Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Alyn Oakenfist

Will FAegon tame a dragon?

Recommended Posts

So FAegon will almost definitely become King and take KL the Stormlands, The Reach and Dorne, and eventually be brought down by Dany, seing him as another of the ,,Usurper's Dogs" trying to take her birth right (marriage will be impossible given that FAegon will be married to Arianne). After that Dany will become in the eyes of Westeros what she always despised, a usurper and what's more a kinslayer (Targ, Brightflame or Blackfyre he's still kin). The question is will FAegon tame a dragon and take him to the grave before hand. One hint that this will happen is Viserion who is green as opposed to Drogon's black (black vs green dragons, remind you of anything?), though that only suggests that there will be a Dance between Drogon and Viserion. So what do you think? Will FAegon mount a dragon for himself leading to a Dance above KL?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope. I mean, it's possible sure. And I like the Green vs Black comparison. But I think that he'll go the way of Quentyn and perish in the flames. The paper dragon... I think that is what was mentioned to Dany? Citation needed.

Dany is currently away from two of her dragons. Rhaegal - green and bronze. Viserion - cream and gold. So this very moment, with their mother gone, after having them chained up (bad mummy) seems to be the perfect time to tame/take one of these dragons. And I think if it's going to happen, it will be a character currently in that mix. Which is great as there's a plethora of cool candidates. If Tyrion had not sent (f)Aegon west instead of east, I'd say it was totally on the cards. 

As for (f)Aegon himself. I really like the idea that he's a lie that Dany needs to slay. Another one of Varys/Illyrio's deceptions. I like the idea that a real dragon can spot a fake one. And I like the idea she'll get to Westeros where he's now ruling and say "you're in my seat". I can't prove it I just prefer it. 

That all said, maybe (f)Aegon's belief that he is Targaryen is so strong, that he really could convince a real life dragon that they were kin. As in, he could hold his nerve and stand before the creature without quaking in fear. Rhaegal and Viserion, though terrifying to behold, are not so fearsome as the mighty Drogon. I just don't see a set of events leading up to an encounter of that sort. The time to grab one of these dragons is now, in Mereen. With Dany absent.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Viserion is white, bronze and gold, not green. The green dragon is Rhaegal.

I think that by the time Dany will arrive to Westeros, fAegon will be already dead. Golden Company will be defeated by Iron Fleet, and fAegon will be killed by Robert Strong/the Mountain (same as was the real Aegon).

Rhaegal will be Rhaego's dragon, his green-bronze coloring is possibly a hint to Rhaego's Dothraki ancestry - green Grass Sea and Dothraki bronze-colored skin or their bronze arakhs. It's unlikely that there will be confrontation between Dany's dragons. It's unlikely that anyone, besides their fated riders will tame them.

Viserion is going to be Jon's dragon. Back in AGOT thru sound-effects of dragon eggs' hatching, GRRM gave a hint about identities of three dragonriders. Viserion's egg hatched with the sound of shattering stone (his rider is the last dragon that will be awakened from stone - Jon), Rhaegal's egg hatched with he sound of thunder (dosh khaleen, while predicting the birth of the Stallion that mounts the world, said that they hear thunder of his hooves), and Drogon's egg hatched with the sound of breaking of the world (that's because his rider, Dany, is the Breaker of Chains, and thru erradication of slavery in Essos, she will change existing world order, by breaking it and creating a new world without slavery).

P.S. People, don't start with "But Rhaego is dead and blah blah blah". I just wrote my opinion and explanation of why I think that fAegon will never become a dragonrider - because all three dragons are already booked, and because fAegon won't live long enough to see those dragons. This thread is about "Will fAegon tame a dragon", so, please, stay on that topic! Thank you.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So FAegon will almost definitely become King and take KL the Stormlands, The Reach and Dorne, and eventually be brought down by Dany, seing him as another of the ,,Usurper's Dogs" trying to take her birth right (marriage will be impossible given that FAegon will be married to Arianne). After that Dany will become in the eyes of Westeros what she always despised, a usurper and what's more a kinslayer (Targ, Brightflame or Blackfyre he's still kin). The question is will FAegon tame a dragon and take him to the grave before hand. One hint that this will happen is Viserion who is green as opposed to Drogon's black (black vs green dragons, remind you of anything?), though that only suggests that there will be a Dance between Drogon and Viserion. So what do you think? Will FAegon mount a dragon for himself leading to a Dance above KL?

I don't share your belief.  The bond between Daenerys and her dragons are unprecedented. The Targaryens have not had to manually hatch their own dragons.  Neither did they nurse those dragons.  Her dragons know, she hatched them.  She gave them life.  The dragons know.  And taming?  They don't need taming in the way a wild dragon would have to get used to humans.  Her dragons have only known humans and are very comfortable around them.  Getting them to accept a rider is not the same as taming.  It is more about bonding or at the least, tolerating the rider.  Look at what happened at Daznak's.  Drogon invited Daenerys to hop on.  He gave her no choice.  He made it plain to her.  He's not going anywhere unless she goes too.  Aegon is not getting on those dragons unless Daenerys allows it.  Drogon instantly knew what the threat was in the House of the Undying. Viserion and Rhaegal would know friend from foe.  Aegon is not getting on unless he can convince them of his friendly intentions towards mom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only possibility of this I see is a willing test.  Dany says he's fake, Aegon says I'm real.  Someone suggests having the Dragons prove it.  It would be interesting to see.  Rhaegal will obviously ultimately be Jons but that doesn't mean someone else can't ride him in the meantime, it just means that person would have to die while Rhaegal survived so Jon could take him later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

I don't share your belief.  The bond between Daenerys and her dragons are unprecedented. The Targaryens have not had to manually hatch their own dragons.  Neither did they nurse those dragons.  Her dragons know, she hatched them.  She gave them life.  The dragons know.  And taming?  They don't need taming in the way a wild dragon would have to get used to humans.  Her dragons have only known humans and are very comfortable around them.  Getting them to accept a rider is not the same as taming.  It is more about bonding or at the least, tolerating the rider.  Look at what happened at Daznak's.  Drogon invited Daenerys to hop on.  He gave her no choice.  He made it plain to her.  He's not going anywhere unless she goes too.  Aegon is not getting on those dragons unless Daenerys allows it.  Drogon instantly knew what the threat was in the House of the Undying. Viserion and Rhaegal would know friend from foe.  Aegon is not getting on unless he can convince them of his friendly intentions towards mom.

There is a problem with this theory. Quentyn. Given the description in his POV when he tries to tame a dragon, it seems he actually tamed one of them, however the other one burned him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The only possibility of this I see is a willing test.  Dany says he's fake, Aegon says I'm real.  Someone suggests having the Dragons prove it.

I don't know how much that would prove. Alyn Velaryon was almost torched by Sheepstealer, while Nettles whose lineage is extremely ambiguous tamed the dragon and his brother Addam became a dragon rider. Meanwhile, Brown Ben Plumm who has Targaryen blood from about hundred years ago is well-liked by Dany's dragons. 

I'm pretty much in the minority here, but I don't think the dance 2.0 is happening between Dany and Aegon. And I don't think slayer of lies means that she will be killing Stannis or Aegon. You can also slay a lie by exposing the truth, and I don't think that lie has anything to do with Aegon's paternity, but rather with what Rhaegar thought he was, the PtwP, which is what Mel thinks Stannis is. 

That's not to say that there will not be friction between them, but I've always had a very difficult time seeing an all out war between Dany and Aegon. I don't think Aegon will be king when Dany arrives in Westeros. I think Euron will be. And I think he's the one who will have a dragon and he will be the one she has to contend with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Nope. I mean, it's possible sure. And I like the Green vs Black comparison. But I think that he'll go the way of Quentyn and perish in the flames. The paper dragon... I think that is what was mentioned to Dany? Citation needed.

Dany is currently away from two of her dragons. Rhaegal - green and bronze. Viserion - cream and gold. So this very moment, with their mother gone, after having them chained up (bad mummy) seems to be the perfect time to tame/take one of these dragons. And I think if it's going to happen, it will be a character currently in that mix. Which is great as there's a plethora of cool candidates. If Tyrion had not sent (f)Aegon west instead of east, I'd say it was totally on the cards. 

As for (f)Aegon himself. I really like the idea that he's a lie that Dany needs to slay. Another one of Varys/Illyrio's deceptions. I like the idea that a real dragon can spot a fake one. And I like the idea she'll get to Westeros where he's now ruling and say "you're in my seat". I can't prove it I just prefer it. 

That all said, maybe (f)Aegon's belief that he is Targaryen is so strong, that he really could convince a real life dragon that they were kin. As in, he could hold his nerve and stand before the creature without quaking in fear. Rhaegal and Viserion, though terrifying to behold, are not so fearsome as the mighty Drogon. I just don't see a set of events leading up to an encounter of that sort. The time to grab one of these dragons is now, in Mereen. With Dany absent.  

Aegon does not really have to be a Targ, only to have dragonlord blood. While the dragons were only in possesion  of the Targs after the doom, we know next to nothing about the blood but since those places were the ones the dragonlords  used to chill... It's likely that all have it.

Besides it's unlikely to be any Dance, Dany's dragons are too small. In the Dance, the smaller dragons, (the Strong's kids) were all over a decade. They will never be nothing like Sunfyre or Syrax, let alone Vhagar, Balerion, Meraxes, Silverwing or Vermithor.

Edited by frenin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a question that's on the table right now. But one should seriously consider the fact that Aegon was goaded into spurning both Daenerys and the dragons, and that this is clearly build up as something that's going to bite him in the ass. The chances that he gets a dragon after he refused to go to Meereen are not that high, although it is, of course, still possible (assuming the dragons ever make it to Westeros).

29 minutes ago, frenin said:

Besides it's unlikely to be any Dance, Dany's dragons are too small. In the Dance, the smaller dragons, (the Strong's kids) were all over a decade. They will never be nothing like Sunfyre or Syrax, let alone Vhagar, Balerion, Meraxes, Silverwing or Vermithor.

There will be a Second Dance of the Dragons, George has confirmed that long ago, although we don't yet know who will fight in that war or who is going to be the main enemy of Dany. But, sure, dragonriders won't play as prominent a role there as they did in the first Dance unless somebody pulls a couple of big dragons out of his or her ass (there are ways how George could include dragons that aren't Dany's, but so far there are very few hints that he might want to do something like that).

And, yeah, my best guess is that Drogon can, perhaps, reach the size of Sunfyre by the very end of the series if George has to grow him very fast, but it is more likely Dany's dragons will remain the size of Vermax, Arrax, and Tyraxes - not too small so they cannot be used against armies and people in some capacity, but not large enough to become real threats to castles and cities. None of Dany's dragons is ever going to melt stone, that's for sure.

Comparing Dany's dragons to historical ones doesn't really work since Drogon has always grown faster than the others, just as Aegon's dragons grew differently -  Meraxes died over a century before Vhagar yet she was larger than Vhagar at her death, Dreamfyre is older than Vermithor yet Vermithor was larger than Dreamfyre during the Dance, etc.

8 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The only possibility of this I see is a willing test.  Dany says he's fake, Aegon says I'm real.  Someone suggests having the Dragons prove it.  It would be interesting to see.  Rhaegal will obviously ultimately be Jons but that doesn't mean someone else can't ride him in the meantime, it just means that person would have to die while Rhaegal survived so Jon could take him later.

That kind of thing would only make sense if Dany had a spare dragon at hand during a confrontation with Aegon and if she had reason to believe that Aegon had no dragonlord blood - the first thing would be a strange plot convenience and the second a very strange idea on her part. After all, we can reasonably expect that both Rhaegal and Viserion are going to be claimed by their first riders while they are still in Slaver's Bay. If they were not they would, most likely, not accompany Dany and Drogon and the armada to Westeros. And if people like Tyrion or Ben or Victarion who do neither look Valyrian nor have exactly all that much Targaryen blood (if they have any of that at all) become dragonriders then Dany is never going to allow anyone to mount any of her dragons as part of some 'test'. Thus this is not likely going to happen for either Aegon or Jon Snow (unless we had a very weird scenario where she was compelled for some reason to allow this).

Not to mention the risk she would take by giving him the opportunity to claim one of her dragons. It would take away the one overwhelming advantage she has ... Aegon might be male and perhaps even Rhaegar's son, but he doesn't have a dragon.

As soon as Dany shows up that fact alone will bite him in the ass. Dragons are power on an all together different level than Valyrian looks and trinkets to prove your parentage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would Dany has a veto if one of her rebellious "teenagers" decides to fly away and has a rider? Or I assume that a decision who becomes a dragon rider is made by dragon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes of course, this should have been long understood (and was by some here) soon after GRRM dropped the first dance history. And Rhaegal will die or become useless as a weapon of war in the dance between Aegon and Dany. Come the Others Dany's dragons will all be dead, lost or useless due to human warring or betrayal. This is the pinnacle of one of the central themes of the series, human avarice will seemingly cause everyone's doom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/20/2020 at 12:04 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

There is a problem with this theory. Quentyn. Given the description in his POV when he tries to tame a dragon, it seems he actually tamed one of them, however the other one burned him.

Q didn't tame the dragons because they were already accustomed to humans.  They've been raised by humans. Humans are all they have known. Taming Daenerys Targaryen's dragons are not necessary.  Q got burned because some dumbass in his party decided to shoot his arrow at the dragons.  It was self-defense on the part of the dragon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If fAegon and Dany have their own Dance of the Dragons, which it sounds like they will, then he all but certainly must. The problem is, I really can't imagine how he'll get his hands on one, unless someone else steals a dragon, brings it to Westeros, and then dies, allowing fAegon to claim it. 

Spoiler

I personally believe that Dany will burn King's Landing while Aegon is in power, due to some of the details from season 8 of GOT, such as Harry Strickland randomly being there and "the bells' being very reminiscent of JonCon. If that's the case, then it could very easily come down to Dany being the only one who has a dragon, therefore allowing her to pulverize King's Landing. 

However, we also know from Dany's vision in ACOK that Westeros will eagerly accept Aegon as their new king (i.e. crowds cheering a mummer's dragon). It's hard to imagine that the Westerosi would choose Aegon over Dany if she has dragons and he doesn't. So I'm quite puzzled as to how this will all play out.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will FAegon tame a dragon?

I don't believe so. He had a chance to meet Daenerys but chose instead to proceed without her.  That will be his undoing.  The boy doesn't understand the power of the dragons.  He will end up facing the Lannisters without dragons and many will doubt who he is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

There will be a Second Dance of the Dragons, George has confirmed that long ago, although we don't yet know who will fight in that war or who is going to be the main enemy of Dany. But, sure, dragonriders won't play as prominent a role there as they did in the first Dance unless somebody pulls a couple of big dragons out of his or her ass (there are ways how George could include dragons that aren't Dany's, but so far there are very few hints that he might want to do something like that).

As in Targ against Targ, not so much tiny dragon against tiny dragon.

 

 

23 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

 And, yeah, my best guess is that Drogon can, perhaps, reach the size of Sunfyre by the very end of the series if George has to grow him very fast, but it is more likely Dany's dragons will remain the size of Vermax, Arrax, and Tyraxes - not too small so they cannot be used against armies and people in some capacity, but not large enough to become real threats to castles and cities. None of Dany's dragons is ever going to melt stone, that's for sure.

Martin would already be growing them too fast for them to reach Arrax, Vermax and Tyraxes size, Sunfyre seems incredibly unlikely without the wonders of atime skip.

 

 

23 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

 Comparing Dany's dragons to historical ones doesn't really work since Drogon has always grown faster than the others, just as Aegon's dragons grew differently -  Meraxes died over a century before Vhagar yet she was larger than Vhagar at her death, Dreamfyre is older than Vermithor yet Vermithor was larger than Dreamfyre during the Dance, etc.

The only dragon we know that its growing was incredibly fast was Vermithor, Meraxes was bigger than Vhagar during the  First Dornish war but here we knoe next to nothing of said dragons save that Balerion was with the Targs before the doom. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, frenin said:

As in Targ against Targ, not so much tiny dragon against tiny dragon.

That's not what you said. You talked about a Dance in general manner, not the specific manner of Targaryen vs. Targaryen.

Also, the crucial aspect of why the Second Dance is likely going to get that name might have less to do with dragons and more with there being at least one woman among the pretenders, allowing the man/men to dance a dance of fire and dead with her - just as Rhaenyra and Aegon II danced until they died.

46 minutes ago, frenin said:

Martin would already be growing them too fast for them to reach Arrax, Vermax and Tyraxes size, Sunfyre seems incredibly unlikely without the wonders of atime skip.

There is no basis for that since we have no clue how large any of those dragons were exactly. We have relative sizes claiming Vhagar was four times as large as Arrax and twice as large as Caraxes, but this doesn't tell us anything in detail. Especially since we also have no clue how large Vermax, Arrax, and Tyraxes were in comparison to each other. They could have been all roughly of the same size ... or not. The same is true for Sunfyre whose size in relation to the other dragons is also unclear.

We can assume that all of Dany's dragons are already as large or possibly even larger than Moondancer and we have no idea whether Drogon is already as large as, say, Vermax, or whether he is going to have that size when we meet him again in TWoW.

George himself said the dragons will grow as large as he wants them to be/the plot necessitates them to be. Dragons are magical creatures ... if George wanted it, then Drogon could reach the size of Balerion in a matter of days. I doubt he'll throw internal logic out of the window in that manner, but there are ways to come up with 'magical explanations' as to why and how Dany's dragons end up growing very fast to enormous sizes.

46 minutes ago, frenin said:

The only dragon we know that its growing was incredibly fast was Vermithor, Meraxes was bigger than Vhagar during the  First Dornish war but here we knoe next to nothing of said dragons save that Balerion was with the Targs before the doom. 

No, we do know that both Vhagar and Meraxes hatched on Dragonstone after the Targaryens left Valyria. Vhagar hatched in 52 BC and Meraxes' birth year is unknown. AGoT makes it clear that Meraxes skull is larger than Vhagar's skull despite the fact that Meraxes could at best have been about 120 years at her death whereas Vhagar died at the age of 181. The fact that Vhagar apparently had not yet outgrown the long-dead Meraxes died despite the fact that she lived about sixty years longer than Meraxes strongly indicates that dragons do not necessarily grow at the speed.

One can try to argue that the size of the skull doesn't tell us anything about the body, but people discussing dragons in the books seem to believe that it does.

How fast Vermithor grew we also don't really know, since we also don't know when exactly he and Silverwing hatched. Gyldayn makes it clear that it is a legend that Rhaena put those eggs into the cradles of her siblings, it is not a confirmed fact of history. Thus it is possible that Vermithor was already a couple of decades old when Jaehaerys claimed him in the 40s. The first moment he and Silverwing first appear on the pages of history is during King Aenys' funeral - but it is not clear at all whether Jaehaerys and Alysanne had already bonded with them at that time.

All that means is that age and passed time doesn't tell us anything about the sizes of dragons. To be sure, it makes sense to assume that very old dragons are usually much larger than young ones, but there seem to be instances were younger dragons grow to an enormous size much earlier than others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

but there are ways to come up with 'magical explanations' as to why and how Dany's dragons end up growing very fast to enormous sizes.

Time. It will take a long time to settle the issue of the slavers.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Time. It will take a long time to settle the issue of the slavers.  

Sure, another book, most likely. And then little more than a couple of months will have passed. I guess the dragons might double size in TWoW, perhaps triple it, but anything else would stretch things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...