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US Politics: Testing, Testing, T... Te.. Testing


Tywin Manderly

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1 hour ago, Triskele said:

JC - Have you been lurking for a while and just started posting again, or did you straight just come back from the wilderness?

The reason that I ask is that DMC is my fucking guy, but if we haven't worked through the barrier-to-entry thing then there's potential for confusion and conflict.

@DMC Did you know you were officially my guy?  

I promise all involved that I have nothing but the greater good intent.  

 

 

19 minutes ago, DMC said:

I did not, but :cheers:

Stay your glass, pet! I've not released you from my service and see no reason to do so now. 17 souls were promised on that fateful night, and 13 yet remain to wilt beneath my knife. Sacrifices were made, babes blooded! Ten thousand virgins were consigned to an external torment in the name of your fidelity! 

And to you, monkey beast, away! Away and damnation! Keep your stubby simian fingers off my man men!

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17 hours ago, Kalbear said:

We don't need a 12-18 month shutdown. We need to do the following:

 

  • Deal with the current explosion of cases and shut things mostly down until that's under control (probably a month or so)
  • Enable MASSIVE testing across the country
  • Enforce strict contact tracing and be very vigilant about local outbreaks
  • Use social media and actual media to enforce norms about distancing, safety, cleanliness and reporting
  • Cancel all major big-tail events that can cause major widespread outbreaks, such as conferences, conventions, large concerts and the like

South Korea is the model after we go through the first bit of hell. They did not have to shut their entire country, they did not have to kill their economy, and they did not have to change major parts of their life - because they had the testing, contact tracing ability and governmental factors in play. The US CAN do this. 

This is all sensible and would likely have worked relatively well if we did this two months ago.  But we are way past, or will be soon way past, South Korea numbers of infected.  I think we might need China level of quarantines, or at least like the Bay Area level of lock down in places with significant numbers of infection, to have a chance of getting this under control. 

After reading Altherion's post of what is going on in New York and seeing what's going on there now, I'm baffled that they haven't already locked down NYC and the surrounding area.  That's definitely a failure of the local government.  I'm hoping that most businesses and people there have been taking it upon themselves to self-quarantine.  If not, NYC is going to have an Italy like situation soon.  After enacting a social distancing strategy, it will take weeks before you start seeing what effect it will have.  If the approach is half assed, you will see in 2 to 3 weeks that the rates of infection aren't going down nearly enough.

Has the Seattle area gone under quarantine?  If not, I think that's a big mistake, unless the local businesses and people are doing it by themselves anyway.

And there appears to be numerous areas that are probably just a week or two behind NY/Washington/California.  We essentially need a national lockdown.  I think we'll more or less eventually get there, but it may be too late to stop mass infection of hundreds of thousands of people.

Another thing that would help here is if surgical type masks (or better types) were made available to everyone.  Like many other things, there isn't enough supply here for that.  However, in Asia, it's a relatively common thing, even before this pandemic, for people to wear masks in public, due to previous experience with SARS or pollution.  The wearing of masks would help reduce the transmission rate from people that don't know that they are infectious to healthy people.  Apparently, a significant number of infected people are asymptomatic, but still infectious.  I don't agree with the US recommendation to not wear masks if you feel OK, especially if you have masks handy.  Even wearing a cloth over your mouth and nose would help reduce the spread of droplets.  I don't get why the US experts are recommending against something so simple to do.  

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7 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Stay your glass, pet! I've not released you from my service and see no reason to do so now. 17 souls were promised on that fateful night, and 13 yet remain to wilt beneath my knife. Sacrifices were made, babes blooded! Ten thousand virgins were consigned to an external torment in the name of your fidelity!  

That's like a three years worth of ComicCons?

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Has the Seattle area gone under quarantine?  If not, I think that's a big mistake, unless the local businesses and people are doing it by themselves anyway.

 

Schools, bars, and non-essential businesses closed. You can go to the grocery store and gas station. You can go to work if you aren't work-from-home and haven't been laid off.

 

Quote

 

With the death toll rising and daily life grinding to a halt, Trump’s sprawling political operation has put on hold any plans to use its nine-figure war chest to unload on the former vice president. The strategy, mimicking the playbook of Barack Obama’s 2012 reelection campaign against Mitt Romney, was aimed at crippling the lesser-funded Biden before he could unify the Democratic Party behind him and marshal his forces for November.


The reprieve is a blessing for Biden: Rather than spending valuable time fending off an assault, he is free to present himself as a steady leader amid a national crisis and to regroup for the general election.

The Trump operation’s reassessment underscores how the pandemic has disrupted virtually every element of the campaign for both parties. With less than eight months until Election Day, Trump and Biden are being forced to rethink their plans on everything from fundraising to field operations to staffing.

 

Trump wanted to bury Biden after the primary. Now he can’t.
The former vice president gets a reprieve from the Mitt Romney treatment.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/trump-biden-coronavirus-136197

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1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

 

Schools, bars, and non-essential businesses closed. You can go to the grocery store and gas station. You can go to work if you aren't work-from-home and haven't been laid off.

 

Trump wanted to bury Biden after the primary. Now he can’t.
The former vice president gets a reprieve from the Mitt Romney treatment.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/trump-biden-coronavirus-136197

What about liquor stores and cannabis shops? In Colorado, we're moving toward the non-essential businesses being closed. But I believe when the Governor urged all non-essentials to close, and then he listed the essentials--he specifically mentioned liquor stores and cannabis shops remaining open. Which I think is really smart. I mean, we're from Colorado, no doubt he's basing this decision off the Shining (all of them: the book, the movies, and the Simpson's version) and the fear of what no alcohol might do during a quarantine. 

 

Anyway, I was thinking about the view that Republicans are further left on this than Dems, and I started thinking about a couple of things. Bernie gave Biden a cheat sheet, essentially, of what he wanted Biden to answer in the last debate. Biden seemed stubborn and unwilling to address those concerns, and I truly think this was Bernie knowing the writing was on the wall for him, and he also knows his endorsement of Biden means nothing to a chunk of his supporters--it's about the movement, not Bernie. Bernie campaigned for Clinton more than she did for Obama, he worked hard for her, but that didn't matter to a significant percentage of his supporters. I believe Bernie is trying to avoid this being the case again. So Biden's stubbornness on this seems self-defeating.

Secondly, Trump and his crew know they are in trouble, so I think this is why we're seeing money go directly into the pockets of Americans. I would not be surprised if Trump's next move is to publicly adopt some of Sanders' suggestions for the outbreak, and pay Bernie some name recognition in doing so. This would be an attempt to sway those angry voters, and honestly, Republicans have shown that whatever Trump does is fine. They'll find a way to rationalize why this isn't socialism and Trump potentially gains a chunk of voters that could push him to another electoral victory.

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13 hours ago, DMC said:

If we're still in this when the census needs to start being conducted then we'll all have much more horrible things to worry about.

Uh, we are about 13 days from the census starting since one the instructions are normally to count everyone who was living at your residence on April 1. Maybe they could put off the census like they have done several primaries, but we are definitely still going to "be in this" when the census starts. 

Now, for the first time ever one will be able to go to a website and fill out census forms online, and with people stuck at home more of them will undoubtedly do it that way than they otherwise would have. But COVID-19 is surely going to change the dynamics of the census somehow. 

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5 hours ago, Mudguard said:

Another thing that would help here is if surgical type masks (or better types) were made available to everyone.  Like many other things, there isn't enough supply here for that.  However, in Asia, it's a relatively common thing, even before this pandemic, for people to wear masks in public, due to previous experience with SARS or pollution.  The wearing of masks would help reduce the transmission rate from people that don't know that they are infectious to healthy people.  Apparently, a significant number of infected people are asymptomatic, but still infectious.  I don't agree with the US recommendation to not wear masks if you feel OK, especially if you have masks handy.  Even wearing a cloth over your mouth and nose would help reduce the spread of droplets.  I don't get why the US experts are recommending against something so simple to do.  

I think this is about mask scarcity and not wanting civilians to hoard masks, but we're already too late on that front. My friend is an ER doc in San Francisco and she cannot get any more N95 masks. Medical personnel in Rhode Island are being told to use the same mask for two or more days.

My wife has put in 60 hours at a hospital outside of Boston since Friday and has not had a proper mask for at least two weeks. I open the door for her every night or morning she comes back from a 12-hour shift, and we make sure my son doesn't touch her until she's been able to shed her clothes into a designated laundry basked and taken a shower, to avoid any infection coming that way. But she doesn't have masks and she's asthmatic, so she's a high risk case if she gets infected.

My own company has been very generous in their support as we work from home and keeps some semblance of normalcy in the day. But working from home while being the sole adult responsible for a five year old and being unable to take him anywhere really is getting to me. This is going to be a long 3/6/18 months, even in the most optimistic scenarios.

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29 minutes ago, Ormond said:

Uh, we are about 13 days from the census starting since one the instructions are normally to count everyone who was living at your residence on April 1. Maybe they could put off the census like they have done several primaries, but we are definitely still going to "be in this" when the census starts. 

 

12 hours ago, DMC said:

I mean it's not a big deal if it's delayed for awhile.

The primary purpose of the census is apportionment that starts being applied in the 2022 elections.  There is still plenty of time to figure that out if need be.

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15 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

My own company has been very generous in their support as we work from home and keeps some semblance of normalcy in the day. But working from home while being the sole adult responsible for a five year old and being unable to take him anywhere really is getting to me. This is going to be a long 3/6/18 months, even in the most optimistic scenarios.

Indeed.  My wife and I are both lucky enough to be able to work from home, and to have the money to stock up on food and stay indoors the past week.  But trying to effectively work from home while rotating childcare for our 2 year old is very challenging.  Both of us are working extra hours at night after he goes to bed to make up for productivity lost during the day.  Every day feels sort of the same, and there's nothing to look forward to on the weekends or in the coming months.  This is a grind already, and it's only been a week. 

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20 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I think this is about mask scarcity and not wanting civilians to hoard masks, but we're already too late on that front. My friend is an ER doc in San Francisco and she cannot get any more N95 masks. Medical personnel in Rhode Island are being told to use the same mask for two or more days.

My wife has put in 60 hours at a hospital outside of Boston since Friday and has not had a proper mask for at least two weeks. I open the door for her every night or morning she comes back from a 12-hour shift, and we make sure my son doesn't touch her until she's been able to shed her clothes into a designated laundry basked and taken a shower, to avoid any infection coming that way. But she doesn't have masks and she's asthmatic, so she's a high risk case if she gets infected.

Even a makeshift mouth and nose covering made from cloth or paper towels would help reduce droplet spread.  We need to be doing everything possible to reduce the chance of transmission, especially in areas that still aren't in lockdown.

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Last night we were registered for a (Zoom) Working Families party webchat.  Warren made an appearnce, but the feature was the head of the nurses union of Washington (state). She says “social distancing” is a terrible choice for what is, to be effective, “Physical Distancing.” Washington's nursing and hospital and medical system is falling apart. For decades now the US attitude to public health is crisis, not wellness. Essentially she said, this nation is sick, and this crisis is both symptom and consequence. This morning the head of public health of New York City said the same, and so did Governor Cuomo about the state's capacities and facilities.

In the meantime, the rethug senators smugly respond when asked why they and rich people and sports figures get tested and treated easily when the rest of us don't: "That's what happens, that's how it works, what do you expect?"

This is a happy place opportunity for them to genocide the elderly, the infirm, the poor, the homeless and the sick -- and the small business.

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Tulsi Gabbard has dropped out and endorsed Biden.

Zorral, we all hate Trump and crowd, but even I don't think this was deliberate, except in the sense Trump probably kept hearing "most people won't get it or won't even know they've had it". Gross negligence, but not murder.

eta: or do you have 'criminal negligence causing death'?

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52 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

or do you have 'criminal negligence causing death'

Also profiteering out of the death, etc.

They found their opportunity and they are ON IT and thrilled it's here.  How could you think otherwise considering ALL THE THINGS THEY HAVE ALREADY COMMITTED of utmost cruelty concluding in death?  Considering ALL THE THINGS THEY SAY and have said for decades?

It's government as (capitalist system) business and profit TRUMPS all, and is carefully managed to go only into the autocratic oligarchy's pockets.  Read a history of the Hansa League, pure undiluted capitalism at work.  For example: they would not risk any investment or capital for ransom even for the relief of one their own League's and family's cities, because that was unproductive use of money that would only encourage others to siege their ports.   The death of many for the profit a few was their religion their law and they didn't care even if any of their families died in the process.  These people are no different.  These people have always been with us and they have often ruled nations.

Anyone who thinks capitalists aren't running things here intentionally without compunction of realizing profit and power out of death -- two words: Purdu Pharma. Then there's the saboteur's family attempt to buy up the virus vaccine research to get the copyrights and production for itself and itself only -- while the damned Jared Kushner has proven over and over just in this situation plus so many others, that even when given all the breaks he effs it up.  The CDC -- totally sidelined in favor of his 'research.'

 

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1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Indeed.  My wife and I are both lucky enough to be able to work from home, and to have the money to stock up on food and stay indoors the past week.  But trying to effectively work from home while rotating childcare for our 2 year old is very challenging.  Both of us are working extra hours at night after he goes to bed to make up for productivity lost during the day.  Every day feels sort of the same, and there's nothing to look forward to on the weekends or in the coming months.  This is a grind already, and it's only been a week. 

I have worked from home for the past 16 months or so and have really mixed feelings about it.  It is nice in most of the ways that people imagine, but the downside is that you are never not at work.  In the midst of big projects I would find myself stopping into the office room in the middle of the night if I got up to pee or something just to check on the progress of one thing or another.  My company was based on the west coast and I’m in the central time zone so their workday was still going when I was ready to quit for the day and everyone always ‘forgot’ about the time difference.  The beeping sound that Skype chat makes gave me mild ptsd after a while.

Though it’s a pretty crappy time for it to change, I’m starting a new job soon where I need to be physically present and other than the whole pandemic thing I’m looking forward to it.  The ideal for me is probably a mixture of days in the office and days working from home.  100% remote was a bit too much remote for me.

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Gross negligence, but not murder.

eta: or do you have 'criminal negligence causing death'?

 

the US president is absolutely immune to civil liability for acts taken within the scope of office.  nixon v. fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 731 (1982). more than likely the US president enjoys a privilege against criminal prosecution while in office, but is not immune.  hard to see how there could be criminal responsibility for duly authorized constitutional acts undertaken pursuant to statute, however.

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10 minutes ago, sologdin said:

the US president is absolutely immune to civil liability for acts taken within the scope of office.  nixon v. fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 731 (1982). more than likely the US president enjoys a privilege against criminal prosecution while in office, but is not immune.  hard to see how there could be criminal responsibility for duly authorized constitutional acts undertaken pursuant to statute, however.

I always forget that.

But, he's declared this a war - how about war crimes?

Being facetious, of course.

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