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COVID19/4 Keep calm and wash your hands


Which Tyler

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55 minutes ago, Aemon Stark said:

Only 600?? We supposedly have 98 in NL, though I suspect that overcalls some beds that aren't truly fully capable ICU beds. Either way, that's for half a million people. 

Argh, thanks for reminding me, I had difficulty with that figure as soon as I posted it and I meant to look it up but got distracted.

There are 53,000 hospital beds in NY state and 3,100 and change are ICU beds. But 600 is what the governor said. I suspect he perhaps meant to say ‘there are 600 cases and 65 are in ICU’ and instead said ‘there are 600 beds’.

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8 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Argh, thanks for reminding me, I had difficulty with that figure as soon as I posted it and I meant to look it up but got distracted.

There are 53,000 hospital beds in NY state and 3,100 and change are ICU beds. But 600 is what the governor said. I suspect he perhaps meant to say ‘there are 600 cases and 65 are in ICU’ and instead said ‘there are 600 beds’.

That makes sense.  I’m cutting all these folks a tiny bit of slack right now given the stress.

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2 hours ago, Aemon Stark said:

 

A lot of issues in sepsis amount to this kind of immune "overreaction" - which is why people going on about how "strong" their immune system betray a complete lack of knowledge of how this works. We're not very good at finding effective immune-modulators in sepsis or ARDS or viral pneumonias generally. But antivirals might help - except which ones? Chloroquine, which is an old anti-malarial, might be good. We won't really know for a while. Anti-inflammatory diets are more faddish than anything else for this sort of thing.

Heh. I just received an email from my old holistic doctor (actual MD - I've moved out of state) and she does recommend chloroquine citing the following: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0

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I'm showing symptoms now and a doc or a test are out of the question. I'm very prone to bronchitis so I'm in the risk category and it's trying to set in again. Bright side in everything shutting down is the cleaner the air for those of us with breathing problems :P. Sharing in case anyone else is in a similar situation and equally frustrated with facing home treatment or nothing and hoping to avoid hospitals which might not even be an option in a few weeks.

Also recommends:

  •  A lot of vitamin C which has been proven effective: http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n11.shtml
  • Vitamin D 2000-5000IU per day depending as it's fat soluble and the body stores it. See the link below.
  • Silver nasal spray used nightly before bed
  • Supplements with Echinacea, Elderberry (will email her about this per my earlier post), astragalus, mushrooms, beta glucans, ashwaganda, green tea, D, zinc, NAC, and C)

Doc *very* strongly recommends avoiding flu shots while under this immune-booster regiment.

Also, I regularly breath steam into my lungs both through my sinuses and mouth to keep bronchitis from taking hold. Working this time, too.

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n06.shtml

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1 hour ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

That makes sense.  I’m cutting all these folks a tiny bit of slack right now given the stress.

presumably they have the number of beds they need for normal conditions though, not for when viruses such as this come through. Post operative care, car crashes & other injuries, heart attacks etc

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5 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Heh. I just received an email from my old holistic doctor (actual MD - I've moved out of state) and she does recommend chloroquine citing the following: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0

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I'm showing symptoms now and a doc or a test are out of the question. I'm very prone to bronchitis so I'm in the risk category and it's trying to set in again. Bright side in everything shutting down is the cleaner the air for those of us with breathing problems :P. Sharing in case anyone else is in a similar situation and equally frustrated with facing home treatment or nothing and hoping to avoid hospitals which might not even be an option in a few weeks.

Also recommends:

  •  A lot of vitamin C which has been proven effective: http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n11.shtml
  • Vitamin D 2000-5000IU per day depending as it's fat soluble and the body stores it. See the link below.
  • Silver nasal spray used nightly before bed
  • Supplements with Echinacea, Elderberry (will email her about this per my earlier post), astragalus, mushrooms, beta glucans, ashwaganda, green tea, D, zinc, NAC, and C)

Doc *very* strongly recommends avoiding flu shots while under this immune-booster regiment.

Also, I regularly breath steam into my lungs both through my sinuses and mouth to keep bronchitis from taking hold. Working this time, too.

http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n06.shtml

Sorry to hear it, keep up the good self help & good cheer.

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8 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Thank you.

I’m in a similar boat Scot.  I’m starting a new job on the first, and also we are moving to a different state for it.  Hell of a time to juggle moving with Covid.  Hoping that the new job will be understanding if I have to push back the start date, I imagine they will be, but it does suck to have done all of these preparations, have my house half packed, and have no idea whether driving across the country will even be possible in 2 weeks.

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3 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

NYC closed schools until 4/20. 

It's good that they finally did this, but they did it in the worst way possible. For all of Friday and Saturday, the governor of New York State and mayor of New York City insisted that schools will stay open on Monday. Then, in the late afternoon or even evening of Sunday, the mayor suddenly announced that schools will close after all. This means that instead of having a weekend to make alternate plans for children, parents now only have one evening -- and that's assuming that they heard this announcement.

More generally, it's pretty amazing how utterly incompetent the leadership of New York (both city and state) has been with regards to this virus. The number of cases is almost certainly off by one or more orders of magnitude; the only question is how many orders of magnitude:

Quote

 

New York City officials advised the U.N. diplomatic community on Saturday that the coronavirus has spread widely through the city and could potentially linger as a threat to the health of residents until as late as September, according to four diplomatic sources.

“Everyone in New York should assume that they have been in contact with COVID 19,” city officials told the foreign delegates,according to a read out of a conference call with New York-based diplomats, which was reviewed by Foreign Policy.

 

 

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I'm fully expecting a complete shut-down every day now, so today I will go out and see whatever groceries I can still get. As much as I like how my government is getting its shit together and making swift decisions, I feel like it would have been better not to announce things from one day to the next, it just keeps increasing the anxiety. I refrained from shopping on Saturday because I expected the shelves to have been completely emptied. Hopefully today things have returned to normal a bit...

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20 minutes ago, Toth said:

I'm fully expecting a complete shut-down every day now, so today I will go out and see whatever groceries I can still get. As much as I like how my government is getting its shit together and making swift decisions, I feel like it would have been better not to announce things from one day to the next, it just keeps increasing the anxiety. I refrained from shopping on Saturday because I expected the shelves to have been completely emptied. Hopefully today things have returned to normal a bit...

Did some prepping shopping last weekend. Wasn't so bad. Grocery stores were more crowded than usual and people were buying more stuff. Some empty shelves but no serious shortages. I think they just can't re-stock fast enough. What struck me is people buying kitchen rolls like crazy along with toilet paper. Not sure what the rationale behind that is.

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2 hours ago, Altherion said:

It's good that they finally did this, but they did it in the worst way possible. For all of Friday and Saturday, the governor of New York State and mayor of New York City insisted that schools will stay open on Monday. Then, in the late afternoon or even evening of Sunday, the mayor suddenly announced that schools will close after all. This means that instead of having a weekend to make alternate plans for children, parents now only have one evening -- and that's assuming that they heard this announcement.

More generally, it's pretty amazing how utterly incompetent the leadership of New York (both city and state) has been with regards to this virus. The number of cases is almost certainly off by one or more orders of magnitude; the only question is how many orders of magnitude:

 

I don't understand why you are blaming the New York state and city government for the number of COVID-19 cases in New York when it's 99.9% the fault of Trump and his administration, which includes the leadership of the HHS, CDC and NIAID who should have known better and failed to push back against Trump and his idiotic and disastrous containment with extremely limited testing strategy.  Pandemic response needs to be handled at the federal level, which has the people with the requisite expertise.  The federal government needs to provide leadership and develop and enact the appropriate response and then coordinate with states.  Instead, our federal government is led by an idiot and bully, and they completely failed at this task and only now are acting like its serious. 

It was obvious when China put Wuhan and the surrounding area under quarantine and lockdown almost 3 months ago that COVID-19 was an extreme threat that required an unprecedented response.  Instead, Trump has continued to downplay the threat, even claiming in March that it was less dangerous that the flu so it was OK to do nothing, and wasting almost 3 months of lead time before finally realizing that the threat was real.  The thousands and thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of COVID-19 cases that are sure to come in the next weeks in the US should be squarely laid at Trump's feet, not state and local governments.  

New York and many other states and labs have been pushing the CDC and FDA for months for a working COVID-19 test, and/or to let them and other public and private institutions the ability to quickly develop and use their own assays, but it's only been recently that they've been given permission.  Instead of using the tests that were developed internationally, the CDC chose to develop their own and botched it by sending out defective kits.  Even now, it's unclear whether we currently have the capability to test tens of thousand of samples daily, which is where we needed to be at least two months ago if we really wanted to implement a containment strategy.  Without testing and with Trump and the federal government saying until the last week that COVID-19 wasn't that serious and less dangerous than the flu and that they had a good handle on everything, what realistically could state governments do?  What specific things did the New York state and city government do or fail to do that you believe puts the blame on them and not the federal government?  The late announcement of school closings is inconsequential compared to the failures of the federal government in this matter.

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News on this moves at warp speed, but in any event, as best I can tell, markets believe that this is a 3 month total shut down like in China, and unless the federal government steps in asap with a significant spending package (NOW), we’re in for a significant and severe recession.  This means we are in for a significant and severe recession.  The only glimmer of hope in my mind is that Trump is so obsessed with the markets that someone can convince him that spending (which Pelosi appears to have the will to authorize) is the only thing that will stabilize the markets, so it will go through.  That said, I’m not sure the Senate will act responsibly.

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8 hours ago, S John said:

I’m in a similar boat Scot.  I’m starting a new job on the first, and also we are moving to a different state for it.  Hell of a time to juggle moving with Covid.  Hoping that the new job will be understanding if I have to push back the start date, I imagine they will be, but it does suck to have done all of these preparations, have my house half packed, and have no idea whether driving across the country will even be possible in 2 weeks.

Best of luck to you and your family. 

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10 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

You a #%^**+*^%^*+ commie or something?

Lol. 

But seriously, why the hecc not? I mean, the impact of COVID-19 is several orders of magnitude worse than 9/11. Didn't the markets close for a while after that?

 

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5 hours ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

Tight quarantine measures in place here (being an island helps). Supermarkets are limiting purchases of hand sanitiser, but there has been no panic buying of toilet paper and foodstuffs. Or if there has, it wasn't noticeable when I went to the supermarket today.

I have a silly question: why is everyone going ape over hand sanitizer?  
 

In 2015 When my extended family took a cruise to Alaska the crew was squirting hand sanitizer on everyone.  Most of my extended family thought that was great.  My immediate family and I declined to use it (much to the crew’s frustration) we chose to wash our hands frequently with soap and hot water.  Everyone else got sick.  We did not.

Isn’t soap and hot water better than “hand sanitizer”?

 

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