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''The other continent is bounded to the north by an icy polar sea.''

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http://web.archive.org/web/20001005212114/eventhorizon.com/sfzine/chats/transcripts/031899.html

 

xaosx Mr Martin, why does Westeros seem the only place effected by the Others and the long winters? The other parts of the world seem not to care.
George_RR_Martin Westeros is not the only place affected, but it's affected most strongly, because it's the only landmass that extends that far north. The other continent is bounded to the north by an icy polar sea.


In the interview George says Essos and Westeros are connected via a polar sea in the far east of Essos. Did George later correct himself on this? I recall him doing so, but I'm not sure. 

 

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4 hours ago, Brandon Ice-Eyes said:

I feel like fans have really tried to force the theory that Westeros and Essos are connected despite George repeatedly saying that they don’t.

That can change if the body of water freezes. 

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8 hours ago, Brandon Ice-Eyes said:

I feel like fans have really tried to force the theory that Westeros and Essos are connected despite George repeatedly saying that they don’t.

That's why I'm asking, I'm not sure how you came up with that. 

Thank you @kissdbyfire

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10 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

That can change if the body of water freezes. 

That's a LOT of water to freeze, mate. The Shivering Sea is the second biggest body of water we know. The biggest being the Sunset Sea which we suspect stretches to the eastern shores of Essos.

I think George Isolated the Others to a secluded area, making the Wall and the men who watch over it unique and significant. If the Others could simply hike to Ibben then it'd make the whole Wall narrative completely pointless.

Without trying to derail, it makes me wonder if the Children's attempts to smash the land (The Stepstones and the swampy bog north of the neck) were in-fact an attempt at keeping something inside Westeros instead of out. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

That's a LOT of water to freeze, mate. The Shivering Sea is the second biggest body of water we know.

If the Long Night was worldwide, this may suggest where the Others stopped. 

Quote

Lomas Longstrider, in his Wonders Made by Man, recounts meeting descendants of the Rhoynar in the ruins of the festival city of Chroyane who have tales of a darkness that made the Rhoyne dwindle and disappear, her waters frozen as far south as the joining of the Selhoru.

https://i.imgur.com/oEcERn4.jpg

So I wouldn't really be surprised if almost everything to the north of that was frozen using some sort of magic.  

6 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

were in-fact an attempt at keeping something inside Westeros instead of out. 

It seems like it might not be a coincidence the line runs through the Bloodstone Isle.  

Edited by Narsil4

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On 3/22/2020 at 9:32 PM, Narsil4 said:

If the Long Night was worldwide, this may suggest where the Others stopped.  

To what end though? Why would the other's care about anything other than the ones with whom they made a pact with? The Others appear to have a relationship with tCotF and the FM. Andals, like most other races don't give two squirts about the Others. One would imagine that the anthologies of ethnic groups would of been shaped somehow by the presence of the Others and tales of the LN. Instead we only have FM and CotF openly discussing it. I'm trying to understand their (The Others') motives for heading east, here. From what I can tell from the series, the Others are looking for something specific and aren't being too hasty about it.  

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On 3/22/2020 at 11:07 AM, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Without trying to derail, it makes me wonder if the Children's attempts to smash the land (The Stepstones and the swampy bog north of the neck) were in-fact an attempt at keeping something inside Westeros instead of out. 

My theory is that these were actually attempts at engineering the climate. Notice that the breaking of the Arm of Dorne and the attempted breaking of the Neck (man, that sounds dark when I say it like that) don't just isolate land, they also connect oceans. When the Shivering Sea was isolated by Dorne being a contiguous land bridge, it would certainly have been much colder. Allowing the warm waters of the Summer Sea to mix with the cold waters of the Shivering Sea would warm the latter up considerably (thats basically what powers ocean currents in real life). If the Sunset Sea was added, as well, it could have sped things up even more.

It would have had the unfortunate effect of also cooling the Summer Sea - which is likely why so much of Essos is dry but has evidence of having been warmer in ancient times.

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3 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

To what end though? Why would the other's care about anything other than the ones with whom they made a pact with?

The Battle for the Dawn seems to suggest the sword Dawn was a large factor in the war. 

3 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

One would imagine that the anthologies of ethnic groups would of been shaped somehow by the presence of the Others and tales of the LN.

There seem to be a number of stories across the Known World about different aspects of the event. 
Quite similar to how different people describe the Red Comet. 

Also.. 

Quote

Men forget. Only the trees remember.

3 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

I'm trying to understand their (The Others') motives for heading east, here.

Since they don't seem to be going after Dawn again, I suspect they are just there to remove UnBran as a threat. 

If the Others were once slaves of the CotF then he might be seen as a new slave master. One that can directly control them through skinchanging, similar to what he does with Hodor. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Narsil4 said:

I suspect they are just there to remove UnBran as a threat. 

UnBran? What does that mean?

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

UnBran? What does that mean?

I just use it to mean this..  

Weir.net + Bran = UnBran   

Figured it was better than Tree-Boy.  

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2 minutes ago, Narsil4 said:

I just use it to mean this..  

Weir.net + Bran = UnBran   

Figured it was better than Tree-Boy.  

Gotcha, tks for clarifying.

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On 3/24/2020 at 4:10 PM, DominusNovus said:

My theory is that these were actually attempts at engineering the climate. Notice that the breaking of the Arm of Dorne and the attempted breaking of the Neck (man, that sounds dark when I say it like that) don't just isolate land, they also connect oceans. When the Shivering Sea was isolated by Dorne being a contiguous land bridge, it would certainly have been much colder. Allowing the warm waters of the Summer Sea to mix with the cold waters of the Shivering Sea would warm the latter up considerably (thats basically what powers ocean currents in real life). If the Sunset Sea was added, as well, it could have sped things up even more.

It would have had the unfortunate effect of also cooling the Summer Sea - which is likely why so much of Essos is dry but has evidence of having been warmer in ancient times.

Ok. I like the idea that the land being separated also means the seas connecting. I can see the allure in observing something like the breaking of the arm from a different perspective. What pulls me back is the memory of Cotter Pyke's last message to the LC. He complains of undead lurking in the waters. So it looks as if the Others are to some extent already utilising the sea without needing it to ice over. I wont pretend to understand how ocean climates work. All I can say is that I can't think of a single reason for the others to have much interest in the sea or the lands beyond it. We know there was a pact. We know they pursued Bran when he went to tTEC. We know they took an interest in Waymar's sword. We know they want baby boys. None of that implies global or eastern ambitions.

 

On 3/24/2020 at 6:25 PM, Narsil4 said:

The Battle for the Dawn seems to suggest the sword Dawn was a large factor in the war. 

There seem to be a number of stories across the Known World about different aspects of the event. 
Quite similar to how different people describe the Red Comet. 

Also.. 

Since they don't seem to be going after Dawn again, I suspect they are just there to remove UnBran as a threat. 

If the Others were once slaves of the CotF then he might be seen as a new slave master. One that can directly control them through skinchanging, similar to what he does with Hodor. 

 

Yeah... I completely agree. Bran is the ultimate slave master, or has the potential to be. But the key part of my comment was, why EAST? When Bran is literally under their noses. And they (the Others) know it. 
 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

But the key part of my comment was, why EAST?

I suspect that the initial goal of the CotF was to contain or destroy the GEotD.   
Which may have stretched from Oldtown to the 5 Forts.  

With them basically using the Others as an army of mind-controlled Unsullied.   
Perhaps also eventually being freed by a Dany-like figure.  
Maybe by the Amethyst Empress or Corpse Queen?  

4 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

When Bran is literally under their noses. And they (the Others) know it. 

They may have realized a new master was close from reading the signs, but maybe don't initially know exactly who or what route they might take to get past the Wall. 

Once Bran connects to the Weirwoods, all their actions may not be their own.  

Edited by Narsil4

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11 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Ok. I like the idea that the land being separated also means the seas connecting. I can see the allure in observing something like the breaking of the arm from a different perspective. What pulls me back is the memory of Cotter Pyke's last message to the LC. He complains of undead lurking in the waters. So it looks as if the Others are to some extent already utilising the sea without needing it to ice over. I wont pretend to understand how ocean climates work. All I can say is that I can't think of a single reason for the others to have much interest in the sea or the lands beyond it. We know there was a pact. We know they pursued Bran when he went to tTEC. We know they took an interest in Waymar's sword. We know they want baby boys. None of that implies global or eastern ambitions.

It isn't so much about the ocean themselves, but the climate of the land that ocean borders. With the Shivering Sea colder prior to the breaking of the arm (which it pretty straight forward: mix cold water and warmer water, you get water in between the two temperatures), the lands bordering the Shivering Sea (the eastern side of Westeros and the north and west parts of Essos) would be colder as well. If Westeros is colder, that is more suitable to the Others.

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Well, the Five Forts in Essos were constructed to defend from something coming in the northern end of that land mass.  Seems to me, Essos has something threatening them too.  Munchkins exists on both continents.  The miniatures who served the Undying Ones have their counterparts in Westeros, the Children.  I suppose Essos may also have ice creatures in the north who will migrate to the south as the climate turns cold.  No connection is needed between Essos and Westeros. 

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11 hours ago, DominusNovus said:

It isn't so much about the ocean themselves, but the climate of the land that ocean borders. With the Shivering Sea colder prior to the breaking of the arm (which it pretty straight forward: mix cold water and warmer water, you get water in between the two temperatures), the lands bordering the Shivering Sea (the eastern side of Westeros and the north and west parts of Essos) would be colder as well. If Westeros is colder, that is more suitable to the Others.

Oh ok, I get ya. Cool. They do like it cold. 

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On 3/24/2020 at 12:10 PM, DominusNovus said:

My theory is that these were actually attempts at engineering the climate. Notice that the breaking of the Arm of Dorne and the attempted breaking of the Neck (man, that sounds dark when I say it like that) don't just isolate land, they also connect oceans. When the Shivering Sea was isolated by Dorne being a contiguous land bridge, it would certainly have been much colder. Allowing the warm waters of the Summer Sea to mix with the cold waters of the Shivering Sea would warm the latter up considerably (thats basically what powers ocean currents in real life). If the Sunset Sea was added, as well, it could have sped things up even more.

It would have had the unfortunate effect of also cooling the Summer Sea - which is likely why so much of Essos is dry but has evidence of having been warmer in ancient times.

Have you ever seen the climate model for what would happen if the isthmus of Panama did not exist and the Atlantic and Pacific joined?  Long story short, no more ice ages.  Just thought it might interest you based on the point you made.

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