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House Starks Inevitable Extinction...

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

I know, right? I’m sitting here, sipping my well-earned end-of-the-day drink, cool as a cucumber, reading all this nonsense, and thinking... “what?”.

I think @Brandon Ice-Eyes is taking my potty mouth as evidence that I’m angry or something like that? And again, I’m not at all surprised by this. It seems misinterpreting the written word is his specialty.

And up until now I’ve been waiting for an actual reply from him. But I think I’m ready to give up on that now, since all I got were insane accusations and mildly entertaining misinterpretations of what I’ve said. 

One thing I’m sure of, though, and that is, I’m done with giving this thread any more attention, since the OP has failed at every turn to provide any type of textual support for his claims. 

I’ve provided endless amounts of evidence which you have chosen deliberately to ignore?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Brandon Ice-Eyes said:

Ah, the classic ‘you’re a troll’ when all else has failed. I think this debate is over... B)

What, are you an 8 year old? You’ve been saying “I won” or “this debate is over” over and over again when all you’ve posted is your fanfic, feelings, opinion without a shred of textual evidence. And when posters on this thread almost unanimously agree that you have no textual evidence to back your fanfic, you start behaving like a petulant child. Most people on this Board will discuss and debate a theory if there is merit and if backed by the text and sound reasoning. You have provided none of these things and when people ask you to quote the text from which you are postulating/ framing your theory all you do is say your post is “overflowing with logic, reason, and a vast amount of evidence” and then accuse people of not accepting your theory because they love the Starks. And what’s this about “I win as usual” nonsense? Who have you won against? This is a discussion board for grown ups. 

Edited by teej6

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1 hour ago, Brandon Ice-Eyes said:

I’ve provided endless amounts of evidence which you have chosen deliberately to ignore?

No you haven’t. Probably this endless evidence is still in your head. No one but yourself seems to see it on this thread.

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2 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Agreed! I do like to give the trolls a chance though. I'm just soft-hearted like that I guess. :dunno:

 

That you are. :D

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On 3/13/2020 at 8:09 AM, Brandon Ice-Eyes said:

House Starks Inevitable Extinction...

Hello! So yeah, you're probably a bit confused as to why i'm presenting a theory on House Stark going extinct come the end of ADOS as they seem to be one of the few houses that will survive ASOIAF but i have different views. 

Now whilst I personally want House Stark to survive as i'm a stark fan, even if i can't stand this current generation of Starks, i still believe they will go extinct. You see, it's my opinion that the whole point of the ASOIAF is the death of magic and the death of Ice and Fire - ie: House Stark - Ice and House Targaryen - Fire. Now obviously you'll snap back and say: "BuT iCe Is ThE oThErS, nOt HoUsE sTaRk." Well that's where you're wrong! You see, i don't actually believe that the others will be beaten - more a settlement will be agreed. The wall will fall and they'll make it far south as the humanity will be too busy playing the game of thrones yet when they do turn to fight the greater foe, it will be too late. Not only that but i believe we will find out that The Others are in fact not the "Evil Big Bad Wolf" that we thought they were but a civilisation/species with very valid reasons to be upset at humanity - no doubt an ancient pact broken.

And that's where House Stark come in - they're the ones who broke the pact. I believe the pact will have something to do with the wall and an agreement they would share the wall - hence the 13th Lord Commander - but House Stark broke this pact as they did not trust The Others. Now as to why they waited 8000 years to attack, i don't know but i believe we will get more info on this in TWOW.

House Targaryen must go extinct because they represent Fire, the worst enemy of The Others and thus they must go extinct for The Others to be able to safely live out there days without the treachery of House Stark or The Dragons of Valyria.

Overall the entire books have been leading to this point. In ASOIAF, House Stark's new generation of Dead Ned and the rest of his gang are presented as honourable and 'Holier Than Thou' and are frankly annoying and pretentious and a stain on House Stark's rich and proud history yet this attitude has made this generation beloved of the readers who gladly ignore the blatant lies. Robb Stark broke his pact to House Frey and got what he had coming and Sansa betrayed her father to please a child pyscopath whilst Arya is too busy trying to become "no-one" and will most likely never be the same when she inevitably has to leave the House of Black and White. Bran and Rickon are the only ones who show some form of hope. Bran is in touch with the old powers which is form of hope and isn't stuck up his own backside because he's so "Honourable" like Ned and Robb were and Rickon seems to show signs of the ruthlessness required of a true Stark.

Ultimately they'll all die - and quite deservedly - as House Stark has endangered Humanity through there lies and this current generation of Starks will be too weak to defend The North.

This is where Jon comes in. I believe R + L = J is true simply because it makes too much sense and although it's obvious, it's most likely the correct theory. Jon is born of Ice and Fire and will be a necessary sacrifice to The Others as he will be a balance and thus can negotiate the peace yet it is my opinion that he will have to die as a sacrifice to make peace.

And there it is - The inevitable extinction of House Stark. Through there lies and weakness they have endangered Westeros and it is necessary for more justice to be served but not only must they die for justice but for peace - and House Targaryen must fall with them. They both represent Ice and Fire and there glorious falls will bring peace to a content that has been ravaged by war because of House Targaryen's madness and because a naive teenager couldn't accept his dad's death.

Leave your thoughts down below, all opinions are appreciated, Thanks :)

Everything you said about the weakness and character flaws of this generation of Starks is true.  You might even toss in Lyanna and Brandon to that mix.  I do not, however, believe the Targaryens and the Starks will go extinct. 

Fire is life.  Spring and Summer are the times when life flourishes.  Ice is nature's way of balancing.  Winter is when living things die.  It reduces and it culls.  Only the strongest survive to reproduce in the spring.  Both are needed to keep things in balance.

Yes, you may be right to connect the Starks to Ice and the Others.  The Night's King was a Stark.  Why of all the men on the wall was he chosen by the Night's Queen?  Something about him was special and stood out.  Maybe his very long face identified him as a Stark.  :)  Something about his line made him genetically compatible.  He possesses the same compatibility that Craster possibly has.  The Widlings must throw out a bunch of unwanted babies and yet that doesn't buy them tolerance from the Others.  Something about the NK's seed and Craster's are special.  There is a theory of why the Others are now on the move.  We know the Starks practiced human sacrifice.  We assume this secret ritual was handed down the family and was broken when the lord and his heir (Rickard and Brandon were executed) died unexpectedly.  The knowledge died with them.  The Others didn't get their payment.  Humans were not originally living in the west.  This blood payment bought them the right to stay.

The Targaryens have their own game in the east.  Fire and Ice do conflict, but it will not result in the extinction of both houses.  Some sort of agreement will come to pass.  "A Dream of Spring" will come from a Targaryen  perspective, Daenerys wishing and waiting to reclaim her family's kingdom of Westeros.  She will be waiting across the sea while the long winter is about to end in the west.  Bran will almost certainly be alive because he is the parallel to Daenerys.  The Starks most likely to die are Sansa and Jon.  The blood of the dragon will live on and so will the long face of the Starks.  Arya or Sansa will live long enough to have children. Perhaps Jon will be the father.  I am of the opinion that this survivor will be Arya because she is more of a savage Stark compared to Sansa.  I don't think both will live because it would be unfair to the Targaryens, which already lost Elia, Rhaenys, Aegon, Aerys, Viserys, Rhaegar, and Rhaella.  The Starks must also lose more people to keep things in balance.  Death and rebirth is at work.  The Targaryens cleared their weak members and we are left with the strongest character in the story, Daenerys.  The same will happen to the Starks.  I can see Bran living on as a plank of wood.  Arya's children will inherit the north.

 

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If Rickon Stark dies without children of his own and Jon Snow is never legitimized as a Stark but dies a Snow or a Targaryen and Benjen Stark isn't alive and well and will not eventually be freed from his vows then House Stark will die out in the male line.

Brandon the Broken is incapable of fathering children and is also not immortal. He will die and if Rickon and Benjen are dead by then House Stark will die with him.

I don't see Arya to ever marry or have (legitimate) children of her own, and if Sansa were to marry Harry the Heir her children by him would be Hardyngs or Arryns, nor Starks.

It is certainly imaginable that a Ruling Lady of Winterfell decides to give her children her own name and emasculate her husband to prevent him from giving them his own name (something not even Rhaenyra Targaryen did to Laenor Velaryon) but it strikes me as odd that George went out of his way to not include a female Ruling Lady in the direct line of descent of the two great houses where women played a great role in FaB:

1. Jeyne Arryn, the Maiden of the Vale, died an unmarried maiden, causing Jon Arryn and Harrold Hardyng to not be descended from her.

2. Borros Baratheon got a posthumous son, causing the bloodline of Orys Baratheon to remain male only down to Robert Baratheon and his brothers (as far as we know at that point, of course).

This indicates that the author feels uncomfortable to include a Ruling Lady among the direct ancestors of the major houses. This, in turn, makes it a tidbit less likely that we are going to see something like that happening in the future. Not impossible but not more likely.

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Would someone with Stark name made a claim to Winterfell if main branch of House Stark dies? Under normal conditions they would be too distant of main branch and without means to enforce their claims. But very soon things will become anything than usual and so it is possible that even unlikely things would became possible.

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LOL what happened in this thread...

 

To address the OP, no, I don't think the Starks will go extinct. I think there's a very good chance (if not a guarantee) that Sansa, Arya and Bran. Bran might not have children (because of his role as greenseer not because of his paralysis) but Sansa and Arya might. I actually have a sneaking suspicion that Rickon might even survive.

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33 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

LOL what happened in this thread...

 

To address the OP, no, I don't think the Starks will go extinct. I think there's a very good chance (if not a guarantee) that Sansa, Arya and Bran. Bran might not have children (because of his role as greenseer not because of his paralysis) but Sansa and Arya might. I actually have a sneaking suspicion that Rickon might even survive.

I want Rickon to survive so badly. And I want to get to know him :) IMO it would be so neat, if he was drastically different from Arya, Bran, Jon and Sansa. I know ppl tend to single Sansa out, but I actually think they all share similar traits and similar values. It would be so great, if Rickon would challenge their way of looking at things and was more reckless and ruthless, but in a good way. wild child energy :D Could maybe add a lot of entertainment value.

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1 hour ago, Loose Bolt said:

Would someone with Stark name made a claim to Winterfell if main branch of House Stark dies? Under normal conditions they would be too distant of main branch and without means to enforce their claims. But very soon things will become anything than usual and so it is possible that even unlikely things would became possible.

It is possible, but they would then just people calling themselves Starks, not born Starks. Harrold Hardyng may also one day call himself 'Arryn', but if he is an Arryn then Mace is a Hightower, Robert an Estermont (or better still - a Targaryen), Ned's children are all Tullys, and so forth.

32 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

To address the OP, no, I don't think the Starks will go extinct. I think there's a very good chance (if not a guarantee) that Sansa, Arya and Bran. Bran might not have children (because of his role as greenseer not because of his paralysis) but Sansa and Arya might. I actually have a sneaking suspicion that Rickon might even survive.

It has already been confirmed that Bran won't father children because of his paralysis. In fact, that's established very early on in the books, I think in AGoT or ACoK. And it is of course the adequate price for his magical gifts.

Arya is not going to marry, and she sure as hell won't get pregnant or give birth to children during the series even if she has sex at one point. And even if we get a glimpse of her adult life in the Epilogue of the series or something of that sort then the chances that she would ever end up in a marriage are still very slim. For a free woman marriage is a cage in this world, especially a noblewoman. Arya wouldn't have that.

Sansa certainly might marry and have children, but if her husband(s) are important men then they are likely going to want their son(s) to succeed to their seats, not Winterfell. If Harry inherits the Vale his child by Sansa should succeed to the Eyrie and the Vale, not Winterfell and the North. And the same would go for other high profile husbands Sansa might have.

If there was a spare heir left for Winterfell one could certainly one such lay claim to Winterfell, but that's also something a younger child of Jon Snow's could do.

I'd it very much like if Rickon Stark were to live, but we cannot expect that as a given. In fact, I'm inclined to believe that his sole purpose in the story might be to be the spare heir who gets the price in the end ... the other Starks got a heroic or tragic or doomed story and the toddler inherits the spoils in the end.

Both Sansa and Arya could end up at much more interesting places than Winterfell in the end.

Just now, Nagini's Neville said:

I want Rickon to survive so badly. And I want to get to know him :) IMO it would be so neat, if he was drastically different from Arya, Bran, Jon and Sansa. I know ppl tend to single Sansa out, but I actually think they all share similar traits and similar values. It would be so great, if Rickon would challenge their way of looking at things and was more reckless and ruthless, but in a good way. wild child energy :D Could maybe add a lot of entertainment value.

Rickon is going to be a feral child, more wolf than human being when we meet him again. He never had any discipline, he felt abandoned and alone and he has no skinchanger guide ... nor any reason to restrain himself.

We can expect him to be, perhaps, some sort of powerful symbol or rallying point for the Skagosi and more savage Northmen and wildlings, but I very much doubt he will ever develop any sort of agency or plot in his own right. He is a five-year-old boy, after all.

The best one can hope for is that once he reconnects with the remnants of his family he can - assuming he lives through the remainder of the series - overcome what he's been through and develop into a proper person after the series is over (which we'll never see aside from few glimpses, perhaps).

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4 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Both Sansa and Arya could end up at much more interesting places than Winterfell in the end.

For that reason, I think Arya may end up being the one with the husband and children and Sansa living out the rest of her life single.

I'm not saying that Arya can't be Arya Stark, the Single Spearwife Supreme and that Sansa won't have a husband, a home and a kitchen table full of healthy children. I'm just saying what might end up happening is that things get flipped. Arya might even be the one fulfill Robert Baratheon's dream of a Stark-Baratheon union, either by Edric Storm or Gendry.

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1 minute ago, BlackLightning said:

For that reason, I think Arya may end up being the one with the husband and children and Sansa living out the rest of her life single.

I'm not saying that Arya can't be Arya Stark, the Single Spearwife Supreme and that Sansa won't have a husband, a home and a kitchen table full of healthy children. I'm just saying what might end up happening is that things get flipped. Arya might even be the one fulfill Robert Baratheon's dream of a Stark-Baratheon union, either by Edric Storm or Gendry.

Then the whole talk about Arya not being the one who marries and becomes a proper little lady would be a red herring. I think this thing was supposed to express both a deep part of Arya's character as well as something about her future path.

I don't know what Arya is going to do but chances are very high she won't marry. Just as chances are pretty high that Sansa ends up in the role of a queen consort or something similar where she can exert power and influence as a proper lady rather than some kind of power woman who has to lead from the front.

I also don't see Brienne to ever marry. There are certain things a woman who doesn't want to become a house wife simply cannot do in this world. And Arya and Brienne's roles in life simply do not include that kind of thing. If they were to inherit a lordship (as Brienne easily could as her father's only child) they would follow in the footsteps of Jeyne Arryn. They would not marry.

Even for a woman as forceful and independent as Daenerys marriage is always dangerous.

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14 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Yeah, kind forgot his age :( 

One assumes George may have had some sort of plan for him back when he still thought the story would progress a lot faster and cover years during which the characters would grow up (or even back when the 5-year-gap was still a thing) but right now I can see actual plot for Rickon.

But then, I also see him dying a pointless death especially not now that the Skagos plot has been introduced. But that doesn't mean he will survive the Others.

Would like that, though. Could be great if he were to be betrothed to some Skagosi girl he bonded with on the island, and Osha were to become the regent of Winterfell rebuilding the North.

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On 3/14/2020 at 8:04 AM, Elegant Woes said:

Where do you get the idea that will happen? If anything Sansa is the most likely to continue the Stark bloodline. She's the associated with Bael the Bard tale, motherhood and wants to have children. 

Bran will be the next seer.  He will have a place and a role for the future.  No, I don't think he will be fathering any children but he will be alive at the end.  Somebody has to take Bloodraven's place on that tree.  Bran seems the only one with the ability.  Rickon has not done anything to deserve punishment.  Manderly is already plotting to place his butt in Winterfell.  He is the one who will have the highest probability of inheriting the family castle.  I cannot say the same for Jon, Sansa, and Arya.  Punishment is called for in Jon's case and Bowen Marsh delivered.  

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Posted (edited)

Lol, this thread has been an amusing read.

The reason I don't believe the Starks will go extinct is because in the absence of a real Stark, they'll just invent a new one. There are many characters who wear names that don't truly belong to them. (f)Arya. (f)Aegon. Ramsey wasn't born a Bolton. Joff is technically a Lannister by birth. His siblings too. The Hound isn't necessarily Sandor (and vice versa). Sansa isn't actually Alayne. Tyrion isn't actually Hugor. Stannis isn't Azor Ahai. The list goes on and on.

One observation can be made all too easily over the course of the series.  The Starks don't actually have that many enemies. They appear to have more loyal and friendly houses than they do enemies. Let's look at the North. The Starks could rely on houses Manderly, Lock, Flint, Norrey, Umber, Glover, Tallhart, Cerwyn, and Mormont. Their enemies include Houses Bolton, Dustin and Karstark. Though it's worth mentioning that Barbery               Dustin's dispute appeared to be aimed directly at Ned and not necessarily his entire house. She seems to of loved Brandon fiercely. Her brief encounters with Theon also suggests that she secretly desired to be a Stark.
 The Umbers, for all intents and purposes appear to be split. But considering that the green boys are placed on the side of Stannis, it seems that House Umber is actually giving Bolton men that are expecting to die during the winter anyway. It seems fairly certain that the North as a whole favours a Stark restoration. Oh, the other houses will all be clambering to get into the family. There is ambition there, too. It isn't necessarily blind devotion and pure love. It's just overwhelmingly obvious that most find serving a Stark in WF to be an agreeable fate. It's almost a pre-requisite for peace. In the North anyway. We should mention the Freys too as they do have a presence in the North now. But they are despised. Even Barbery Dustin has to concede that the North will remember. And the Freys do not know winter. Any more than Stannis' troops do. It's heavily implied that southerners are out of their depth north of the neck.

Then we have the fact that George loves his cripples (Bran) bastards (Jon) and broken things ((Arya, Sansa) I'm not going to fight to the death over the claim that these girls are definitively broken. I just think they sort of fit the term as they're neither bastards nor cripples and are yet to find their strength.) And it's these four characters that are expected to become stronger. Jon is a tough debate as George killed him about 9 years ago and hasn't continued his story. But the cumulative studying from the fandom has highlighted heavy foreshadowing that Jon would traverse between his Direwolf (aptly named Ghost) and back again. Melisandre sort of spelled it out.
 George is moulding Bran to become a man of unparalleled power. We've barely glimpsed his true abilities. As he himself is yet to master them.
 Arya is next level. They way she outwits the kindly man shows the reader that she's building up to 'something'. She's a natural warg. And we know for a fact that a faceless man (or woman) is arguably one of the strongest pieces on the board, so to speak. She's a faceless warg... 
 Sansa. The girl who dreamed of being a queen and yet named her Direwolf "Lady". The girl who hid with Cersei during Stannis' siege and thought to herself 'I will make them love me'. Well, I don't think she'll have to make them (anyone) love her. The North just will. She will be the lady of WF. I think the tale of Bale the Bard is more than mere backstory. When we zoom in on the specific elements of the story. We have a tale of how the Starks, are in-fact the fruit from the loins of a Wildling. The Wiki tells us, 

 

Quote

The Stark line was on the verge of extinction, when one day the girl was back in her room, holding in her arms an infant: they had actually never left Winterfell, staying hidden in the Crypts. Bael's bastard with Brandon's daughter became the new Lord Stark.

That looks like a get out of jail card to me. It tells us outright that a male heir was NOT necessary to continue the line. They needed a warg with a Stark name. I don't know if it's in the blood, or the bones but anyone who rocks up with a Direwolf and a long face could easily be passed off as a Stark. And those traits can easily be passed through the female line. Or there are those far flung branches of house Stark to pick from. 

George want's us to know that when the cold winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives. He wants us to see the Stark children are becoming stronger. He want's us to observe the loyalty and sacrifice offered to house Stark. He wants us to know that we don't need to rely on a patriarchal system - a female stark can produce a male heir with anyone else and it can still be a Stark. He wants us to know that there's a Rickon out there who the North will rally behind.  Bran names his Wolf, Summer

There is just too much to indicate that the North want their Starks. That the Starks themselves are anything but gone. And that there's a number of ways to produce an heir. We don't need to rely on an actual son of Ned. So in order for you to be correct, we'd need these new Starks, who are stronger and will almost certainly align with each other to somehow fail completely or succeed but just allow their house to go extinct and not do anything about it. 

And I've barely even mentioned Rickon. 

Edited by TheThreeEyedCow
Rickon.

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18 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Lol, this thread has been an amusing read.

The reason I don't believe the Starks will go extinct is because in the absence of a real Stark, they'll just invent a new one. There are many characters who wear names that don't truly belong to them. (f)Arya. (f)Aegon. Ramsey wasn't born a Bolton. Joff is technically a Lannister by birth. His siblings too. The Hound isn't necessarily Sandor (and vice versa). Sansa isn't actually Alayne. Tyrion isn't actually Hugor. Stannis isn't Azor Ahai. The list goes on and on.

One observation can be made all too easily over the course of the series.  The Starks don't actually have that many enemies. They appear to have more loyal and friendly houses than they do enemies. Let's look at the North. The Starks could rely on houses Manderly, Lock, Flint, Norrey, Umber, Glover, Tallhart, Cerwyn, and Mormont. Their enemies include Houses Bolton, Dustin and Karstark. Though it's worth mentioning that Barbery               Dustin's dispute appeared to be aimed directly at Ned and not necessarily his entire house. She seems to of loved Brandon fiercely. Her brief encounters with Theon also suggests that she secretly desired to be a Stark.
 The Umbers, for all intents and purposes appear to be split. But considering that the green boys are placed on the side of Stannis, it seems that House Umber is actually giving Bolton men that are expecting to die during the winter anyway. It seems fairly certain that the North as a whole favours a Stark restoration. Oh, the other houses will all be clambering to get into the family. There is ambition there, too. It isn't necessarily blind devotion and pure love. It's just overwhelmingly obvious that most find serving a Stark in WF to be an agreeable fate. It's almost a pre-requisite for peace. In the North anyway. We should mention the Freys too as they do have a presence in the North now. But they are despised. Even Barbery Dustin has to concede that the North will remember. And the Freys do not know winter. Any more than Stannis' troops do. It's heavily implied that southerners are out of their depth north of the neck.

Then we have the fact that George loves his cripples (Bran) bastards (Jon) and broken things ((Arya, Sansa) I'm not going to fight to the death over the claim that these girls are definitively broken. I just think they sort of fit the term as they're neither bastards nor cripples and are yet to find their strength.) And it's these four characters that are expected to become stronger. Jon is a tough debate as George killed him about 9 years ago and hasn't continued his story. But the cumulative studying from the fandom has highlighted heavy foreshadowing that Jon would traverse between his Direwolf (aptly named Ghost) and back again. Melisandre sort of spelled it out.
 George is moulding Bran to become a man of unparalleled power. We've barely glimpsed his true abilities. As he himself is yet to master them.
 Arya is next level. They way she outwits the kindly man shows the reader that she's building up to 'something'. She's a natural warg. And we know for a fact that a faceless man (or woman) is arguably one of the strongest pieces on the board, so to speak. She's a faceless warg... 
 Sansa. The girl who dreamed of being a queen and yet named her Direwolf "Lady". The girl who hid with Cersei during Stannis' siege and thought to herself 'I will make them love me'. Well, I don't think she'll have to make them (anyone) love her. The North just will. She will be the lady of WF. I think the tale of Bale the Bard is more than mere backstory. When we zoom in on the specific elements of the story. We have a tale of how the Starks, are in-fact the fruit from the loins of a Wildling. The Wiki tells us, 

 

That looks like a get out of jail card to me. It tells us outright that a male heir was NOT necessary to continue the line. They needed a warg with a Stark name. I don't know if it's in the blood, or the bones but anyone who rocks up with a Direwolf and a long face could easily be passed off as a Stark. And those traits can easily be passed through the female line. Or there are those far flung branches of house Stark to pick from. 

George want's us to know that when the cold winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives. He wants us to see the Stark children are becoming stronger. He want's us to observe the loyalty and sacrifice offered to house Stark. He wants us to know that we don't need to rely on a patriarchal system - a female stark can produce a male heir with anyone else and it can still be a Stark. He wants us to know that there's a Rickon out there who the North will rally behind.  Bran names his Wolf, Summer

There is just too much to indicate that the North want their Starks. That the Starks themselves are anything but gone. And that there's a number of ways to produce an heir. We don't need to rely on an actual son of Ned. So in order for you to be correct, we'd need these new Starks, who are stronger and will almost certainly align with each other to somehow fail completely or succeed but just allow their house to go extinct and not do anything about it. 

And I haven't even mentioned Rickon. 

Wow, that was great. 100% agree

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On 3/17/2020 at 5:55 PM, Lord Varys said:

I don't see Arya to ever marry or have (legitimate) children of her own, and if Sansa were to marry Harry the Heir her children by him would be Hardyngs or Arryns, nor Starks.

This is only a technicality. The children of an Arya or a Sansa are still Starks even if the surnames are not.  For the purposes of family continuation, which I take to mean the DNA will continue, this is enough.

The surname can be dealt with.  It depends on the power leverage of the female,  Let us take Queen Daenerys and Prince Rhaego.  If the plot went in an unexpected direction and Rhaego were to turn up alive.  Queen Daenerys can declare him a Targaryen and a Targaryen he will be.  Her stature would allow her to do that.  

So let us say Sansa rises up in her world.  Lady of Winterfell, for example.  The father is of lesser social stature.  She can petition the king and have her children declared Starks.  

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