Devs thread (discussion of all episodes available)

[Vaughn]

I've watched the first three available on Hulu and really enjoyed them. Well, maybe not enjoyed per se but appreciated what I was watching. The disquieting score at certain points definitely reminded me of how I found 'Annihilation' to be both engrossing and unsettling. The burning video also recalled the end of the Portman vs. alien scene in that movie as well. 

The cast is all good but Offerman is so perfect as an amoral tech genius that it's a wonder I've never seen in any kind of serious role before. Zack Grenier is also great but funny to see him as a physically threatening character after enjoying him for years as a weasel on 'the Good Wife'. 

Future thoughts: 

Jamie must be dead, right? Bummer. 

Will Lily break the tram lines and live or is the operating theory of this show that our fates are sealed? 

The concept of communication time travel but not physical time travel reminds me a bit of the concept of stubs in William Gibson's last two books. (Speaking of those books, we are for sure in the Jackpot now, which is a bummer.) 

This is just stupid Star Wars fan type thinking on my part, but I would love a throwaway cameo of Alicia Vikander in a street scene to show this is in the 'Ex Machina' universe. 

[Vaughn]

Jamie not dead, although it wasn't entirely clear why. If they've already killed one guy, why not another? I guess it would be much harder to fake evidence off campus vs on campus. Anyways, I wouldn't fuck with Kenton. 

 

This episode didn't grab me as much as the first three but still good stuff. 

[ithanos]

Quite enjoying this. Offerman and Grenier are great. The music and shot selection set an appropriate mood. Very much like Garland's other directorial works to date. 

I thought after the first episode that...

Spoiler

the code was discovered evidence that we're in a simulation.

but that didn't seem to be the case judging from subsequent episodes. It's something different.

With the latest episode...

Spoiler

I can see hubris affecting Katie, with her use of Lyndon's fidelity measure (whom I totally didn't realise was played by a woman). So if Katie is spying into the future with this measure then she's only seeing a possible/probable future, leaving our protagonists an out to do the unpredictable.  

 

 

[Vaughn]

Right but in episode 2 (I think), where it's revealed that the vague figure they keep watching is [edit] Lily, not Jamie, they also state that she dies in every variation or something. So it seems they can explore multiple futures right? But then... how do they figure out what impacts the future given the infinite amount of actions available? Which butterfly wings cause the hurricane? 

 

To be clear, I have no expectations that this will all be tidily explained nor do I care but I like thinking about it. 

[ithanos]

The description on the Hulu site for episode 6 suggests we'll find out more about the Dev sytem. 

I'm not sold yet on Lily, she hasn't really been endearing from my perspective - but am definitely invested in the fates of Jamie and the homeless dude. Also, I'm a little creeped out at the giant monument of Forests' daughter in the Amaya grounds.   

Considering the production, credit should be given to Rob Hardy for cinematography. This is his third collaboration with Garland; Ex Machina and Annihilation being the other two.   

[Ramsay B.]

Well episode 6 was an info dump. We knew basically most of it but it did add some clarity.

I’m interested to see where the Lyndon storyline ends up. He was obviously gonna return at some point but I’m wondering what for? Maybe to sow division between Katie and Forest? Katie did seem upset when Forest abruptly fired Lyndon, and she must obviously have doubts about certain things knowing Forest is being led by pure emotions... and literally denying reality, possibly.

Kenton is gonna mess up some plans now too. I figure Forest knows all about it though. I’m excited to see what happens in the end.

8 hours ago, ithanos said:

Considering the production, credit should be given to Rob Hardy for cinematography. This is his third collaboration with Garland; Ex Machina and Annihilation being the other two.   

I hope they keep working together. This, along with the other two, look great. Garland has style.

[Martini Sigil]

I'm liking this show... but its slow as hell... maybe I'm missing something

[ithanos]

11 hours ago, Ramsay B. said:

Well episode 6 was an info dump. We knew basically most of it but it did add some clarity.

Yeah too much of an info dump for mine. My guess is the Devs system can't project beyond when it ceases to exist. So either it gets destroyed or dismantled, and then we can have Stewart and Lyndon resurrect the pieces for round two.
 

[Vaughn]

Loved Stewart's van life. Would follow on Insta.

 

Is Devs somehow linked to Lily's existence, like this is a dream of hers or something? I don't think that's it. 

Is Devs no longer working beyond 21 hours due to the end of the world because Kate and Forest accidentally unraveled it? 

I'm guessing its more like a branch event where the reality that Devs exists in is replaced with a different future? Or does Devs project all potential futures? 

[.H.]

10 hours ago, Vaughn said:

I'm guessing its more like a branch event where the reality that Devs exists in is replaced with a different future? Or does Devs project all potential futures? 

Wasn't it already said, in the show, that Lily is supposed to die?  I'd guess that the branch event is her not dying, perhaps because she makes a choice that wasn't "deterministically" predicted.  I don't think the Devs System can predict "all potential futures" it only predicts one, or numerous ones, but not all.  Perhaps it rates them on a sort of Bayesian basis, from most likely to least and then synthesizes something based on what most probably happens?  One could probably adjust the parameters to see different outcomes with different weighting.   I think this is why (Nick Offerman's character, I can't recall anyone's name on the show) he is so upset about the use of Many Worlds, because what he is "getting" is not his daughter, but a probabilistic representation of her.

My guess though is that with any weighting, Lily ends up dead, according to the System.  What I'd guess maybe happens is that Lily does something that can't be deterministically reconciled and the show issues forth the idea that human "free will" defeats a notional determinism.  Maybe, I don't know...

[Vaughn]

I watched this week's episode wearing headphones and it's just an excellent sounding show, much like other Garland stuff. 

 

I wonder why Kenton went after Jamie and presumably Lily instead of Forest and Katie? If he's the head of their security, shouldn't he be well able to do them in if its revenge he wants? Poor Jamie, I hope it works out better in a different strand of the multiverse. 

 

Narrative structure question - so at the beginning of the show, when Sergei gets hired, then killed, do Forest and Katie already know that's going to happen? I think not because they need Lyndon's break-through of using the multiverse theory to get the resolution right? So then have they really had so much time to scroll through the future to watch how stuff plays out like with Lyndon and Lily? Hasn't it only been a few days, days which included other stuff like meeting the senator and playing frisbee? 

 

I enjoyed the hell out of this show and yet I don't think I have any preconceived notions of how this would/should end or mysteries I have to have tied up so there's much less need to stick a specific landing for me, unlike GoT or Lost. Come to think of it, Garland's last two movies just kind of ended without summation either so that's probably where we're heading. Neat! 

 

But seriously, poor Jamie. He just wanted to be a good boyfriend and make some tea. 

[Vaughn]

That was a pretty good wrap-up. I was maybe 5% expecting a Matrix type situation where Lily realized that if she was in a simulation that she could somehow have transcend the modeled physical limits of her world. I didn't get the conversation between Katie and Forrest about Lyndon though? Lyndon is still dead in the real world and there wasn't any indicator that the Lyndon in the simulation was aware of the real world, right? 

It's funny that Garland has been open about not thinking much about tech leaders but, in a very real world way, the tech leader in his show got exactly what he wanted. 

[Raja]

Posted in the watched thread - Also, how fucking amazing was the score for the finale?????

Caught the Devs season 1 finale earlier today - imo, it's everything good science fiction should be, and S1 on the whole really worked for me ( unlike something like Westworld, which I think is generally bad with a few good episodes) - I think for some people it might be a little slow, but I thought it really came together well and had a fabulous ending.

Gotta shout out the score here, it has one of the most memorable & haunting scores that I can remember, it is *so* good and came together really well in the last episode. By and large it is an original score, and it's beautiful. Certainly one I am going to revisit often.

I think the writing, specifically the dialogue, could have been a little better though.

There's also a nod to Ex Machina which amused me & is kinda great.

[Vaughn]

This was also helped enormously by only being 8 hours of TV. 

[Raja]

I need that score in my veins. It's so good.

[Mexal]

15 hours ago, Raja said:

Posted in the watched thread - Also, how fucking amazing was the score for the finale?????

Caught the Devs season 1 finale earlier today - imo, it's everything good science fiction should be, and S1 on the whole really worked for me ( unlike something like Westworld, which I think is generally bad with a few good episodes) - I think for some people it might be a little slow, but I thought it really came together well and had a fabulous ending.

Gotta shout out the score here, it has one of the most memorable & haunting scores that I can remember, it is *so* good and came together really well in the last episode. By and large it is an original score, and it's beautiful. Certainly one I am going to revisit often.

I think the writing, specifically the dialogue, could have been a little better though.

There's also a nod to Ex Machina which amused me & is kinda great.

Score was amazing. Ending was great. Show was fantastic across the board. It was made as a mini-series so don't think there will be a season 2. Alex Garland is a must watch for me.

[ithanos]

That would have to be one of the most satisfying final episodes I've watched in a while. Its on par with the final episode of Black Sails IMHO. But being only 8 episodes, if you can get over how slow paced some of it is, its very rewarding. Especially coming after the attrition in last week's penultimate, I was half preparing for a let down. It's not perfect - there are a couple gripes I have, but I've got say for the most part Garland stuck this landing really well. The nod to Ex Machina was a nice touch and I'm pleasantly annoyed I didn't tease it out earlier. 

Agreed with everyone about the score.

23 hours ago, Vaughn said:

I didn't get the conversation between Katie and Forrest about Lyndon though? Lyndon is still dead in the real world and there wasn't any indicator that the Lyndon in the simulation was aware of the real world, right? 

Not a reference to Lyndon but to Lyndon's contirbution. She was referring to how their Devs system is a God within itself but only on Lyndon's priciple. My presumption is Devs is constantly generating multiple worlds, and this is shown when Forrest is talking with Lily. 

One gripe I have is the scene with the Senator(?). I don't think it was necessary, though it reminded me of the Star Trek: TNG episode with Moriarty and the Holosuite.

 

[Vaughn]

Anyone have an overview of the economics of making 8 episodes of super high production quality TV in a limited run, like 'Devs' or 'I am the night' last year (Chris Pine noir) vs going to series? 

I know that Syfy isn't actually in the prestige TV business but it would be so great if there was a consistent home on TV for making stuff like this. 'The Magicians' for example would have been so, so much better as a limited run series, maybe just 3 seasons of 8 episodes each, each covering the book. But I don't know if that works for the network. I'd bet FX took a bath on this but can claim that they're making prestige TV with acclaimed talent like Garland. A loss leader if you will. 

[red snow]

I've enjoyed the first two episodes. The pacing is quite deliberate and while very little is given away it's intriguing rather than frustrating.

[Ramsay B.]

I really liked the finale, and the series as a whole. Garland continues to impress. The ending reminded me of how some ended up in Westworld S2. I thought the Senator scene was kinda meh too, and just not needed. 

It sucks for the Forest’s and Lily’s in the shitty worlds.