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Why is Hollywood responding so strongly to actors criticisms regarding Game of Thrones predominately white cast with the big upcoming epic fantasy adaptations?


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4 hours ago, polishgenius said:

The reasons for it happening may have been entirely practical (though let's be honest even just bringing in a few out-of-town actors to avoid completely embodying that trope on-screen shouldn't have been beyond them)  but the complete lack of care in presenting that situation to avoid those tropes and others spoke huge howling volumes about the way GoT creators thought, or didn't, about perceptions of race. It's an awful visual.
 

I don't think very many people cared about this other than those who are making a career writing and talking about issues of race, identity, intersectionality, etc. 

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12 minutes ago, Pecan said:

I don't think very many people cared about this other than those who are making a career writing and talking about issues of race, identity, intersectionality, etc. 


Yeah, this is a hot garbage take.

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Misty Copeland was, I think, the first African-American primaballerina in the world. There is no more cruel and yes, racist industry than ballet. Ballerimnas are supposed to be skinny, small and yes, white. That changed. Misty played numerous roles quite successfully - the roles that are meant and played by white dancers.

More than that, theater world across the globe shows us that classics like Shakespeare are played in Asia, Africa or South America without any problems. 

So, why do we make such an issue with this? I mean it is not like any of the epic fantasy characters has the weight of IDK, Shakespeare's Juliet. As much as I like Robert Jordan and his world, I would have no problems with colorblind casting. But, it does raise another question. If you have a world as rich as Jordan's, so culturally diverse, is there a real necessity to do that. And is there a necessity to use it as a selling point. I like how Holly Marie Combs derided new "Charmed" reboot when she said that thew new producers behaved like the original show wasn't funny, intense and feminist. Simply, Hollywood wants to sell diversity. But, it is not something you sell or use as a marketing point. It's something that you do. I feel as if someone needs to make a racially diverse cast and just allow audience to enjoy it. Without someone making a point. Just natural enjoyment. Simple as that.

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2 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Are they actually using it as a selling point for WoT?

I feel as if Judkins have talked about nothing else but how he wants to have diverse cast and changes that have been made. That said, I could be wrong.

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1 hour ago, Risto said:

I feel as if Judkins have talked about nothing else but how he wants to have diverse cast and changes that have been made. That said, I could be wrong.

I honestly don't know. My interest in WoT has waned quite a lot so I haven't been paying much attention to this.

Have they cast Elayne yet? *googles*

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7 hours ago, Pecan said:

I don't think very many people cared about this other than those who are making a career writing and talking about issues of race, identity, intersectionality, etc. 

Completely agree. It was a controversy cooked up by click baity sites to get more clicks.

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4 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

I honestly don't know. My interest in WoT has waned quite a lot so I haven't been paying much attention to this.

Have they cast Elayne yet? *googles*

No, as far as I know, Elayne has not been cast.

There are several EPIC FANTASY groups in Serbian and WOT is VERY POPULAR. A lot of people have been talking about that, which is why I got that impression. Plus, I read some interviews...

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26 minutes ago, Risto said:

No, as far as I know, Elayne has not been cast.

I know they kept their cards close to their chests on casting, but I wouldn't be wildly surprised if they shifted the introduction of the Andoran royals to the 2nd season, with Elayne, Gawyn, and possibly Galad being at the White Tower when Egwene and Nynaeve arrive. After all, you usually don't want to get a 2nd season and on recurring or regular character introduced in a one-off scene in the 1st season for reasons of showbusiness practicality. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Been a long time since I read the early books. I wonder about Lanfear now too. 

She makes her first appearance in The Great Hunt, so wouldn't be surprised if they haven't cast her as of yet either.

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54 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Hmm I was under the impression they were going to cover the first three books in the first season. I’ll go look some stuff up rather then bore you all with my questions.

I don't know about TDR as well, but it seems like they planned to get into the early part of TGH at least. But Lanfear only shows up part way through as I recall.

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10 hours ago, Pecan said:

Why wouldn't I think they're white? It's the obvious interpretation. The books were written primarily for western audiences where authors, if they are writing about non-white characters, will typically point that out more clearly. If you can find something in the text that says they aren't white, I will happily cede the point.

 

The one major time I recall that the skin colour of people from the Two Rivers is brought up that I can recall is in Eye of the World when Rand is in Caemlyn and brought before Morgase and Elaida, Elaida comments:

Quote

“Two Rivers people are dark of hair and eye, and they seldom have such height.”

Her hand darted out to push back his coat sleeve, exposing lighter skin the sun had not reached so often. “Or such skin.”

Rand being half-aiel is quite pale, so we know that people from the Two Rivers aren't very pale, beyond that I don't think anyone can say for sure.

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2 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Hmm I was under the impression they were going to cover the first three books in the first season. I’ll go look some stuff up rather then bore you all with my questions.

They're covering all of the first book with some cuts (Baerlon) and some additions (we see Logain's story first-hand), incorporating some New Spring flashbacks and an unknown amount of The Great Hunt (probably not a huge amount based on casting). No indication of them doing all of Books 2 and 3.

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1 hour ago, Poobah said:

Rand being half-aiel is quite pale, so we know that people from the Two Rivers aren't very pale, beyond that I don't think anyone can say for sure.

It's not something I paid a great deal of attention to when I read the books and it's been a while now but I think Jordan probably meant the Two Rivers population to be roughly Southern European in appearance rather than non white but it wasn't particularly an important part of the story so it doesn't really matter. :dunno:

The only population he really made a point of focusing on the physical characteristics of was the Aiel. I think that was to make a bit of a point about the movement of populations following the Breaking and as a way to distinguish Rand.   

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2 hours ago, ljkeane said:

It's not something I paid a great deal of attention to when I read the books and it's been a while now but I think Jordan probably meant the Two Rivers population to be roughly Southern European in appearance rather than non white but it wasn't particularly an important part of the story so it doesn't really matter. :dunno:

The only population he really made a point of focusing on the physical characteristics of was the Aiel. I think that was to make a bit of a point about the movement of populations following the Breaking and as a way to distinguish Rand.   

I find it really amusing how a lot of Americans or British people seem to have this idea that Southern Europeans are "dark skinned". Most aren't. Except maybe after a lot of tanning (and fake tanning). Maybe some Sicilians and a few Greeks are an exception, but mostly it's just a bunch of non-Nordic white people where the majority has dark hair and brown eyes, not that there aren't lots of blondes and an occasional natural redhead, too. It's just extremely unlikely you'll ever see any of those really pale, almost white haired Nordic people. The only times I've ever seen them in real life was one Finnish girl and a family of Swedish tourists.

Except for Romani, who are brown skinned and visibly not white (South Asian) and who definitely stand out and are exposed to a lot of racism. Because it's usually really easy to see the difference between a dark haired Southern European/Southeast European person and an actual POC.

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On 3/18/2020 at 12:00 PM, Annara Snow said:

And yet movies and TV adaptations of Wuthering Heights, for instance, have always been casting white actors as Heathcliff (with a very rare exception), even though the character being visibly non-white and different from the other characters in the novel, and racism he suffered growing up, is a big part of his story in the novel.

I took a look at imdb and see the 2011 adaptation did cast a light-skinned black actor for Heathcliff.

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15 hours ago, Pecan said:

Why wouldn't I think they're white? It's the obvious interpretation. The books were written primarily for western audiences where authors, if they are writing about non-white characters, will typically point that out more clearly. If you can find something in the text that says they aren't white, I will happily cede the point.

The cast looks like something you would see in a CW show. But maybe I'm wrong and they're all brilliant. 

 

I'm really curious how exactly would an author writing "for a Western audience" (which is indicated how?) need to describe a character in a story taking place in a universe with no racial classifications or notioms of race, for you to decide that they are not white?

If it's "he has dark hair and brown eyes" - "It's obviously a dark-haired white person"

"And this character has straight black hair' - "yep, must be a white person"

"Dark curly hair..." - "Sounds Black Irish"

"Dark skin..." - "Oh, probably Greek or Spanish"

What would it take to allow the possibility that some of these characters may not be white? Short of old-fashioned and now kinda racist sounding mentions of "slanty eyes" or "thick lips" (though you could also still say that a lot of white people have full lips).

This makes me remember how a lot of people missed the fact that Rue and Thresh in The Hunger Games were black, even though they were explicitly described as dark skinned and happen to live in what used to be USA, and made a big fuss when a black actress was cast to play a black character, Rue.

 

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