Luzifer's right hand Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Arakan said: Did you read what I wrote like at all? It is about ATTENTION to topics! About perspective! You stated posting about the "new left" for some reason in the COVID-19 thread... perspective lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 51 minutes ago, Arakan said: Wuhan Route: mandatory isolation in apartments / houses. Leaving allowed for one person every second or third day to buy essential stuff at exactly defined checkpoints. Then back to the apartment. No leaving the apartment for work except you are fundamentally essential (doctors, nurses, security etc.). We are nowhere near those measures in Europe. The Korean route is not possible for us at this stage. Maybe later when the rate of new infections is „under control“. forget the daily new cases statistics. Useless everywhere in Europe. No systematic testing is done, no systematic reporting. I only look at the cumulative development over a certain period (3-5 days) as of now. In Germany we had the situation of short-term optimism because „the cases went down“ on Saturday. Not all regional CDCs have reported them to the central organ. Simple as that :))). Useless figures. Ah, all right. I must say I think this is something Europe should have imposed two weeks ago for a month. But the economy is more important. Statistic figures are tricky to begin with and bring filtered through media outlets is not helping them either. 48 minutes ago, Ran said: They list sources here. I presume the issue is that there are uneven update speeds across sources and that they may be relying on global organizations who are receiving their own data from other parties so that adds to lag. Yes you’re right, I do notice this locally, sometimes a death will appear in opposition media before the government has time to publish it and update the official numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 22 minutes ago, Arakan said: No. You did not understand. Not at all. No, I did, and you were kind enough to repeat yourself to make it clear that I had it right the first time. It's somewhat off topic, but it is a very real fear of many I know that this virus and associated emergency measures will be used as a screen to curtail individual liberties and delay reforms that really urgently matter in the area of equal opportunities. 'Priorities' will be the very word used as a call to do this. When you've spent your life being told that your identity and rights are a low priority (ie don't really matter), you're entitled to be worried, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said: You stated posting about the "new left" for some reason in the COVID-19 thread... perspective lol... Yes. The new left aka the Green parties (if you can call them left at all). Pushing for a fucking tempolimit on German motorways to reduce GHG by some 0.2%. Pushing with two or three dozen articles in Spiegel (German equivalent of The Guardian) within a month. I wish there were so many articles about how understaffed the hospitals are, how nurses are often treated like shit, working themselves into the ground. But hey I guess not the voter clientele... And yes this relates to the C19 because we will see now the strains on the system. as I said, it’s all about perspective and Balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Arakan said: Yes. The new left aka the Green parties (if you can call them left at all). Pushing for a fucking tempolimit on German motorways to reduce GHG by some 0.2%. Pushing with two or three dozen articles in Spiegel (German equivalent of The Guardian) within a month. I wish there were so many articles about how understaffed the hospitals are, how nurses are often treated like shit, working themselves into the ground. But hey I guess not the voter clientele... And yes this relates to the C19 because we will see now the strains on the system. as I said, it’s all about perspective and Balance. Yeah the green parties are to blame because the ruling parties have done nothing about it for 15 or so years. Hell you live in a state which has been controlled by the same right wing party for 63 unbelievable years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, mormont said: No, I did, and you were kind enough to repeat yourself to make it clear that I had it right the first time. It's somewhat off topic, but it is a very real fear of many I know that this virus and associated emergency measures will be used as a screen to curtail individual liberties and delay reforms that really urgently matter in the area of equal opportunities. 'Priorities' will be the very word used as a call to do this. When you've spent your life being told that your identity and rights are a low priority (ie don't really matter), you're entitled to be worried, IMO. I understand your fear. And I hope solidarity will win, not jingoism and rightwing politics. I hope all left-leaning people will unite to fight for each other. Sorry that it came across as „not important“. It is. The left as always in the last 150 years is splintered. The world will change after this. And who comes out on top is not really sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said: Yeah the green parties are to blame because the ruling parties have done nothing about it fear 15 or so years. Hell you live in a state which has been controlled by the same right wing party for 63 unbelievable years. To blame is too strong a word. But see it this way: the old left has no pushing power in the media. The new left has. I just wish they would use it much broader. Maybe I am just disappointed that’s all. With regards to Bavaria, well we are the conservative North Korea. I have only one vote ETA: actually it’s already 73 years. Must be some world record :)). I hope it will change but I gave up hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 17 minutes ago, Arakan said: Well Austria is an outlier. Sure, though not a big surprise that the two German-speaking countries may have similar cultural/political/economic perspectives on health care priorities. I wish I knew why they have these differences compared to many others, but I'm guessing most of the discussion is going to be in German. 17 minutes ago, Arakan said: maybe the high amount of Germany is a leftover of the Cold War. The statistics I read is this (ICU/100k) GER 29 FRA/SPA 12 ITA 10 UK 6.6 No reason for the UK to not be on per with France or Spain except rightwing neoliberal politics. That's an interesting thought, and I'm sure UK members may have some ideas as to why the UK's ICU resources fell. I will say Sweden cut back its intensive care beds quite heavily over the last few decades, and indeed starting in the 90s, so it may have a similar root -- they kept a lot for fear of a hot war and with that out of the way they started to feel like it was wasteful to have so many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 To be fair those campaigning to stop all flights , cars and economic activity in order to save the planet are getting what they wished for.. probably not how they wanted it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 What I want to say: we all took the „little guy“ for granted for way too long. I love FFF, it’s great to see a grass-roots movement with idealism again. But we forgot so long about those we need right now. My dad, 63, immigrant, underlying health conditions, is a construction worker. Still works, drives in a truck with 4 other guys. Talk about social distancing. The boss couldn’t even provide them with desinfection spray. My mum, 60, relatively healthy, works retail (Lidl). Two cousins are nurses. Who fights for them? We take all of them for granted, often they are treated like shit. Low wages very often. I did not see hundreds of thousands of students on the streets for them. Why? Let’s be honest. We take them for granted. But now everyone relies on them. In France retail workers (some companies) are getting extra bonus now. They are risking their lives. It’s not a bonus, it’s a hazard extra. Let‘s make noise around social media for them! All around Europe, the US etc.! The youth FFF movement has power, let’s use it for the „little guys“ as well! Those who risk their lives for society! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 17 minutes ago, Arakan said: What I want to say: we all took the „little guy“ for granted for way too long. I love FFF, it’s great to see a grass-roots movement with idealism again. But we forgot so long about those we need right now. My dad, 63, immigrant, underlying health conditions, is a construction worker. Still works, drives in a truck with 4 other guys. Talk about social distancing. The boss couldn’t even provide them with desinfection spray. My mum, 60, relatively healthy, works retail (Lidl). Two cousins are nurses. Who fights for them? We take all of them for granted, often they are treated like shit. Low wages very often. I did not see hundreds of thousands of students on the streets for them. Why? Let’s be honest. We take them for granted. But now everyone relies on them. In France retail workers (some companies) are getting extra bonus now. They are risking their lives. It’s not a bonus, it’s a hazard extra. Let‘s make noise around social media for them! All around Europe, the US etc.! The youth FFF movement has power, let’s use it for the „little guys“ as well! Those who risk their lives for society! I have been to health care worker/caretaker protests organised by the union(some family members and friends work in these areas and I tagged along). People care even less about these people than they care about the FFF crowd. A general strike would be the only thing that would work imho and people have been too indoctrinated for that. People in ok paid jobs look down on people who work low wage low prestige jobs, people in low wage low prestige jobs look down on the unemployed. We should all look down on the billionaires and millionaires and take their undeserved wealth away from them but that is not going to happen because they control both the media and the government in every country on this planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 21 minutes ago, Heartofice said: To be fair those campaigning to stop all flights , cars and economic activity in order to save the planet are getting what they wished for.. probably not how they wanted it though. There are quite a few socio-economic studies out there who participates in FFF. The results are not surprising. Mostly wealthy backgrounds, never had a need in their lives, privileged. Talked with some in Munich about the issues of social justice, wealth distribution. Forget it. No, only a universal movement makes sense to me. It’s all related. C19 is the wake up call we needed. It’s well and good to rise consumer taxes but it will only hurt the underprivileged. Not that many in FFF gave a real shit. This pandemic will open eyes. Or so I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Talking about C19, economy and money. I see no real problem for strong public spending. Just have to think out of the box. A progressive solidarity tax on income, maybe even wealth. The US, UK, Germany etc are so rich. Unbelievable rich. Just a question who has the wealth. If someone like Bezos gives up 10% of his wealth for rebuilding the economy what is the fundamental problem? He will still be a multi-billionaire with 100+ billions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Prince Charles confirmed, he is 71 but i'm getting he is getting a ventilator, but if Phillip or the Queen have it they are screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Prince Charles confirmed, he is 71 but i'm getting he is getting a ventilator, but if Phillip or the Queen have it they are screwed. Maybe what is needed to wake up the ignorants all around the world. Playing ugly devils advocate but when such a prominent figure has to be hospitalized it will give many the fear of God. Which is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Prince Charles confirmed, he is 71 but i'm getting he is getting a ventilator, but if Phillip or the Queen have it they are screwed. I suppose his job is basically going round shaking hands so not a massive surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, Arakan said: Maybe what is needed to wake up the ignorants all around the world. Playing ugly devils advocate but when such a prominent figure has to be hospitalized it will give many the fear of God. Which is needed. I'm not sure "the fear of God" is something anybody needs, like, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Well just coming back from supermarket where there is a ‘5 in 5 out’ system going on and a queue round the block of people waiting to go in. What occurred to me was that nobody complained, nobody grumbled, everyone did as they were told. We are seeing a few idiots online still ignoring advice but actually this crisis has shown that people are essentially not all that bad. 170,000 people volunteered overnight to help out here in the UK, doing deliveries and other jobs. There are groups everywhere getting shopping for elderly people down their roads. People genuinely want to help. I think that’s great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: I'm not sure "the fear of God" is something anybody needs, like, ever. Didn’t that guy stand by and let his only son get murdered? Who’d be afraid of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: I'm not sure "the fear of God" is something anybody needs, like, ever. Proverb. I am an atheist and not a native English speaker. If it’s not the correct one mea culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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