DanteGabriel Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, davos said: I would be managing my emotions a lot better through this crisis, if the behavior of our federal government, particularly the president was inducing spasms of rage several times a day. I can't even pay that much attention to it or I'll fly into paroxysms of rage. Washington has had a prion disease for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Oh goodie, I'm looking forward to my Republican co-workers bemoaning the Dems for obstructing the bill to help America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Triskele said: Maybe remind them of Obama's recovery act and how Republicans refused to vote for it no matter what was in it. You *KNOW* that is both ancient history and 'fake news.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Fez said: Just one economist's prediction, but still... holy fuck... I've thought for a while that the estimates from Goldman Sachs and others were too rosy, but I didn't think it'd be this rough either. Unless Congress can pass a much, much larger bill than even $2 trillion, I think we're at the point the pain and suffering from the economic collapse is getting worse than letting the virus run free. Assuming this prediction holds true. Never mind the Great Depression, that's a collapse that exceeds the effect of the break-up of the Soviet Union on the Russian economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 25 minutes ago, Triskele said: Maybe remind them of Obama's recovery act and how Republicans refused to vote for it no matter what was in it. ETA: Fauci just made an interesting point on CNN about this drug cloroquile (SP), the malaria drug that Trump keeps harping on. He said this quickly, but I think his point was this: we still do not know if this drug works for COVID, but now lots of people with minimal symptoms might ask their doctor for it. Because it's already FDA approved it can be widely prescribed if people's doctor's are willing to do it. But if it does work (still a huge if) then one would ideally want to use it only for those that are most sick, so everyone getting is mass-prescribed could lead to a shortage on that drug where those that need it most cannot bet it. An unintended consequence. The other problem; lots of people with autoimmune disorders take those drugs. Shortages for them could be deadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said: The other problem; lots of people with autoimmune disorders take those drugs. Shortages for them could be deadly. A board friend went out and got two months of prescription (she has RA) so she doesn't run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 hour ago, The Marquis de Leech said: Never mind the Great Depression, that's a collapse that exceeds the effect of the break-up of the Soviet Union on the Russian economy. Yep. Combined with greedy, incompetent leadership, it is a potential civilization ender - though, more likely, it means a real rough patch for the next couple decades as first world civilization is reshaped. One does have to wonder if Jace has an appropriate selection of Post Apocalyptic outfits, though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, ThinkerX said: One does have to wonder if Jace has an appropriate selection of Post Apocalyptic outfits, though.... Plague Doctor outfits on the catwalk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 It's also occurred to me that we might see mass nationalisations throughout the Western World that will make Bernie Sanders look like Ayn Rand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Resurrected Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: The stimulus package... failed. edit, in the Senate. Also, dirty Rand Paul was face to face and in the gym with senators as early as this morning. And in the goddamned POOL for fucks sake. Number one- I didn’t know we bought them a pool. Number two- gross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 I am starting to wonder - we have an awful lot of old right wing senators, don't we? They start keeling over from the Corona Virus, will the rest have the guts to remain in session? And what of replacing the ones that die? This whole mess - this whole past year is sounding more and more like the prelude to one of these teenage dystonian novels.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 6 hours ago, Triskele said: Except, joy, will probably happen all over the world at the same time. It's not being widely said yet, either because we're all distracted or because it's deliberately being held because the experts don't want to cause another panic before we know for sure but it's pretty clear this is gonna be a completely unprecedented mauling of the world economy and how it works. I mean I'm not an economist by any measure whatsoever but I don't think you have to be one to put those dots together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, polishgenius said: It's not being widely said yet, either because we're all distracted or because it's deliberately being held because the experts don't want to cause another panic before we know for sure but it's pretty clear this is gonna be a completely unprecedented mauling of the world economy and how it works. I mean I'm not an economist by any measure whatsoever but I don't think you have to be one to put those dots together. This is unprecedented in modern times, but the one thing that holds from the Spanish flu pandemic or WWII is that there was no real long-term impact on tangible, material stuff -- it's not like an industry gets wiped out because transport and factories are physically wrecked or there's a labor shortage going forward because the working age cohorts have been decimated. It's going to be massively disruptive fiscally, the shockwave will work its way through the system, and, I don't know, 3 years out we're going to be looking at this and seeing very little different from what we saw 6 months ago. Maybe you'll be dining at different restaurants or visiting different bars, maybe the mechanic's shop has changed ownership, etc., but the underlying factors that make a good economy and market are still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, polishgenius said: It's not being widely said yet, either because we're all distracted or because it's deliberately being held because the experts don't want to cause another panic before we know for sure but it's pretty clear this is gonna be a completely unprecedented mauling of the world economy and how it works. I mean I'm not an economist by any measure whatsoever but I don't think you have to be one to put those dots together. It actually gets worse the more you dig. The USA and the UK have their own currencies. Their Government can literally print themselves silly, so far as the money supply goes. Budget deficits? Nationalisation of major industries to save them? No worries. The bigger worry is the Eurozone. Italy was profoundly dysfunctional as it was, and it doesn't have its own currency... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Ran said: This is unprecedented in modern times, but the one thing that holds from the Spanish flu pandemic or WWII is that there was no real long-term impact on tangible, material stuff -- it's not like an industry gets wiped out because transport and factories are physically wrecked or there's a labor shortage going forward because the working age cohorts have been decimated. There was no destruction of physical assets between 1929 and 1932 either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ran said: This is unprecedented in modern times, but the one thing that holds from the Spanish flu pandemic or WWII is that there was no real long-term impact on tangible, material stuff -- it's not like an industry gets wiped out because transport and factories are physically wrecked or there's a labor shortage going forward because the working age cohorts have been decimated. It's going to be massively disruptive fiscally, the shockwave will work its way through the system, and, I don't know, 3 years out we're going to be looking at this and seeing very little different from what we saw 6 months ago. Maybe you'll be dining at different restaurants or visiting different bars, maybe the mechanic's shop has changed ownership, etc., Yeah, pretty much agree. Besides central banks, etc have practically unlimited capability to inject liquidity to the markets. There are also other economic instruments including nationalization. However if this drags on, we will start to see disruption in the supply lines. When or how severe it's hard to say. I wonder what the financial sharks are doing amid too many sinking boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, The Marquis de Leech said: There was no destruction of physical assets between 1929 and 1932 either. 33% of banks disappeared. Money was a physical asset at that time because it was pegged to gold. The biggest economies were still on the gold standard and didn't have means to increase money supply to weather the storm. The banking system and fiscal economy is very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ran said: 33% of banks disappeared. Money was a physical asset at that time because it was pegged to gold. The biggest economies were still on the gold standard and didn't have means to increase money supply to weather the storm. The banking system and fiscal economy is very different. My point was that the "real" economy (human labour, the land, the factories) was still very much intact, not that it did much good. We also have a modern variant of the gold standard, in the form of the Euro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said: My point was that the "real" economy (human labour, the land, the factories) was still very much intact, not that it did much good. Because there was no money. That's not an issue this time. The Spanish Flu shows you what happens when neither the monetary system nor the physical inputs into the economy are wrecked by a global disaster. Quote We also have a modern variant of the gold standard, in the form of the Euro. I think those arguments are overstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Yeah, the argument about the Euro here appears to proceed from the belief that the Euro is a priori a Bad Thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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