NFL 2020: Please Don't Be Fetch

[Nictarion]

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Even if we want to assume that LSU's receivers were butt-ass open (they weren't) and he had the best offensive talent around him in history (he didn't), here's the thing.

Burrow threw for more TDs and had a higher rating% than ANYONE EVER HAS. And he did it in the SEC, and then went and destroyed Clemson as well. He also had a 76% completion rating, which is an absurd rating for anyone to have, ever, unless you're playing nothing but pansies week in and out. That he did all of this while only throwing 6 INTs, not taking a lot of sacks and not fumbling much at all is even more insane.

Now, the one thing I WOULD be worried about is that it's exactly one season. That is scary, and there have been plenty of previous QBs with great single seasons and not a lot else, and they ended up busting. At the same time, none of them had remotely the same kind of performance Burrow did. Compare to a previous LSU QB with that one-hit wonder kind of thing - JaMarcus - and it's night and day. He had great YPA, but very shitty accuracy, shitty TD:INT, and had never shown that level otherwise. That's not the case with Burrow, and in general accuracy is the best overall predictor of success in the NFL. 

I happen to think that Tua could have been amazing, but his injury history is a real problem and there are signs that he hasn't recovered. That is far too risky to make a bet when you have someone like Burrow out there. 

Burrow wasn’t bad in 2018. Won 10 games and had over a 3:1 TD/INT ratio. He was just somewhat limited in the system LSU was running. But like I mentioned earlier, he beat #8 UCF in the Fiesta Bowl with a big game. 

As far as Jamarcus Russell, he was his own worst enemy. Didn’t work hard, wasn’t in shape, etc. From all accounts Burrow is an extremely hard worker. He’s the son of a coach, and lives and breathes football. 

[Nictarion]

12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Talk to the resident Bengal cubs then. Maybe they've spent too much time with Carole. 

 

Listen Bjorn Ironside...stop associating us with those scumbags! 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

56 minutes ago, Mexal said:

At end of the day, the right move for the Bengals is to take Burrow. He may fail or he may be mediocre. But you have to take a shot. Teams don't get better without a QB and Andy Dalton is not the future. You don't get in this position often, unless you're the Browns, so you take your shot when you're there. No amount of first round picks will replace a top QB on a rookie contract so you have to try. Also, like Kal, I think Herbert will be a bust. The guy is horrendous under pressure and can't create off script, which seems like a pre-requisite for success in this league right now if you're under the age of 39.

Forgot to include this part.

Look, I'm not saying you're not making fair points. I don't think Burrow is trash, by any means. And if you think he's your QB for the next decade, take him. I just don't get the idea that there's no way you'd move out of the pick. He isn't some generational talent everyone was chasing. He was extremely impressive for a season in the hardest conference, and he beat down the two top programs in the nation. He's talented.

That said, he isn't someone who was seen as a special talent, pre-season. I think he was projected as a 4th or 5th round. But he balled out. Just saying that's not the guy you refuse to trade.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Burrow wasn’t bad in 2018. Won 10 games and had over a 3:1 TD/INT ratio. He was just somewhat limited in the system LSU was running. But like I mentioned earlier, he beat #8 UCF in the Fiesta Bowl with a big game. 

As far as Jamarcus Russell, he was his own worst enemy. Didn’t work hard, wasn’t in shape, etc. From all accounts Burrow is an extremely hard worker. He’s the son of a coach, and lives and breathes football. 

Burrow isn't Russel. Russel was viewed as the clear talent in the class, but a lot of people were seeing red with him. Any they were right. 
 

15 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Listen Bjorn Ironside...stop associating us with those scumbags! 

I think I only watched one episode of that show. 

And you're so getting fed to a tiger. 

Nobody blame Jace, the Sweet and Noble. I mean, talk about the picture of innocence. She quacks at ducks for fucks sake! Even @Fragile Bird approves of her behavior, and she's an old fogey church lady! 

[Mexal]

30 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Burrow isn't Russel. Russel was viewed as the clear talent in the class, but a lot of people were seeing red with him. Any they were right. 

That draft was terrible and Russell survived because he could throw 70 yards from his knees.

End of day, if someone wants to spend 3-4 picks to get Burrow, there is clearly something there. Bengals need a QB and they have the opportunity to draft the best one available in this draft who happened to have the best college season ever. Tua might have a great career but the risk is significantly higher and Herbert is going to bust. They're doing the right thing and giving some hope to the fans. I'm down.

[Nictarion]

Nvm...pointless 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

15 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Nvm...pointless 

Tease. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, Mexal said:

That draft was terrible and Russell survived because he could throw 70 yards from his knees.

End of day, if someone wants to spend 3-4 picks to get Burrow, there is clearly something there. Bengals a need a QB and they have the opportunity to draft the best one available in this draft who happened to have the best college season ever. Tua might have a great career but the risk is significantly higher and Herbert is going to bust. They're doing the right thing and giving some hope to the fans. I'm down.

Why is Herbert so divisive? He seems like a better version of Allen, and he as been better than expected. Low bar, but still.  

[Mexal]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Why is Herbert so divisive? He seems like a better version of Allen, and he as been better than expected. Low bar, but still.  

I think he's a bit different than Allen, at least in terms of his athleticism. My biggest issue is he's a one read QB and lacks the ability to succeed under pressure at this time. He might improve that, but as a fan who has watched a lot of QBs who drop their eyes with guys around them and can't get them back up, would rather not have another QB like that again. He might have prototypical size/arm strength but his processing speed is a full second slower than Burrow and his pocket feel is non-existent in comparison. Just have a hard time seeing him succeed in the NFL unless he has a stellar OL.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I think he's a bit different than Allen, at least in terms of his athleticism. My biggest issue is he's a one read QB and lacks the ability to succeed under pressure at this time. He might improve that, but as a fan who has watched a lot of QBs who drop their eyes with guys around them and can't get them back up, would rather not have another QB like that again. He might have prototypical size/arm strength but his processing speed is a full second slower than Burrow and his pocket feel is non-existent in comparison. Just have a hard time seeing him succeed in the NFL unless he has a stellar OL.

So, defense that he isn't a Josh Allen type?

Burrow is a lot better. Not sure I was ever trying to suggest otherwise. 

[Mexal]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

So, defense that he isn't a Josh Allen type?

Burrow is a lot better. Not sure I was ever trying to suggest otherwise. 

I always thought if Allen as more of an athlete while Herbert was more of a passer. Allen couldn't hit the broad side of a barn but was always an athlete who could make something happen whereas Herbert isn't totally inaccurate (though he does throw 20% screens) but I don't see him as much a creator with his legs.

My comparison to Burrow was more about skills I thought were necessary to be successful that aren't arm strength and that Herbert lacked them. That's all.

[Nictarion]

This is a pretty good take on Herbert:

 

[DMC]

56 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Nobody blame Jace, the Sweet and Noble. I mean, talk about the picture of innocence. She quacks at ducks for fucks sake! Even @Fragile Bird approves of her behavior, and she's an old fogey church lady! 

Jace is much more likeable than you.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, Mexal said:

I always thought if Allen as more of an athlete while Herbert was more of a passer. Allen couldn't hit the broad side of a barn but was always an athlete who could make something happen whereas Herbert isn't totally inaccurate (though he does throw 20% screens) but I don't see him as much a creator with his legs.

My comparison to Burrow was more about skills I thought were necessary to be successful that aren't arm strength and that Herbert lacked them. That's all.

Herbert actually ran a slightly faster 40, and I think his arm is much better. Plus he's not as much of a project, but he still has flaws, and I don't love super tall QBs from the jump. 

There's no universe in which I'd take him over Burrow or Tua. I guess I was just arguing if you could get either of the latter plus 3-4 top 50 picks between this year and next, hey think about it.
 

7 minutes ago, DMC said:

Jace is much more likeable than you.

Neither you nor @Jace, Basilissa really think that.

[Nictarion]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Herbert actually ran a slightly faster 40, and I think his arm is much better. Plus he's not as much of a project, but he still has flaws, and I don't love super tall QBs from the jump. 

Yet you have a man crush on Lawrence...

[Mexal]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Herbert actually ran a slightly faster 40, and I think his arm is much better. Plus he's not as much of a project, but he still has flaws, and I don't love super tall QBs from the jump. 

There's no universe in which I'd take him over Burrow or Tua. I guess I was just arguing if you could get either of the latter plus 3-4 top 50 picks between this year and next, hey think about it.

I think this is fair with Tua... wouldn't want to do that with Herbert. I just wish Tua didn't get hurt again; I do really like his play.

[Nictarion]

1 minute ago, Mexal said:

I think this is fair with Tua... wouldn't want to do that with Herbert. I just wish Tua didn't get hurt again; I do really like his play.

There’s certainly a lot to like with Tua. That said, I am looking forward to having a 6’4 QB. How many fucking balls has Dalton had batted down at the line over the years? 

[Mexal]

2 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

There’s certainly a lot to like with Tua. That said, I am looking forward to having a 6’4 QB. How many fucking balls has Dalton had batted down at the line over the years? 

Part of that is Dalton is terrible at subtle movement within the pocket. Wilson and Brees don't have a ton of balls batted down cause they're good at finding throwing lanes. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

This is a pretty good take on Herbert:

 

Interesting video. I do think you can clean a lot of the flaws up, but if the inability to read pre and post snap defenses is accurate, I'd worry. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Yet you have a man crush on Lawrence...

Lol. He had the most impressive HS grade I've seen, won the National Championship as a freshman, and made it back as a sophomore. He's lost one game man. He can make every throw, is mobile, processes information quickly and is a good kid. He's everything you want man.

Won't lie though, when I saw his height coming out of HS I was a bit worried.