NFL 2020: Please Don't Be Fetch

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

There are people, just WALKING AROUND AMONG US, who looked at Lamarr Jackson and saw something to be 'fixed'. 

Look Jace, I've just been killing time while whale hunting, and I think I might have just caught my hawty. One day it might be you. 
 

[Nictarion]

3 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

What a delusion you live under. Tell me, is the Earth round in your fantasy land?

That team Andy was carried by? Gone, long gone. The roster the team has now was so bad that it got Andy run out of town as soon as Mike Brown figures out how not to pay him, or worse they're going to make him stay because nobody will give up a pick.

The Bengals were worse than a team trying to lose. There's no secret reservoir of talent hitherto unplumbed on the Bengals. They have a decent RB, an abysmal line, a rookie QB, and the biggest WR bust since Radius Heyward-Bey. A.J. Green is also running out the string at 31 years old, so I guess there's that.

To even cite turnarounds by the 49ers is on-its-face ridiculous. You have to know that. The 49ers have like the best playcaller in football! Same with KC, they ALSO have like the best playcaller in football. They're not remotely comparable to the Bengals, not an iota! And you're acting like the Tiger Cats are one piece away. They haven't been a .500 team in half a decade! Patrick Mahomes wasn't even a draft concept the last time Cincy was more than dogshit.

I mean it's one thing to believe in your team's fortunes but the 49ers and Chiefs have two of football's greatest minds running the show. Cincy has Jared Goff's lotion warmer making $7.25 an hour on a twenty year contract. Keep Andy Reid's name out your sky chilli mouth. 

 

Andy Reid never won a goddamn thing until Mahomes got there. He was basically the offensive Marvin Lewis. Also, I never said the Bengals were one piece away. I clearly stated they need a few more pieces on the OL. The best OT from last years draft is a good start though.

One of the biggest problems the Bengals have had under Mike Brown was always been his refusal to pay outside players in FA. Well, he just went out and spent 130m dollars. And not on scrubs either. DJ Reader is one of the best NT’s in the league. Despite Ty’s sour grapes, the DB’s we got from Minnesota were starters on a really good defense. Von Bell was a great pickup from the Saints. Trust me, I get being critical of the Bengals and Mike Brown, but whether it’s his daughter, or he’s just decided to change up the way they do things, and make a run before he dies, it is not business as usual in Cincinnati right now. 

But it’s alright. The Colts have a 40 year old QB who leads the league in most punchable face, so I can see why you’re irritable when talking football. And don’t even get me started on Ty’s Vikes and that Cousins contract...

[Nictarion]

23 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You need a 

Okay, I'm being a bit mean.

Both got to play with talent. But when you watched Tua throw the ball, you saw something unique. Just sayin'

Yeah, it comes from the left side...

[Nictarion]

14 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

There are people, just WALKING AROUND AMONG US, who looked at Lamarr Jackson and saw something to be 'fixed'. 

Lamar is a stud. Let’s see if his game is sustainable...

[Jace, Extat]

10 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Andy Reid never won a goddamn thing until Mahomes got there. He was basically the offensive Marvin Lewis. Also, I never said the Bengals were one piece away. I clearly stated they need a few more pieces on the OL. The best OT from last years draft is a good start though.

One of the biggest problems the Bengals have had under Mike Brown was always been his refusal to pay outside players in FA. Well, he just went out and spent 130m dollars. And not on scrubs either. DJ Reader is one of the best NT’s in the league. Despite Ty’s sour grapes, the DB’s we got from Minnesota were starters on a really good defense. Von Bell was a great pickup from the Saints. Trust me, I get being critical of the Bengals and Mike Brown, but whether it’s his daughter, or he’s just decided to change up the way they do things, and make a run before he dies, it is not business as usual in Cincinnati right now. 

But it’s alright. The Colts have a 40 year old QB who leads the league in most punchable face, so I can see why you’re irritable when talking football. And don’t even get me started on Ty’s Vikes and that Cousins contract...

Well returned.

I think the Bengals had to spend money to meet the cap floor, so this might not be indicitive of future practices. Especially if A.J. walks next year and they want to get that 3rd round compensatory pick locked down by not spending any premier $$, but we shall see.

7 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Lamar is a stud. Let’s see if his game is sustainable...

What does that even mean? Was Andrew Luck's game sustainable? Thank fucking Christ Kirk Cousins' game is so sustainable right? I'll take transcendence today over deliberately uninspired choices in the name of building a dynasty. Of which there have been exactly 1 in the last 20 years.

[Jace, Extat]

I seriously can't even believe people still think that. You see magic made flesh and complain that it might not last. What a poor and wanting people we must be, to breed such contempt for life's distillation of elegance. Sublime notes of movement singing in chorus to the betterment of all who witnessed. And still you beg to differ?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

53 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Well returned.

I think the Bengals had to spend money to meet the cap floor, so this might not be indicitive of future practices. Especially if A.J. walks next year and they want to get that 3rd round compensatory pick locked down by not spending any premier $$, but we shall see.

What does that even mean? Was Andrew Luck's game sustainable? Thank fucking Christ Kirk Cousins' game is so sustainable right? I'll take transcendence today over deliberately uninspired choices in the name of building a dynasty. Of which there have been exactly 1 in the last 20 years.

I snorted a bit.

[l2 0 5 5]

Gonna agree with Nic on taking Burrow. No way you pass on him. You can trade back and stock picks all you want but the players you get with them don't mean a damn if you don't have a QB. I'm sure Mike Brown also wants butts in seats and drafting Burrow will obviously help with that. That team and fans need an injection of life. Can Tua do that? Sure, but who's to say the picks you accumulate with trading back are gonna be any good? They might be a bust. You just don't know. In this scenario I think you make the common sense move and don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. The Bengals need a QB, so take the guy that just had the most dominant season ever in CFB.

You can roll your eyes at an obligatory Steelers reference, but once upon a time we passed on Dan Marino whom was a Pittsburgher, went to Pitt, and we had a chance to draft him, and didn't. He would've been the obvious successor to Bradshaw, and probably added another couple Lombardi's to the trophy case. The point? Don't get cute, make the obvious choice here, and draft Burrow. 

[Nictarion]

1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Well returned.

I think the Bengals had to spend money to meet the cap floor, so this might not be indicitive of future practices. Especially if A.J. walks next year and they want to get that 3rd round compensatory pick locked down by not spending any premier $$, but we shall see.

What does that even mean? Was Andrew Luck's game sustainable? Thank fucking Christ Kirk Cousins' game is so sustainable right? I'll take transcendence today over deliberately uninspired choices in the name of building a dynasty. Of which there have been exactly 1 in the last 20 years.

It means NFL history is full of QB’s that played that type of style, whose bodies ended up breaking down on them from all the punishment. When your QB leads the team in rushing that takes a toll. Just look at Cam. 

[Jace, Extat]

5 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

It means NFL history is full of QB’s that played that type of style, whose bodies ended up breaking down on them from all the punishment. When your QB leads the team in rushing that takes a toll. Just look at Cam. 

Would you rather have Mitch Trubisky than Cam? Andy Dalton? Imagine Cam on some of those Marvin Lewis teams...

[Nictarion]

4 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Would you rather have Mitch Trubisky than Cam? Andy Dalton? Imagine Cam on some of those Marvin Lewis teams...

Now you’re just being silly.

I'd take Lamar in heartbeat over most of the QB’s in the league right now (not named Mahomes, Wilson, or Watson). Doesn’t mean it’s not a legitimate concern when a QB runs that much. 

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, Nictarion said:

Now you’re just being silly.

I'd take Lamar in heartbeat over most of the QB’s in the league right now (not named Mahomes, Wilson, or Watson). Doesn’t mean it’s not a legitimate concern when a QB runs that much. 

Hasn't been hurt yet. And he has that slippery quality where he never seems to take a defender's best shot. I choose to believe.

[Nictarion]

2 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Hasn't been hurt yet. And he has that slippery quality where he never seems to take a defender's best shot. I choose to believe.

Yeah, I hear you. Right now his main concern should be figuring out how to stop shitting the bed in the playoffs...

[Jace, Extat]

6 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Yeah, I hear you. Right now his main concern should be figuring out how to stop shitting the bed in the playoffs...

That's beneath you. The list of QB's who have lost in the playoffs is long.

[DMC]

12 hours ago, Kalbear said:

This is so amazingly bad of a take I had to read twice to make sure that it wasnt stego making it. 

While it isnt a guarantee, three top picks are not equivalent to a good or great QB at a rookie contract for 4 years. There is probably no set of positions that are worth that. Certainly not on offense. And this is a team without a QB right now. 

Now I guess you could say that maybe burrow is worth the same as Tua+picks or Herbert + picks (fyi, I think herbert will be a bust), but Burrow is probably just better, and is certainly more dependable. 

Yeah, this is basically what I was gonna say when reading this.  If you can trade with Miami, get a boatload of picks, and still get Tua?  Sure, that's probably the wisest deal.  BUT, that's if you're confident in Tua's health - which is a dicey proposition in regular times, but especially now when you don't really have access to the information you'd want.

Other than that, you take Burrow and don't look back.  No reason to get too cutesy about it. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yeah, this is basically what I was gonna say when reading this.  If you can trade with Miami, get a boatload of picks, and still get Tua?  Sure, that's probably the wisest deal.  BUT, that's if you're confident in Tua's health - which is a dicey proposition in regular times, but especially now when you don't really have access to the information you'd want.

Other than that, you take Burrow and don't look back.  No reason to get too cutesy about it. 

Wouldn't the flip side be you don't actually have to trade up to get him? I was pretty clearly all in on the kid before he got hurt. I'd gamble on trading back and getting him plus some picks, personally, especially if you need a lot. 

That's not a knock against Burrow. I just don't see him as someone you can't pass on, and if you can get a king's random, I think history says take it, especially when the real prize is in the next draft and god knows how the draft will work next year absent a season. 

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Wouldn't the flip side be you don't actually have to trade up to get him?

I agree.  I don't see why Miami would give a huge haul of picks for Burrow if they're confident Tua will drop to them.  Which makes this whole discussion pointless.

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's not a knock against Burrow. I just don't see him as someone you can't pass on, and if you can get a king's random, I think history says take it, especially when the real prize is in the next draft and god knows how the draft will work next year absent a season.

When you have the #1 pick and there's a potential franchise quarterback available - and you have a glaring hole at quarterback - it's generally wise to take the quarterback.  Waiting until next year doesn't work in the NFL.  NBA?  Sure.  But not when you're looking to secure a young cheap quarterback.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

I agree.  I don't see why Miami would give a huge haul of picks for Burrow if they're confident Tua will drop to them.  Which makes this whole discussion pointless.

No. If you can trade back to get him, and pick up a few top 50 picks, including two firsts, yeah, you consider giving up the rights to Burrow to get Tua. I'm talking about the Bengals trade prospects, not Miami's. No way I'd make a move if I was them, given the sheer amount of picks and the uncertainty at the position. That's why,  if I was the Bengals, I'd shop the pick just to see what could be had. 
 

Quote

When you have the #1 pick and there's a potential franchise quarterback available - and you have a glaring hole at quarterback - it's generally wise to take the quarterback.  Waiting until next year doesn't work in the NFL.  NBA?  Sure.  But not when you're looking to secure a young cheap quarterback.

My point, albeit made long ago, is that if you really think Burrow is that guy, take him. If you're unsure, in a year with a lot of QBs with questions and some thirsty teams, see what they might give up. I like Burrow, but I don't love him. He's not a Luck like prospect to me.

And Trevor is even more valuable than Luck in my eyes. Not sure how the Bengals could A to Z that one, but dumping talent for future picks would work towards that end, or they could just get one of the other guys if they traded out while staying high in the draft.

[Nictarion]

12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Wouldn't the flip side be you don't actually have to trade up to get him? I was pretty clearly all in on the kid before he got hurt. I'd gamble on trading back and getting him plus some picks, personally, especially if you need a lot. 

That's not a knock against Burrow. I just don't see him as someone you can't pass on, and if you can get a king's random, I think history says take it, especially when the real prize is in the next draft and god knows how the draft will work next year absent a season. 

Burrow completely schooled the “real prize” in the championship game. Trevor played like ass.

Burrow: 

Completed 63.3% of his passes, threw for 463 yds 5 TD (ran for another) and had 0 INT

Lawrence:

Only completed 48.6% of his passes, threw for a measly 237 yds and 0 TD

Let’s see how Trevor bounces back after facing adversity for the first time in his young career. And outside of Joe Flacco and Nick Foles can you name many 6”6+ QB’s that have had a lot of success at the NFL level? Not saying he won’t, but for whatever reason a lot of the really big guys don’t. 

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's why,  if I was the Bengals, I'd shop the pick just to see what could be had. 

Right, and I'm saying it's unlikely you could get the haul you're envisioning plus Tua (I don't think any the other QBs in this draft are worth a tradedown).  And even if it was possible, it's still dependent on the Bengals being confident that Tua can stay healthy - which is quite the leap of faith right now.

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I like Burrow, but I don't love him. He's not a Luck like prospect to me.

He's undoubtedly the most reliable prospect with by far the highest upside other than Tua.  And he's without the latter's injury risks.  I wouldn't rank Burrow at Luck's level, but he's close.

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And Trevor is even more valuable than Luck in my eyes.

That's irrelevant.  Waiting a year for Trevor when you have the opportunity and dire need for a young cheap franchise quarterback would be criminal negligence for any GM.  There's far too much uncertainty there.