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Aerys ii kingsgs guard

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Am I the only one who thinks Aerys kings guard should be spit upon instead of being  remembered fondly ? I mean they stood and did nothing while a mad man ruled and burned people alive.

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7 hours ago, Finley McLeod said:

King Aerys II had an all-star Kingsguard.  They were awesome, except for that piece of trash called Jaime Lannister. 

Actually, it's quite interesting how the mad king managed to build such a professional and all-star Kingsguard, while we can see that he appointed young Jaime Lannister because of personal reasons only, that is to piss off his father.

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It is a brotherhood sworn to the Iron Throne & who sits on it. To me, the fact that *most* of them stood by a corrupt king until the end actually speaks better for the lot. They are not partisans, nor lords, nor counselors. They are sworn to protect the monarch. 

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When you compare them to the brutes that currently occupy the white sword tower. They seem like knights of songs, and they were. Aerys’s kings guard were probably the most skilled and most famous kings guard in the history of Targaryen rule.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Young Maester said:

When you compare them to the brutes that currently occupy the white sword tower. They seem like knights of songs, and they were. Aerys’s kings guard were probably the most skilled and most famous kings guard in the history of Targaryen rule.

I see no difference between them morally speaking, but in relative of skill and PR, those guys were something else.

But Robert's KG were corrupts, Aerys' seven were moral cowards, besides of being traitors themselves if they knew what Rhaegar was up to.

Are we to suppose that Aerys' segen would not have hit  Rhaella had their King demanded  it??

Edited by frenin

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Kingsguards are almost exclusively horrible people. What else to expect from slaves sworn to a monster? 

Under Aerys this was highlighted, and under Joffrey its thrown at our face. These are the only KG we really know. And Tommen I guess, whos 5 knights 1 sellsword and 1 frankenstein dont seek to make the best of what westeros has to offer

(Danys gives me pause though. The snitch and the turncloak, lol. Idk, they seek more genuine then the rest... But theyre probably not)

Quote

But whenever Aerys gave a man to the flames, Queen Rhaella would have a visitor in the night. The day he burned his mace-and-dagger Hand, Jaime and Jon Darry had stood at guard outside her bedchamber whilst the king took his pleasure. "You're hurting me," they had heard Rhaella cry through the oaken door. "You're hurting me." In some queer way, that had been worse than Lord Chelsted's screaming. "We are sworn to protect her as well," Jaime had finally been driven to say. "We are," Darry allowed, "but not from him."

It breaks my heart that Dunk the Lunk will wind up wearing the white cloak of a coward

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Posted (edited)

Were the best.  He had an awesome group of men serving him.  And I will echo @Finley McLeod in saying "except for Jamie Lannister".

There are some jobs that call for dedication and total commitment. Those are obviously not the same as the work-for-a-paycheck occupations that most people have.  The KGs serve Aerys and it is their duty to protect him.  Also consider the time period. Many men, common and high born, would have stood by as another man took advantage of his wife or beaten their children.  Think of all those Northmen who stood by as their higher lords raped the newly wedded girls.  In hindsight, yes they might have advised His Royal Highness to be gentle and kinder to his wife.  We have evidence to support that the king listened to advice. 

 

Edited by The Lord of the Crossing

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Remember, all this took place long before, and in a different world, than the Nuremberg Trials. In the Seven Kingdoms, "I was only following orders", the King's orders no less, is the best rationale there is. Of all of Aerys II's Kingsguard, ONLY the "spit upon" Ser Jaime Lannister recognized that there can be more than just that single ethical consideration, that one oath. He saw that Aerys's orders ("Burn them all!") contradicted both his knightly vows and his familial responsibilities. Then there was the issue of everybody in King's Landing dying horribly by wildfire. Tens of thousands of people (including his dad's invading army, and Tywin himself).

We can guess that Ser Barristan Selmy would have let Aerys burn down the city, and would have proudly died at his side, had he been there instead of Lannister. Selmy would have died a hero. Weird, huh?

We know these days that following unlawful and immoral orders is wrong. But the morality in Westeros is just plain hinky. It is what it is. Spit on Ser Jaime, if you must, but in that instance, he did the right thing.

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On 3/24/2020 at 12:47 PM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Were the best.  He had an awesome group of men serving him.  And I will echo @Finley McLeod in saying "except for Jamie Lannister".

There are some jobs that call for dedication and total commitment. Those are obviously not the same as the work-for-a-paycheck occupations that most people have.  The KGs serve Aerys and it is their duty to protect him.  Also consider the time period. Many men, common and high born, would have stood by as another man took advantage of his wife or beaten their children.  Think of all those Northmen who stood by as their higher lords raped the newly wedded girls.  In hindsight, yes they might have advised His Royal Highness to be gentle and kinder to his wife.  We have evidence to support that the king listened to advice. 

 

  • Ned found out about Robert beating his wife. He didn't do anything about it.
  • People in the North knew about Ramsay's games.
  • People didn't do anything when Tywin killed men, women, and children.
  • Mormont and Jon didn't do anything and they knew about Craster's family practices.

It is not fair to judge the Kingsguard's morality without looking at the world they lived in. 

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Them standing by when a king commits atrocities is their job. As it was said above, they are like willing slaves. Which is why Jaime Lannister is the worst Kingsguard in the history and is still just as bad no matter how much he is dedicated to the position nowadays.

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Posted (edited)

They were King Aerys Targaryen's security detail. So yeah, it would not have been fitting for them to take part in politics unless he commanded it. I compere them to a more dedicated version of the Secret Service. It is not the function of the Secret Service agents to interfere with the king's political affairs. The KG are a more extreme security detail in that they serve for life. Agents have families and do it for pay. The function is still the same though. An agent may not agree with the president politically but that will never give him the excuse to not do his job. Those were different times and many a knight would have stood by while his lord employer did worse than what Aerys was doing to his queen. Steelshanks would have allowed Roose Bolton to skin people. He would have cut Arya's tongue if Roose had commanded it.  Jorey would kill if Ned commanded it.  Don't forget Arya. She murdered an old man who had done nothing against her, never threatened her, to please a cult of assassins. And that pillar of virtue, Davos, was an assistant to a shadow assassination.  Ned would have stood by and let Robert assassinate a pregnant teenager.  Sansa is an accessory to the slow murder of an innocent child who loves her.  The KG of Aerys' time look very clean and sparkling compared to those examples.  They were not perfect men but they were much better than most men of the time.  See Barristan spoke up and saved Dontos.  Aerys listened.  I wonder if Stannis would have spared Dontos if he had been in the shoes of Aerys Targaryen.  

On 3/24/2020 at 12:47 PM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Were the best.  He had an awesome group of men serving him.  And I will echo @Finley McLeod in saying "except for Jamie Lannister".

There are some jobs that call for dedication and total commitment. Those are obviously not the same as the work-for-a-paycheck occupations that most people have.  The KGs serve Aerys and it is their duty to protect him.  Also consider the time period. Many men, common and high born, would have stood by as another man took advantage of his wife or beaten their children.  Think of all those Northmen who stood by as their higher lords raped the newly wedded girls.  In hindsight, yes they might have advised His Royal Highness to be gentle and kinder to his wife.  We have evidence to support that the king listened to advice. 

 

I can agree. Aerys was known to listen to advice from those he trusted. One of the KG on duty should have gently adviced their king to be nice to his queen. If so, this was a matter of a poor judgment call rather than a moral deficiency.  

Jaime should have taken an example from Barristan and saved Aerys. He might have had to carry him out of the Red Keep and sneak him out. Then so be it.  That is what Jaime should have done. His feelings for Aerys should not matter. His duty to Aerys is the only thing that should matter.  Save Aerys to save the city. Save Aerys because it is his sworn duty.

Edited by Prince Rhaego's Soul

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2 hours ago, Princess Daenerys said:
  • Ned found out about Robert beating his wife. He didn't do anything about it.
  • People in the North knew about Ramsay's games.
  • People didn't do anything when Tywin killed men, women, and children.
  • Mormont and Jon didn't do anything and they knew about Craster's family practices.

It is not fair to judge the Kingsguard's morality without looking at the world they lived in. 

-Ned was too weak to do anything about it and I'll be shocked if Ned would let Robert rape Cersei in front of him. Hell, Ned stood up for Dany against his best friends.

 

- Tywin did that during war,  if Tywin started killing children on daily basis, for the sale of it, it would be different.

 

- I don't remember the Craster  context  too well to make an opinion here.

 

It's entirely and completely fair to judge their morality, we know perfectly the world they lived in and only the moral cowards or monsters enabled Aerys actions.

- Tywin did that during war,  if Tywin started killing children on daily basis, for the sale of it, it would be different.

 

- I don't remember the Craster  context  too well to make an opinion here.

 

 

- Do they?? In Winterfell his name is never spoken and Ramsay only runs  amon  when Robb is south and during the Greyjoys are invading the North. Sure there seem to be rumours but rumours are not  facts.

It's entirely and completely fair to judge their morality, we know perfectly the world they lived in and only the moral cowards or monsters enabled Aerys actions.If we start going to that route, then sure let's not judge anyone , from the slavers to Aerys. 

Davos rather betray his own King than partake in child murder, he had a choice, so do all, Aerys seven made theirs too. And ofc that speaks about their morality.

 

32 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

The KG of Aerys' time look very clean and sparkling compared to those examples. 

Aerys was killing innocents because his own paranoia while abusing his wife and ofc there is a ton of shit he did we know nothing about yet , you got to be kidding.

 

On 3/24/2020 at 5:47 PM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Think of all those Northmen who stood by as their higher lords raped the newly wedded girls. 

They didn't stand by. They were threatened by the lords. Are you comparing a peasant who is forced to let his wife be raped with a Kingsguard?? 

 

 

 

 

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Besides, is the current known Kingsguards really THAT bad? In so far, there's two mediocre knights (Boros Blount and Meryn Trant), one we don't really know much about (Preston Greenfield), another that was considered dangerous by the very Jaime fo'''kin' Lannister, former still very strong Barry Selmy, the florid but still competent Loras Tyrell, the dubious Kettleblack dude, who seems a phony, and the soon-to-be true knight Balon Swann. And Gregorstein, who since is not longer human doesn't count.

So (-): Blount, Trant, Kettleblack.

Kinda (+): Greenfield, Moore

Decisively (+): Lannister, Selmy, Swann, Tyrell

Alien: Strong

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