Rhaego? Really?

[Back in Black-Snow]

I don't mean to derail this thread, but I will ask this. What makes people believe he (Bran) will never be able to father children? Seriously.

Maybe I/we should start another thread for this.

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, Texas Hold Em said:

Dany saw him burn in her vision.

What she saw is that her son was taken by fire. Like maester Aemon was taken by the Citadel, and Jon was taken by Night's Watch, or Arya was taken by the Faceless Men - to serve.

"Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo’s copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin."

Burning heart and fire pouring out of mouth - both are symbols of R'hllor, the Lord of Light, God of fire. Burning heart of Azor Ahai. Kiss of fire/kiss of life of R'hllor's Red Priests. That fire-magic with wich were revived Berric Dondarrion and Catelyn Stark.

In the vision from the House of the Undying Dany saw grown up Rhaego under banner of a fiery stallion - combination of R'hllor's and Dothraki symbols. Rhaego is the Stallion that mounts the world, and at the same time he is R'hllor's champion. So he's going to become R'hllor's crusader, a warrior-priest that will lead an army of horsemen.

ASOIAF is partially a parallel to the Book of Revelation, 19:

"

¹¹ I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. ¹² His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. ¹³ He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. ¹⁴ The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. ¹⁵ Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”^[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. ¹⁶ On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords."

Fire is R'hllor's weapon, in that Bible verse from above there's a sword coming out of mouth, same as fire coming out of Rhaego's mouth. Same as Rhaego in AGOT, that person ("second Jesus") after his birth was separated from his mother, and his mother escaped into wilderness from a Dragon who was chasing her. His mother was the Woman clothed in the sun; Dany, going into Drogo's funeral pyre, is a parallel to that. And a Dragon from whom she escaped into the Red Waste is Varys, who is a Blackfyre. Rhaego is Khal of khals and the great shepherd to whom all people of the world will be his herd (that's from the prophecy given by Dosh khaleen and explained later by Jorah), is also a reference to this second Jesus from the Book of Revelation.

1 hour ago, Texas Hold Em said:

Bringing Rhaego back to life would remove much of the lost for Dany. 

For 18 months she thought that her baby was dead, she mourned him. But even when she will be reunited with him, it won't just erase all her previous suffering, all those tears she cried, thinking that he was dead. And she was depraved of nursing her child. "She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast". She won't breastfead him, he's too old for that, and she doesn't have milk, her lactation is long over. Her baby is one and a half years old, she missed his first smile, his first step, his first word. He doesn't know her, he was raised by some other woman whom he calls mother. So even when they will be reunited, there are still things that are lost for her forever.

[The Fattest Leech]

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

Wow, a ceremonial funeral for books, Targaryen style. "Other great houses might choose to bury their dead in the dark earth or sink them in the cold green sea, but the Targaryens were the blood of the dragon, and their ends were writ in flame." A bit overdramatic, no?

Ok, I'll agree with you - I'm arrogant, and I'm a genius. We both won.

Interesting you use this piece of text to "prove" Rhaego is alive when this is exactly what happened to Rhaego when he died.

 

In general,

Rhaego had to die for narrative purposes, to give Dany something to grieve as part of her character building. Prophecy works in mysterious ways, and now it is shown that Dany+Drogon are the Stallion (Mare) who mounts the world. They always assumed a male, when they should have looked for a female.

[kissdbyfire]

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

Wow, a ceremonial funeral for books, Targaryen style. "Other great houses might choose to bury their dead in the dark earth or sink them in the cold green sea, but the Targaryens were the blood of the dragon, and their ends were writ in flame."

Nope, Free Folk style.

Quote

A bit overdramatic, no?

Not at all. If your ideas were to be proven right (they won’t) it would mean Martin is a terrible writer (he isn’t), because what you claim is textual support is anything but. It would turn ASoIaF into something similar to the abomination, where you get 180° turns just to surprise and shock people. 

Quote

Ok, I'll agree with you - I'm arrogant, and I'm a genius. We both won.

Not at all what I said. You misunderstood, but that seems to be your specialty.

 

[Megorova]

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Interesting you use this piece of text to "prove" Rhaego is alive when this is exactly what happened to Rhaego when he died.

Mirri said: "When I touched him, the flesh sloughed off the bone, and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of corruption."

According to her, the baby's flesh "melted". Though, what happened to his bones?

Dany didn't asked to see her baby's body, because she was made to believe that the body decomposed. They didn't gave her some child-skeleton to burn on Drogo's funeral pyre, because there was nothing left of him. That's what they made her to believe.

The baby's bones were not burned with Drogo: "When the fire died at last and the ground became cool enough to walk upon, Ser Jorah Mormont found her amidst the ashes, surrounded by blackened logs and bits of glowing ember and the burnt bones of man and woman and stallion." <- Drogo's bones, Mirri's bones, and bones of a stallion killed by Aggo in the beginning of that chapter.

"the flesh sloughed off the bone" - why didn't Dany burned her child's remnants on his father's funeral pyre? If what Mirri said was true, then there should be left little skeleton, but there wasn't. Because Rhaego isn't dead. Dothraki took him, and Mirri with Jorah made an agreament to lie to Dany about what happened to her child, otherwise she would have went after him, and Pono warned them all that if Dany will go after him, he will kill them all.

" “My son…Rhaego…where is he? I want him.” Her handmaid lowered her eyes. “The boy…he did not live, Khaleesi.” Her voice was a frightened whisper." - Jhiqui lied, and she was ashamed to lie.

"“Tell me how my child died.” “He never lived, my princess. The women say…” He faltered, and Dany saw how the flesh hung loose on him, and the way he limped when he moved. “Tell me. Tell me what the women say.” He turned his face away. His eyes were haunted. “They say the child was…” She waited, but Ser Jorah could not say it. His face grew dark with shame." - he was ashamed to lie to her. But he had to lie, because he was afraid that she will make him go after Pono, to take her child back, and then they all will die because of her.

Pono was Drogo's ko. According to Dothraki customs, he was supposed to take Dany to Vaes Dothrak, it was his duty. Instead he proclaimed himself a Khal, and left next morning after Rhaego's birth, and majority of Drogo's khalasar went with him. <- all that because Pono took Rhaego, because Rhaego is Drogo's son, and because Drogo for Pono was blood of his blood. Thus, now Rhaego is to Pono blood of his blood. And because Rhaego is not just some baby, not merely a Khal's son, but instead the Stallion that mounts the world, Khal of khals (he's a Khal, whose bloodriders/ko are khals, all of them), thus by being Rhaego's ko, Pono became a Khal in his own right. And thus isn't obliged to die with Drogo, or to oblige to rules by which he was binded when he was merely a ko.

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Rhaego had to die for narrative purposes, to give Dany something to grieve as part of her character building.

Rhaego, being revealed as alive, won't diminish Dany's accomplishments.

[The Fattest Leech]

10 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Mirri said: "When I touched him, the flesh sloughed off the bone, and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of corruption."

According to her, the baby's flesh "melted". Though, what happened to his bones?

They were buried? This side detail was never addressed because GRRM has already established Rhaego is dead and why he "needed" to be?

Or, since this was part of a larger wake the dragon (Daenerys) blood and fire ritual (that Dany is learning as she goes), and you say Rhaego's flesh "melted", then perhaps the clue lies in the ice dragon equivalent from the polar opposite side of the world:

• A Storm of Swords - Samwell I

  When he opened his eyes the Other's armor was running down its legs in rivulets as pale blue blood hissed and steamed around the black dragonglass dagger in its throat. It reached down with two bone-white hands to pull out the knife, but where its fingers touched the obsidian they smoked.

  Sam rolled onto his side, eyes wide as the Other shrank and puddled, dissolving away. In twenty heartbeats its flesh was gone, swirling away in a fine white mist. Beneath were bones like milkglass, pale and shiny, and they were melting too. Finally only the dragonglass dagger remained, wreathed in steam as if it were alive and sweating. Grenn bent to scoop it up and flung it down again at once. "Mother, that's cold."

  "Obsidian." Sam struggled to his knees. "Dragonglass, they call it. Dragonglass. Dragon glass." He giggled, and cried, and doubled over to heave his courage out onto the snow.

 

[Megorova]

4 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

and you say Rhaego's bones "melted"

No. According to Mirri, his flesh "melted", off the bones. So bones should have remained.

4 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

They were buried?

That's the thing - Dothraki don't bury their dead, they burn them on pyres. They are nomads, they are nearly always on the move, thus they don't have cemeteries or crypts, they burn their dead. If Rhaego really died, even if his flesh decomposed but the bones remained, in this case Drogo's people would have burned those remnants on Drogo's funeral pyre. And possibly killed for it two stallions, one for Drogo and one for Rhaego. But they did none of that. Thus Rhaego is alive.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

No. According to Mirri, his flesh "melted", off the bones. So bones should have remained.

That's the thing - Dothraki don't bury their dead, they burn them on pyres. They are nomads, they are nearly always on the move, thus they don't have cemeteries or crypts, they burn their dead. If Rhaego really died, even if his flesh decomposed but the bones remained, in this case Drogo's people would have burned those remnants on Drogo's funeral pyre. And possibly killed for it two stallions, one for Drogo and one for Rhaego. But they did none of that. Thus Rhaego is alive.

The thing is that Rhaego is no longer alive. He is gone physically, spiritually gone, and this plays a part in Danaerys' development. She is the last dragon.

[The Map Guy]

Ok I'm putting in some stock on Rhaego being alive ... like a 50% chance ... but not the way Megorova has it.
If anyone would to kidnap Rhaego, it would Quaithe and whatever other witches she is teamed up with.

Top Secret Theory suggests that GRRM needs a Rosemary's Baby plot and twist in ASOIAF.
I'll tried placing it with other characters, but thanks to Megorova, perhaps the Rosemary's Baby twist works better with Daenerys and Rhaego.

Rosemary's Baby -
Rosemary: Where's my baby?!?!?!

GoT during GRRM approved plot changes -
Daenerys: Where are my dragons?!?!?!?

GRRM approve plot changes in HBO has to mean something, even a secret meaning.

Plot Spoiler for Rosemary's Baby for anyone who don't want to watch the movie later (its on Netflix):
 

Spoiler

 

The baby is alive and stolen by a Satan-worshiping cult. The baby is monstrous, he has his father's eyes. Rosemary was drugged, raped, and impregnated by a scaled monster (Satan) in front of the cult earlier in the movie

Off-Topic:
I dunno why, but before Rosemary enters the room with the Cult, the painting at the 0:19 mark reminds me of the fire at Summerhall.

 

 

But I only give Rhaego being alive 50% odds, because it would require a large logistical scheme (like the one Megorova pointed out). I believe too many wild assumptions = less plausibility.

UNLESS everyone was in on it
Movie Spoiler:

Spoiler

....... which everyone in the movie were actually in on it.

And if Rhaego is alive, he won't be riding Rhaegal. Rhaegal is saved for someone even more demonic. Two year old Rhaego might even die before Daenerys reaches Westeros.

[Ser Leftwich]

Rhaego is an ex-parrot.

[Endymion I Targaryen]

I think Rhaego's death serves for Daenerys getting the dragons and us understanding the whole "If I look back I am lost". I believe Dany refuses to look back because she refuses to admit that she was responsible for her son's death. She prefers to blame it on MMD or Jorah. This is why I believe he remains dead.

[Megorova]

22 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

If your ideas were to be proven right (they won’t) it would mean Martin is a terrible writer (he isn’t), because what you claim is textual support is anything but. It would turn ASoIaF into something similar to the abomination, where you get 180° turns just to surprise and shock people. 

GRRM did wrote a lot of things that later he flipped 180°. For example:

- Dany was supposed to burn and die in Drogo's funeral pyre, instead she became the Mother of Dragons;

- it seemed that Renly is going to win in his battle against Stannis, instead he was killed by a shadow;

- it seemed that Stannis will win the Battle at Blackwater, even though Tyrion used wildfire against his troops, the KL's forces were on a verge of defeat, but then came Tywin with Tyrell and Lannister troops and won the battle;

- after Jaime's hand was cut off, he was supposed to die from sepsis, instead he was saved by Qubyrn;

- it seemed that Ned is going to go to The Wall, instead in the last moment Joffrey ordered to execute him;

- Sansa was supposed to marry with Joffrey, instead Margaery came;

- Bran was supposed to die after his fall, he didn't;

- the return of Bloodraven;

- the return of Berric Dondarrion;

- the return of Mance Raider as Rattleshirt;

- it seemed that Doran was going to win in his fight against the Mountain, instead in the last moment he got killed;

- the Mountain was poisoned and was supposed to die, instead he returned as Robert Strong;

- the Red Wedding, the Purple Wedding;

- etc., etc., etc.

Does writing all that make Martin a terrible writer? Or you think that all that was OK, and it's only Rhaego's return that is a bad writing?

Rhaego being alive, is not such a big turn over as the return of Catelyn Stark as Lady Stone Heart. The readers experienced from her own POV that she was killed. Nevertheless, now she again is a character in ASOIAF. But THAT you don't consider to be a bad writing? Or do you burn your books every time when in the plot happens something that you didn't saw coming?

22 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

what you claim is textual support is anything but.

Ok, I gathered what I found in the books, that supports my theory that Rhaego is alive:

AGOT, Dany VI: "Finally the crone opened her eye and lifted her arms. “I have seen his face, and heard the thunder of his hooves,” she proclaimed in a thin, wavery voice.

“The thunder of his hooves!” the others chorused.

“As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name.” "

AGOT, Dany X: "Over the carcass of the horse, they built a platform of hewn logs"

"And there came a second crack, loud and sharp as thunder, and the smoke stirred and whirled around her and the pyre shifted, the logs exploding as the fire touched their secret hearts. She heard the screams of frightened horses, and the voices of the Dothraki raised in shouts of fear and terror"

"When the fire died at last and the ground became cool enough to walk upon, Ser Jorah Mormont found her amidst the ashes, surrounded by blackened logs and bits of glowing ember and the burnt bones of man and woman and stallion. She was naked, covered with soot, her clothes turned to ash, her beautiful hair all crisped away…yet she was unhurt.

The cream-and-gold dragon was suckling at her left breast, the green-and-bronze at the right."

<- Viserion hatched first "She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking."

Rhaegal hatched second. Sound effects of each egg cracking is a hint about identity of three dragonriders. Rhaego is the Stallion that mounts the world, dosh khaleen heard thunder of his hooves, and Rhaegal's egg hatched with the sound of thunder, screams of horses, and the voices of Dothraki. 

"She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. The black beside his heart, under his arm. The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. The cream-and-gold down between his legs."

<- Where she placed each egg is a also a hint about identity of three dragonriders. First she placed Drogon's egg, near Drogo's heart - Dany became first dragonrider, because she was Drogo's heart, his moon and stars. Second was placed Rhaegal's egg, thus he will also be the second dragon that will find his rider. Around his egg Dany coiled Drogo's braid. He was undefeated Khal, and so will be his son Rhaego, who's going to be the Stallion and Rhaegal's rider. The placement of Viserion's egg is a hint that the third dragonrider will be one of Dany's three "mounts", one of her three husbands; ACOK, Dany IV "three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love" - Drogo to bed, Hizdahr to dread, and Jon to love. This is Jon, the last dragon that will be awakened from stone, the last lie to slay is that he is Ned Stark's bastard: "From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . ", "A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . . " - Viserion's egg hatched with the sound of shattering stone (stone beast, a dragon sleeping in stone. Jon).

ACOK, Dany IV: "A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.", AGOT, Dany IX: "Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo's copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash." - in both visions Rhaego was an adult, thus he was born alive and will live to adulthood.

AGOT, Dany VI: "“The stallion is the khal of khals promised in ancient prophecy, child. He will unite the Dothraki into a single khalasar and ride to the ends of the earth, or so it was promised. All the people of the world will be his herd.” "

<- This and this ->

AGOT, Dany VII: " "All men are one flock, or so we are taught," replied Mirri Maz Duur. "The Great Shepherd sent me to earth to heal his lambs, wherever I might find them.""

The banner of a fiery stallion (R'hllor + Dothraki), fire pouring out of his mouth (fire is R'hllor's weapon), burning heart (symbol of Azor Ahai), khal of khals (King of kings and Lord of lords), the Great Shepherd, a person who will unite all Dothraki and to whom all the people of the world will be his herd, like all men are one flock lead by the Great Shepherd; the Bleeding Star following which the three wisemen from the east came to the Mother <- all that are GRRM's parallels to Biblical Jesus.

Bleeding Star: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_Bethlehem

Burning heart: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Heart

Khal of khals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_Kings#Judaism_and_Christianity

Fire/weapon/sword coming out of his mouth:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+19&amp;version=NIV

"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True... The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations... On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: king of kings and lord of lords."

Both Jon and Rhaego are parallels to Jesus, though Jon is more a parallel to Agnus Dei, the Lamb of God, who was sacrificed, died and resurected; and Rhaego is a parallel to the Second Coming of Jesus, son of the Woman clothed in the sun.

"Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. ²⁰ But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. ²¹ The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. "

Thus, just because there was fire pouring out of Rhaego's mouth, and his heart burned thru his chest, it doesn't mean that he died. All that is just religious symbols and Biblical parallels. And there's a ton of them in ASOIAF.

Rhaego is a parallel to Jesus; Jon is Lamb of God; fAegon is Antichrist; Petyr Baelish is the False Prophet, with lamb's horns and dragon's voice (descendant of Aegon IV Targaryen and Falena Stokeworth, whose House's sigil is a lamb); Varys is a Dragon that was chasing Woman clothed in the sun, and gave great authority to the Beast; the Beast out of the sea, the one with many heads, is fAegon and Golden Company; the Scarlet Beast is Euron Greyjoy, and the Great Harlot is Cersei.

GRRM did wrote other stories with a lot of religious elements and symbolism in them, like -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuf_Voyaging#"Call_Him_Moses"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Way_of_Cross_and_Dragon

Even if you disregard all those similarities between the Bible and certain elements of ASOIAF as irrelevant, and just my interpretation, that can be wrong, the fact still stands - in AGOT, Dany IX, in her vision she saw adult Rhaego. And it wasn't one of those visions that the Undying described as the futures that will never be. THAT vision Dany had not in the House of the Undying, and thus it was not the future that will never happen, it was a prophetic vision. Dany, same as Daenys the Dreamer, Daeron the Drunken, and Daemon II Blackfyre, is able to see future. And what she saw is an adult Rhaego, and to become an adult he can't be dead. Thus - Rhaego is alive. And there is evidence and hints of that in the books.

ASOS: " “Your Grace,” he conceded, “the dragon has three heads, remember? You have wondered at that, ever since you heard it from the warlocks in the House of Dust. Well, here’s your meaning: Balerion, Meraxes, and Vhagar, ridden by Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya. The three-headed dragon of House Targaryen—three dragons, and three riders.”

“Yes,” said Dany, “but my brothers are dead.”

“Rhaenys and Visenya were Aegon’s wives as well as his sisters. You have no brothers, but you can take husbands"

" "If you were grown," she told Drogon, scratching him between the horns, "I'd fly you over the walls and melt that harpy down to slag." But it would be years before her dragons were large enough to ride. And when they are, who shall ride them? The dragon has three heads, but I have only one."

Dany VI: "The dragon has three heads. There are two men in the world who I can trust, if I can find them. I will not be alone then. We will be three against the world, like Aegon and his sisters."

Currently there are three people in ASOIAF with at least 50% of Targaryen blood - Dany (pureblooded Targ), Jon (who is half-Stark), and Rhaego (who is half-Dothraki and half-Targaryen).

The Big hint that GRRM gave is that the three-headed dragon is of House Targaryen - three Targaryen dragons, and three Targaryen riders. And fAegon is a Blackfyre, he has just a tiny bit of Targaryen blood, same as Brown Ben Plumm, Littlefinger, Bran, and others. Bloodraven and Shiera have a lot of Targaryen blood, though both of them were born prior Jaehaerys II, and the woodswitch's prophecy said that the Promised Prince will be descendant of Jaehaerys. Dany is Aerys' daughter, and both Jon and Rhaego are Aerys' grandsons. Thus the three of them is the three-headed dragon of House Targaryen. And GRRM provided readers with many hints about this outcome.

[szbszig]

On 3/20/2020 at 5:32 PM, Frey family reunion said:

My assumption is that Rhaego did die, but his spirit/soul was passed into one of the dragon eggs.  After all when a mystical old crone foretells that you will be the stallion that mounts the world, she's usually right.  It just sometimes takes some strange turns to make her right.

And what stallion would be better suited to mount the world than a dragon?

That sounds very plausible, but then again, what is the purpose of Rhaego here? He was a newborn (or unborn) baby without true will or consciousness. How does his soul affect the behaviour of the dragon it was transferred to? How will this dragon differ from any ordinary dragon, e. g. from a wild one born in nature? And even if this soul transfer is some kind of second lifing ritual, we are told by Varamyr that during a second life the human consciusness always fades away slowly.

[punzerknacker]

Not a fan of the idea that Dany would need her son to "come back from the dead" to unite the Dothraki behind her … I always felt that her storyline was supposed to send the message that a woman can also be the "chosen one", that the stallion who mounts the world is not a stallion and the prince that was promised is not a prince … All of this would be undermined if her son did turn out to be that stallion, in my opinion it would send the message that she as a woman was not "enough" and I don't see GRRM going for that message, propping a female character up as the supposed heroine and then going "gotcha!"

[Davjos]

I mean I completely disagree with Rhaego being alive but you have to give Megorova some credit. There is no proof in the text that Rhaego’s body was burned or buried. That however, is also no proof at all he survived. We witness dany feel him die IIRC. 

[The Lord of the Crossing]

20 hours ago, punzerknacker said:

Not a fan of the idea that Dany would need her son to "come back from the dead" to unite the Dothraki behind her … I always felt that her storyline was supposed to send the message that a woman can also be the "chosen one", that the stallion who mounts the world is not a stallion and the prince that was promised is not a prince … All of this would be undermined if her son did turn out to be that stallion, in my opinion it would send the message that she as a woman was not "enough" and I don't see GRRM going for that message, propping a female character up as the supposed heroine and then going "gotcha!"

Agree

[The Green Bard]

On 3/22/2020 at 10:08 PM, The Map Guy said:

Ok I'm putting in some stock on Rhaego being alive ... like a 50% chance

I don't grant near that high a probability, but I am willing to grant a very small possibility to it simply because there was no body presented to us.  As someone said earlier in the chat, the abandonment of the five-year gap would yield very little narrative purpose to Rheago in the story.  It's possible that he is slipped in somewhere in the Epilogue of ADoS or something, maybe as a young boy in the Dothraki Sea, finding an egg Drogon laid or something.  Beyond that, a toddler really is useless and a burden to the story.  

[The Map Guy]

9 hours ago, The Green Bard said:

Beyond that, a toddler really is useless and a burden to the story.

I agree, Rhaego is certainly not going to be a hero or conqueror of some sort.

UNLESS ... Rhaego is used as a hostage against Daenerys to get her to do what the witches want. And the witches want her dragons!

Perhaps the witches would raise Rhaego up as a future dragonbinder. (I say "witches" to discount any Dothraki involvement in this scheme)

Also, aside from being similar to the Rosemary's Baby plot, it would also be similar to the Kill Bill plot too ... which I think GRRM is unafraid to borrow a little from Tarantino for Daenerys' plot.

I bump the odds 50% to now 60% that Rhaego is alive! (but will die by ADOS)

[The Green Bard]

23 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

On 3/23/2020 at 4:09 PM, punzerknacker said:

Not a fan of the idea that Dany would need her son to "come back from the dead" to unite the Dothraki behind her … I always felt that her storyline was supposed to send the message that a woman can also be the "chosen one", that the stallion who mounts the world is not a stallion and the prince that was promised is not a prince … All of this would be undermined if her son did turn out to be that stallion, in my opinion it would send the message that she as a woman was not "enough" and I don't see GRRM going for that message, propping a female character up as the supposed heroine and then going "gotcha!"

Agree

I agree as well.  One other thing that potentially corroborates the story of the babe being deformed is the other deformed Targaryen children that we learn about in other stories such as Fire and Blood.  Still, the fact that the body was never presented to us will always leave doubt on all of this. 

[The Green Bard]

13 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

Rhaego is used as a hostage

Yes, even while writing that I knew this was the one caveat, so props for seizing on it.  However, I agree with @punzerknacker that Dany's agency as a female who creates her own power base would be narratively damaged by her son reappearing, so I don't put the probability anywhere near yours.