!

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@violentdelights That "He's no true knight" I mentioned was not from ACOK but from her second chapter in AGOT when Sandor is talking about his traumatic past. Sorry I should have made that clear. And there's a clear similarities between that scene and the one Sansa has with Cersei. With the way I see it the the majority of the interactions between Sansa and Sandor can be defined as a battle of ideologies. Idealism vs. Nihilism. Sandor's thesis is basically that nobody can remain good, honorable, and kind when the world is so unbearably shitty to you. Sansa proves him wrong. Especially in the That's no different from Cersei and Sansa and how love vs. fear is the underlying theme in their interactions. It's exactly the same. 

It's interesting you interpret their second interaction that way, because you are conveniently omitting an important of that scene. Sansa wanted to start a polite small talk and Sandor, the jerk he is, automatically goes to mock her kind offer and calls it "empty courtesies." Afterwards he decides to test her whether she can say something nice about his older brother, Gregor, and to which Sansa gives a brilliant answer to. The reason why Sandor is speechless for a moment isn't only because he was reminded of his trauma but also because he was initially impressed how Sansa managed to effortlessly turn the conversation around. That's why he responds: "Some septa trained you well. You're like one of those birds from the Summer Isles, aren't you? A pretty little talking bird, repeating all the pretty little words they taught you to recite."

This is where my issue with a possible "romance" between Sandor and Sansa begins. Sandor takes something what Sansa is proud of (and as she should, because having this mastery on words is a skill that many would envy both in her and our world) and mocks it mercilessly. This isn't the only time Sandor does this. He mocks Sansa's love for songs, her courtesies and her belief in the gods a lot and Sansa ends up internalizing that a lot. The worst case of it is when he throws Sansa's trauma into her face and she's clearly triggered by it:

Is that what he told you?" Clegane laughed again. "Your father lied. Killing is the sweetest thing there is." He drew his longsword. "Here's your truth. Your precious father found that out on Baelor's steps. Lord of Winterfell, Hand of the King, Warden of the North, the mighty Eddard Stark, of a line eight thousand years old . . . but Ilyn Payne's blade went through his neck all the same, didn't it? Do you remember the dance he did when his head came off his shoulders?"
 
Sansa hugged herself, suddenly cold. "Why are you always so hateful? I was thanking you . . ."
 
Let's call this for what it is: bullying. Sandor Clegane bullies Sansa and there's no other way to describe their interactions. A 28 year old man decides to harshly attack a twelve year old girl because she reminded him too much of who he was before that incident with Gregor. I find absolutely nothing romantic about that.
 
Personally I have no issue with anyone liking Sandor Clegane as a character or his interactions with Sansa. In fact I actually enjoy their scenes, but what I won't stand for is when someone romanticizes it. I am not the only one who has this view, GRRM said the same thing when he voiced his surprise on people thinking a romance between Sansa and Sandor is possible. 
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