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Pedro Luiz

Purple Wedding, Finally Solved.

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11 hours ago, teej6 said:

Oh I missed that from JS. Kind of hard to read his wall of information. Yes, I agree, wine looking purple on white skin is ludicrous. He’s just grasping at straws at this point.

Indeed.  That's why I try to keep my responses brief and to the point. I have had these conversations ad nauseam but the positive outcome is that I know the relevant chapter as well as other connected stuff through and through, and I saved the key points for future reference :D

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21 hours ago, teej6 said:

As @kissdbyfire by fire said most people don’t hold their cup to their mouth when they are coughing/ spewing/ throwing up. Read the text before you make your arguments/ assumptions.

It’s, kof, the pie, noth—kof, pie.” Joff took another drink, or tried to, but all the wine came spewing back out when another spate of coughing doubled him over.

He spewed the wine back out when he started coughing again and doubled over. It’s ridiculous to assume that he’s holding the cup to his mouth while he’s having a coughing fit and doubling over. What a good boy Joffrey is, even as he’s coughing his lungs out he makes sure to barf into the cup.

Again, read the text. Here I’ll quote it again for you:

The king’s chalice was on the table where he’d left it. Tyrion had to climb back onto his chair to reach it. Joff yanked it from his hands and drank long and deep, his throat working as the wine ran purple down his chin. “My lord,” Margaery said, “we should return to our places. Lord Buckler wants to toast us.”

The above happens long before he starts coughing or barfing like you say.

Sorry, but the text is clear. He is trying to drink, he has the cup at his lips. "but all the wine" that he has just drunk came "spewing back out when another spate of coughing doubled him over." So again, I ask you, if none of this wine made it back into the cup and none of it was on the floor, where on earth did it go?

Yes, and as I've shown you conclusively, this is perfectly natural for a thin sheen of wine against white skin. It could look no other color but purple. Again, try it yourself if you don't believe me.

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21 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Sorry but you haven’t proven anything. And the wine is described as purple before Joffrey spews it, as the text clearly shows:

“The king’s chalice was on the table where he’d left it. Tyrion had to climb back onto his chair to reach it. Joff yanked it from his hands and drank long and deep, his throat working as the wine ran purple down his chin. “My lord,” Margaery said, “we should return to our places. Lord Buckler wants to toast us.”

As to your calculations, I have already said all I had to say: it’s all speculation on your part. I do however understand some things better now... from your reply it seems you don’t agree w/ most of the answers for the many mysteries; so I suppose it makes sense that you don’t believe the poison was in the wine. :dunno:

 

Yes, and as I've already proven to you, a thin sheen of red wine running down pale white skin is going to look purple every time. Try it yourself if you don't believe me.

And as the text proves conclusively, without any shadow of a doubt, this highly poisoned, discolored wine is entering Joffrey's throat in massively larger quantities than Cressen's half-swallow. So even if relative dilution did have anything to do with the speed of the attack, then Joffrey should have dropped in a fraction of the time that Cressen did. Clearly he did not, so equally clearly this wine is not poisoned despite the fact that it looks purple on Joffrey's chin, which is factually exactly at it should look under those circumstances.

What "many mysteries" are you talking about? That Cersei and/or Jaime killed Jon Arryn? Sure, I don't believe that. Do you? But it sure looked that way before we found out who really did it, and then we realized that the clues to the correct answer were right in front of us all along. The only way you could have missed it is if you insisted that things that were refuted in the text were actually real because you've invented imaginary facts to justify them. Same thing for the Red Wedding, the lie about the dagger and so many other things that appeared to be one thing but then turned out to be another. Martin does this all the time, he is still doing it, and he will probably do it right up to the last word in the series. He's that good.

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7 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Sorry, but the text is clear. He is trying to drink, he has the cup at his lips. "but all the wine" that he has just drunk came "spewing back out when another spate of coughing doubled him over." So again, I ask you, if none of this wine made it back into the cup and none of it was on the floor, where on earth did it go?

Yes, and as I've shown you conclusively, this is perfectly natural for a thin sheen of wine against white skin. It could look no other color but purple. Again, try it yourself if you don't believe me.

You are really grasping at straws now. Several posters have shown you how your argument is flawed and not supported by the text but you keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Since none of us can convince you and you seem to be making assumptions from thin air, I’m done with this conversation. Enjoy!

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21 hours ago, Ygrain said:

You know, such statements make me wonder whether you are arguing in earnest.  Unless Joff was pale blue, there is no reason why non-purple wine should look purple on him.

Sure. Tyrion notices that the colour looks weird and never, ever thinks about it afterwards, not does anyone else. Curiously, the Cressen prologue never mentions a change in colour, either.

 

Try it yourself. Run a thin like of red wine over white skin and tell me that it doesn't look purple, particularly if you illuminate it with orange torchlight off a golden chalice. Try it with a piece of white paper. And there are a number of examples in the book where red wine stains on beards and clothes and other things are said to be purple. But every time it is described in the glass, it is red -- except this one time. How odd.

What are you talking about? Everybody thinks the wine was poisoned, even Tyrion. All he knows is that he is not the one who did it.

Exactly, the Cressen prologue never mentions a change in the color of his wine, yet we know it was poisoned with just a "flake" of a crystal and it took him down in five seconds or less. Joffrey's wine is supposed to be so thoroughly poisoned that it has turned deep purple and he is drinking substantially larger quantities of it, and he shows no sign of poisoning at all, not a peep, scratch, cough, nothing whatsoever, for five, 10, 15, 20 seconds. Despite what you choose to believe, this is an extraordinary amount of time when describing a chemical process on the throat. Take any kind of crystal you like, sugar, salt, borax, and place it on the tongue of an old man and another on that of a younger man and you'll see that the reaction is equal in both cases. Age, health, heart rate, etc. have nothing at all to do with the timing, just the intensity. So there is no way to explain away this discrepancy other than that there was no poison in the wine. And then the kicker is that Joffrey starts to cough slightly after he puts the pie in his mouth and then starts to really choke approximately five seconds after washing the pie down his throat with wine, exactly like Cressen.

So deny it all you want, and feel free to make up any and all facts, texts, theories, whatever to support your flawed conclusion, but the facts in the text and in the real world all point to the pie, which also fits perfectly with the logistics of the plan, the motivations of the two plotters, their actions before, during and after the wedding and their ultimate goals to win the Game of Thrones. Everybody does exactly as they should do in order to poison Tyrion's pie, while everybody does exactly the opposite of what they should be doing if their goal is to poison Joffrey's wine.

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15 minutes ago, teej6 said:

You are really grasping at straws now. Several posters have shown you how your argument is flawed and not supported by the text but you keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Since none of us can convince you and you seem to be making assumptions from thin air, I’m done with this conversation. Enjoy!

The straws are all yours, my friend. Where did the spewed wine go if not back into the cup? If you can't answer that simple question, then your theory is DOA while mine is confirmed, despite the ill-informed opinions of "several posters."

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1 minute ago, John Suburbs said:

The straws are all yours, my friend. Where did the spewed wine go if not back into the cup? If you can't answer that simple question, then your theory is DOA while mine is confirmed, despite the ill-informed opinions of "several posters."

Please explain how a person who is in a coughing fit and doubling over spews into a cup. How does that work? Joffrey is dying and he has the good sense to throw up in a cup!! Where did the wine go? On his clothes, on the floor. Just because GRRM doesn’t give a description of where a mouthful of wine fell, doesn’t mean you have a point.

You argued that there was pie on the floor, which of course is not in the text but another one of your assumptions. When you were called out on this you stated that Tyrion didn’t strain the wine after he emptied the cup or dig his fingers through the contents on the floor. So you can make up things like imaginary pie on the floor, imagine the wine was purple on Joffrey’s face due to his pale face (I suppose this imagination of yours is stemming from what was depicted in that abomination), and assume that Joffrey “barfed into the cup”.  If you’ve seen anyone choking you’ll know it’s quite impossible for a person who is coughing, choking, and doubling over to vomit into a cup. If you read the text you’ll see that Joffrey spews the wine after he has a coughing fit and doubles over. So yes, your argument are just grasping at straws. 

As I mentioned earlier, this is a pointless exercise as you continue to repeat your head canon and fanciful assumptions. 

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2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Yes, and as I've already proven to you, a thin sheen of red wine running down pale white skin is going to look purple every time. Try it yourself if you don't believe me.

Please be serious. And again, you haven't proven a thing.

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In GRRMth, the tricks with colour purple are 1) looking almost black, 2) being brought out or subdued to blue by the colour of clothes and hair. Both concern purple that already exists and there are no cases of red looking purple under any conditions.

Besides, there is no mention about the lighting at Purple Wedding, at least not in ASOS, With the Lannisters being classy, as someone had claimed, there might have been candles, not torches.

And if lighting and proximity to the gold chalice can make the colour look purple, it applies to the wine left in the chalice, as well.

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22 hours ago, teej6 said:

Please explain how a person who is in a coughing fit and doubling over spews into a cup. How does that work? Joffrey is dying and he has the good sense to throw up in a cup!! Where did the wine go? On his clothes, on the floor. Just because GRRM doesn’t give a description of where a mouthful of wine fell, doesn’t mean you have a point.

You argued that there was pie on the floor, which of course is not in the text but another one of your assumptions. When you were called out on this you stated that Tyrion didn’t strain the wine after he emptied the cup or dig his fingers through the contents on the floor. So you can make up things like imaginary pie on the floor, imagine the wine was purple on Joffrey’s face due to his pale face (I suppose this imagination of yours is stemming from what was depicted in that abomination), and assume that Joffrey “barfed into the cup”.  If you’ve seen anyone choking you’ll know it’s quite impossible for a person who is coughing, choking, and doubling over to vomit into a cup. If you read the text you’ll see that Joffrey spews the wine after he has a coughing fit and doubles over. So yes, your argument are just grasping at straws. 

As I mentioned earlier, this is a pointless exercise as you continue to repeat your head canon and fanciful assumptions. 

He's drinking form the cup. He coughs/barfs into the cup, doubles over and drops the cup. Joffrey is not dying yet, he is coughing, and now he's barfing. He is still on his feet. On his clothes? On the floor? Once again, the wine theory requires completely made up facts that are brushed off with that tired old canard that "just because it's not in the book doesn't mean it didn't happen." The simple fact is, it's not in the book because it didn't happen. Tyrion is giving you a moment-by-moment description of everything that is happening. If the barf had gone anywhere but the cup then Tyrion would have seen it, but the scene is described very accurately: Joff tries to drink but barfs instead, and there is no way that at least some of it didn't go directly into the cup that he is trying to drink from.

When did I ever say there was pie on the floor? The only pie on the floor would have been whatever sediment was in the last half-inch that Tyrion poured out. And no, Tyrion did not strain the wine or even swirl it around, so again these are more facts that you need to invent out of thin air just to get your theory to work. He looks into the cup, sees deep purple wine, and then dumps it. There is no reason to think he would see anything but deep purple wine because any and all sediment will sink right to the bottom. So once again, the text clearly shows what I am saying, but to make it fit your theory you have to invent all kinds of things that simply don't exist.

It is not impossible to barf into a cup when you are drinking from that very cup at the time. In fact, it's impossible not to barf into it. The exact line is "but all the wine came spewing back when another spate of coughing doubled him over." All of this happens in one sequence: drink, cough, spew, double; not drink, put the chalice down, cough, spew all over himself and the floor, double. So sorry friend, but you are grasping at an entire bushel of straws here. Huge ones.

And as I said, if this were the only disconnect between the wine and the text then we could give it the benefit of the doubt. But in order to believe the wine, we have to make these same stretches of the wildest imagination, or even greater ones, at literally every point in the text. From start to finish, literally everything with the wine is starkly contradictory to the text.

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21 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Please be serious. And again, you haven't proven a thing.

Try it, and you'll see. Just make sure you're using a candle or at least incandescent light, not fluorescent. Or just drop red wine on a piece of white paper and you'll see that it turns purple. If you're not willing to see for yourself, then you can't say I haven't proven it.

But you also keep glossing over the fact that purple or no, Joffrey's wine still cannot be poisoned at this point because otherwise he would have dropped in five seconds. And no amount of rationalizing about health and throat muscle strength can change this, not even that tired old canard about how this is all fiction and Martin can make his poison do whatever magical thing he wants. There is absolutely no reason to draw this scene out with the pie and the taunts and all the rest if it was the wine all along. Joffrey should have just drunk his wine and dropped.

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8 hours ago, Ygrain said:

In GRRMth, the tricks with colour purple are 1) looking almost black, 2) being brought out or subdued to blue by the colour of clothes and hair. Both concern purple that already exists and there are no cases of red looking purple under any conditions.

Good points about purple. There may be added complexity, however, from shades of lilac, lavender, violet, indigo, plum and other purple-related shades. Because of their violet eyes, I associate shades of purple with Targaryen-linked characters, but I haven't made an exhaustive study. Varys smells of lavender and lilacs. The first sentences of Dany's first POV in AGoT describe an outfit that will bring out the violet in her eyes. The eyes of her brother, Viserys, are always described as lilac.

Aside from its color, the wine dribbling over Joffrey's chin might have to be examined in relationship to the wine-stain birthmark on the face of Bloodraven. When a character has a wine stain on his clothes, I suspect that character is an agent of, or manifestation of, or successor to, Bloodraven. My guess is that GRRM does not specify what happens to the wine Joffrey is unable to swallow (i.e., "It ran down the front of his shirt, creating a stain ... " or "It soaked into the tablecloth" or "pooled on the floor" or whatever) because Joffrey is not part of the Bloodraven symbolism. All we are told is that Joffrey didn't swallow it and that it dribbled down his chin. By contrast, Tyrion is soaked in wine at this feast. GRRM might even be making the point that Joffrey failed at having a wine stain on his chin - he is not a character with a third eye.

In the ASOIAF language of fruit, grapes represent eyes. Wine is usually made from grapes. I suspect that the wine stain birthmark symbolism for Bloodraven is that he loses an eye in combat with Bittersteel but he has a third eye represented by his wine stain birthmark. (As we see with Maester Aemon and with Arya's Blind Beth interlude, sometimes the blind characters have superior "vision" and insights.) Bloodraven's birthmark stain is supposedly shaped like a raven (although Dunk doesn't see the resemblance) so Bloodraven's third eye is a bird. Of course, Bloodraven has a thousand eyes and one. Maybe the release of the birds from Joffrey and Margaery's ceremonial wedding pie represents the return of Bloodraven as a force in the Westeros power structure.

I hate to bring this up because I really don't want to reignite the bickering, but there is book-based evidence regarding what happened when Joffrey spit out his mouthful of pigeon pie. The connection between the flakes of rust in Bran's POV and the flakes of crust coming from Joffrey's mouth tells me that this is the best likely characterization of Joffrey's spitting: "the air was filled." This would be further reinforced by the image of the doves or pigeons flying out of the pie crust. This is an airborne magic (or virus, if you will). Like the rust on the gate Hodor struggles to open at the Queen's Crown, the crust in Joffrey's mouth is most likely spewed into the air.

One more thought about purple.

Most readers believe that Bloodraven secretly assumed the identity of Maynard Plumm in The Mystery Knight. So, in this turning point in ASOIAF,  Bloodraven's presence may be symbolized by the spilled wine (wine stain birthmark), the flying birds / spies (1000 eyes and one; raven symbolism) and by the turning of red wine to purple (plum is a shade of purple). Maybe the point in the change of color in the wine is that Lannister red is being replaced by purple. We just have to pin down what purple represents.

I would keep an eye on Olenna in this analysis. Not for nothing was she born into House Redwyne of the Arbor. And we strongly suspect that she was part of the plot to poison Joffrey's wine. Keep in mind that she was originally in love with a Targaryen but had to settle for her Tyrell husband.

As I mentioned in my previous comment, I think we need to find Parmen Crane to solve the purple question. He was Renly's purple guard and his status is a bit mysterious at this point - he is apparently a prisoner of war at Highgarden. (Which might mean that the Tyrells "own" purple at the moment. Meredyth "Merry" Crane is one of Margaery's ladies.)

The word "Crane" is often associated with the neck of a dragon, iirc, which means it is linked to the word "serpentine," which is also associated with the neck of a dragon. House Crane is further associated with dragons because its traditional seat is at Red Lake - a lake that used to be called Blue Lake but it changed color when blood ran into the lake. (And what color does red and blue make?) After the Dance of the Dragons, the dragon Silverwing (ridden by Queen Alysanne) made its home on an island in Red Lake. I suspect there are dragon eggs on that island.

So lots of potential dragon and Targaryen connections if we can pin down the meaning of purple.

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9 hours ago, Ygrain said:

In GRRMth, the tricks with colour purple are 1) looking almost black, 2) being brought out or subdued to blue by the colour of clothes and hair. Both concern purple that already exists and there are no cases of red looking purple under any conditions.

Besides, there is no mention about the lighting at Purple Wedding, at least not in ASOS, With the Lannisters being classy, as someone had claimed, there might have been candles, not torches.

And if lighting and proximity to the gold chalice can make the colour look purple, it applies to the wine left in the chalice, as well.

Quote

Although evenfall was still an hour away, the throne room was already a blaze of light, with torches burning in every sconce.

. . .

The laughter crashed over him like a wave. Tyrion Lannister did not remember rising, nor climbing on his chair, but he found himself standing on the table. The hall was a torchlit blur of leering faces.

I'll have to look for them but there are examples of red wine stains looking purple. Tormund's beard at one point, IIRC, and someone else's doublet. Thin layers of red wine look purple. Facts are facts. Sorry.

The wine in the chalice is not just purple, but deep purple (another rock n roll nod, George?). Nowhere else is red wine described this way, ever. But now are you saying that there was no poison in Joffrey's wine even at this point? That this is just another trick of light? Then to maintain any logical consistency at all, you must concede that it was in the pie.

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6 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

He's drinking form the cup. He coughs/barfs into the cup, doubles over and drops the cup. 

Wrong again. Are you just refusing to the read the text or are you just playing dumb intentionally? For the umpteenth time here’s the text again:

Joff took another drink, or tried to, but all the wine came spewing back out when another spate of coughing doubled him over. His face was turning red. “I, kof, I can’t, kof kof kof kof . . .” The chalice slipped from his hand and dark red wine went running across the dais.

I’ll break it down for you, it’s not that hard. Everything before the word “when“ in the text above happens after and is a consequence of Joffrey’s coughing and doubling over. So the sequence of events is: First, Joffrey takes a mouthful of wine; second, Joffrey coughs and doubles over; third, he spews back out the wine he drank; fourth, he turns red and coughs some more; fifth, the cup slips from his hand and its contents spills on the dais.

As GRRM does not show/ write Joffrey falling to the ground, it’s fair to assume that when he says Joffrey doubles over, he’s implying that Joffrey collapsed to the ground. Again, for the umpteenth time, it is impossible for someone who has doubled over/ fallen to “barf” into a cup. The physics of it makes it impossible.

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14 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

I'll have to look for them but there are examples of red wine stains looking purple. Tormund's beard at one point, IIRC, and someone else's doublet. Thin layers of red wine look purple. Facts are facts. Sorry.

My bad, dunno why I missed it in the search. Alright, torchlight it was.

As to the wine stains: don't bother looking, unless you can prove that the wine leaving purple stains did not originally possess any shade of purple - which a passing description of "red wine" as a type of wine does not ensure.

14 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

The wine in the chalice is not just purple, but deep purple (another rock n roll nod, George?). Nowhere else is red wine described this way, ever. But now are you saying that there was no poison in Joffrey's wine even at this point? That this is just another trick of light? Then to maintain any logical consistency at all, you must concede that it was in the pie.

The wine in the chalice is subject to the same lighting as the wine on Joffrey's chin, therefore must look the same. And if you have ever seen a thin layer of wine versus a thicker one, the thin is paler, the thicker is darker. In between these two descriptions, the same wine runs red on the dais. The desrciption switches from a more generic colour (red, originally specified as dark) to a more specific one, back and forth. The wine never changed colour, the strangler is never mentioned to be able to change the colour of the wine, and it doesn't make any sense to use such a poison in a substances that would reveal its presence by changing colour so profoundly. It is used in red wine because the wine hides its colour.

Anyway, this discussion has apparently run its usual course.

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16 hours ago, teej6 said:

Wrong again. Are you just refusing to the read the text or are you just playing dumb intentionally? For the umpteenth time here’s the text again:

Joff took another drink, or tried to, but all the wine came spewing back out when another spate of coughing doubled him over. His face was turning red. “I, kof, I can’t, kof kof kof kof . . .” The chalice slipped from his hand and dark red wine went running across the dais.

I’ll break it down for you, it’s not that hard. Everything before the word “when“ in the text above happens after and is a consequence of Joffrey’s coughing and doubling over. So the sequence of events is: First, Joffrey takes a mouthful of wine; second, Joffrey coughs and doubles over; third, he spews back out the wine he drank; fourth, he turns red and coughs some more; fifth, the cup slips from his hand and its contents spills on the dais.

As GRRM does not show/ write Joffrey falling to the ground, it’s fair to assume that when he says Joffrey doubles over, he’s implying that Joffrey collapsed to the ground. Again, for the umpteenth time, it is impossible for someone who has doubled over/ fallen to “barf” into a cup. The physics of it makes it impossible.

Wrong, sir, wrong. Tried to drink, wine spewing when coughing doubled him over. Nowhere does it say he put the chalice down or even pulled it away from his mouth. Once again, the wine theory relies on completely made-up facts. He barfed into the cup. Deal with it.

No, doubled over does not imply falling to the ground. Doubled over means to bend at the waist, usually uncontrollably. If Joffrey had fallen on the floor, then this is what Tyrion would have seen. Instead, Joffrey drops the chalice. So if Joffrey is already on the floor, how is he still holding the chalice in the air? Yet another made-up excuse that is disproven by the text.

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8 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Wrong, sir, wrong. Tried to drink, wine spewing when coughing doubled him over. Nowhere does it say he put the chalice down or even pulled it away from his mouth. Once again, the wine theory relies on completely made-up facts. He barfed into the cup. Deal with it.

No, doubled over does not imply falling to the ground. Doubled over means to bend at the waist, usually uncontrollably. If Joffrey had fallen on the floor, then this is what Tyrion would have seen. Instead, Joffrey drops the chalice. So if Joffrey is already on the floor, how is he still holding the chalice in the air? Yet another made-up excuse that is disproven by the text.

Now I know you are not arguing in good faith or have problems reading and understanding the text. But go ahead and  continue to make your ridiculous arguments and enjoy debating yourself.

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8 hours ago, Ygrain said:

The wine in the chalice is subject to the same lighting as the wine on Joffrey's chin, therefore must look the same. And if you have ever seen a thin layer of wine versus a thicker one, the thin is paler, the thicker is darker. In between these two descriptions, the same wine runs red on the dais. The desrciption switches from a more generic colour (red, originally specified as dark) to a more specific one, back and forth. The wine never changed colour, the strangler is never mentioned to be able to change the colour of the wine, and it doesn't make any sense to use such a poison in a substances that would reveal its presence by changing colour so profoundly. It is used in red wine because the wine hides its colour.

Anyway, this discussion has apparently run its usual course.

Nonsense, the wine in the chalice is in a tight, enclosed area receiving residual light from the room. The wine on Joffrey's chin is in direct light bouncing off the gold chalice. It is far more plausible (actually, it is certain) to see a thin layer of red wine as purple against white skin in direct orange light than it is to mistake normal red wine as deep purple in the bottom of a huge chalice. And your logic falls apart by the "dark red" wine spilled on the dais. If this is all being made to look purple by the torchlight, then why has it suddenly changed back to red? As well, Cressen is also looking into the bottom of his cup, and his wine looks perfectly normal despite him also being in a brightly lit room with torches. So no, this idea that the light will only change red to purple when it suits the wine theory is silly.

It doesn't make sense to use a poison that would change the color when it is being deployed as expected. When there is a substantial amount of poison in the last half-inch of wine because that is where the king barfed it, then it certainly can be expected to turn purple.

Just sit tight YG. The next book will most likely explain it all. Martin usually has a two-book lag on his reveals.

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1 minute ago, teej6 said:

Now I know you are not arguing in good faith or have problems reading and understanding the text. But go ahead and  continue to make your ridiculous arguments and enjoy debating yourself.

I argue the facts; the real ones, not the make-believe.

But sit tight. This should all be explained in the next book. And then the wine theory will look as silly as the one before Storm came out that had Catelyn force-marrying Jaime to Brienne in the dungeons of Riverrun, because her releasing him into  Brienne's custody to take him back to King's Landing was just too laughable to even contemplate.

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when Dontos says "He choked on his pigeon pie", he doesn't mean he believes the pie was poisoned. Only that, according to all appearances, he choked on his pie. Appearances, as he also says "No murder".

Cressen experience suggests the strangler is best melt in wine (taste, color, whatever). If the poison was in the pie, it was meant for Tyrion. It's unlikely someone, Oberyn in particular, would start his revenge by poisoning him. Even Balon Swann says it, "No one was watching the wine cup". A servant could come and refill the cup, no one would notice.

Maybe Lady Olenna was truly expecting to leave the next day with Sansa. But is was unlikely Joffrey drank the poison and eat the pie at the same time. And that it passes for an accident. That Tyrion and Sansa would not be accused. I rather believe it was all LF plan to bring chaos. That he planned to spirit out Sansa is a hint. It even contributed to the suspicions against them.

Was Lady Olenna part of it? Possibly, but I don't think she knew of LF plans for Sansa.

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