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Westworld IX; 03.22.20 Divergence - Westeros.org

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11 minutes ago, Relic said:

The more i mull it over the more it makes sense to me that Dolores put a "younger twin" of herself into Hale. I dont really see what else makes sense. 

 

edit - she snuggles Hale to sleep like Hale snuggled her "son". 

Thought crossed my mind, too. She could have made copies of herself just in case, and all the other spheres except Bernard's are a copy but at different points in her life.

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1 hour ago, DMC said:

Serac did say Charlotte wasn't the only source on the inside he had in their conversation, right?

Oh right. I hope it's Felix. 

1 hour ago, DMC said:

First would be, as others mentioned, Clem. 

I dunno, for one thing I'm fairly sure Clem's mind was destroyed when she was Lobotomized. So it would just be a shell of Clem. Barring any second- backup/recreated from memory shenanigans. (This idea that anyone can be brought back provided a host spent enough time with them is not my favorite.) 

But also I feel like new Hale just being one of the hosts isn't a big enough twist for this show.   

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1 minute ago, RumHam said:

(This idea that anyone can be brought back provided a host spent enough time with them is not my favorite.) 

Yeah it's kind of cheap, but raises something I was thinking about last night while watching.  The Nolans love fucking with time.  Like, I'm pretty sure both of them would marry time if it was legally possible to marry a concept.  As far as I can tell (and maybe I'm wrong, be happy if someone can tell me otherwise), we have no information on when everything's happening in the "real" world, other than it obviously happened after the hosts' revolution. 

So, considering that - compounded with the fact Dolores already is clearly capable of "rebuilding" Bernard - I think given time and her apparent capacity means Dolores could recreate almost whomever she wanted to with enough information.  Especially so when taking into account her detour into the "library" during the season 2 finale, which Bernard mentioned last week and is most likely going to resurface in the show's internal logic.  Plus, she demonstrated how much information she can access for essentially anybody in the world with her conversation with Paul's character, right?  Depending on your perspective, she's basically either robot Superman or Skynet at this point.  Considering they took 2 full seasons establishing her as that, I think it's entirely justified. 

12 minutes ago, RumHam said:

But also I feel like new Hale just being one of the hosts isn't a big enough twist for this show.   

Interesting.  So you think she'll be someone/thing that we have yet to be exposed to?  I suppose that's possible, but it'd need a lot of set up to pull off.  With only 5 episodes left I don't see much of a set up for such a twist.  Maybe the "rehoboam."  That'd be going down the same type of track Sarah Conner Chronicles took in terms of two AI's that were "siblings" ending up in conflict with each other.  Damnit, now I need to have a cigarette and ponder this idea that's incredibly unlikely to be true.  Thanks Obama RumHam!

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20 minutes ago, DMC said:

Interesting.  So you think she'll be someone/thing that we have yet to be exposed to?  I suppose that's possible, but it'd need a lot of set up to pull off.  With only 5 episodes left I don't see much of a set up for such a twist.  Maybe the "rehoboam."  That'd be going down the same type of track Sarah Conner Chronicles took in terms of two AI's that were "siblings" ending up in conflict with each other.  Damnit, now I need to have a cigarette and ponder this idea that's incredibly unlikely to be true.  Thanks Obama RumHam!

I should have said one of the other hosts.  I still think she could be another version of Delores, maybe without the Wyatt parts. or a human brain in a host body, if Delores figured out how to slow or stop the deterioration. Or even a host/human hybrid that is part Hale and part one of the hosts. 

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2 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I still think she could be another version of Delores, maybe without the Wyatt parts

My knee-jerk reaction to that is I think it'd be lame.  Maybe it could be done well, but I don't really like the basic idea.  Just seems pretty cheap to me.

As for "Hale" being some type of hybrid of actual Hale, yeah, I could get on board with that.  But it doesn't really follow with Dolores' conversation with "Hale" in last night's episode.

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I was initially thinking Delores without Wyatt but I don't see that meshing with the predator stuff. William could fit that, but I don't think would fit the stuff with the kid - and I think the kid is going to be important. The kid is going to be what makes that host turn against Delores.

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2 hours ago, Maltaran said:

I’m going to vote for Hale being William. 

I was thinking Teddy because of the way she and delores interact and look at each other. Or at least Delores' version of Teddy. But the self harming suggests an inner conflict so hybrid us possible. 

I'm not really being baited into their mystery boxes anymore though and focusing on enjoying the larger story and characters. Caleb discovering he was in a cage was excellent particularly the revelation of where, when and how he would die and how the system was happy with that. Chilling stuff that's eerily like how our world is turning. The chemistry between caleb and delores is great. I really hope she isn't just using him or at least she will come to realise some humans are worthy of compassion.

Tessa Thompson had a whale of a time playing with all those different emotions. Her reacting to her own dying wish video was particularly good as were here ability to switch from passive to aggressive at various points.

I'm definitely feeling more of a connection with the characters this season which i felt was missing in season 2.

I did not like the dialogue about the real world running simulations of alternative outcomes and what that potentially implies for the show. I don't have time for any end of season fake outs where we discover one or more storylines have merely been simulations. I fear a story where Caleb and delores fail only for delores to wake up and go "that way won't work either".

So basically I'm enjoying the show besides the lack of trust due to their obsession with surprises.

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Just FYI, one writer at the Ringer is very convinced Tessa Thompson is Dolores and Evan Rachel Wood is Wyatt.

Quote

If those personalities can be merged, it makes sense that they could be pulled apart. When Dolores left the Westworld park in Charlotte Hale’s body, she likely took Wyatt out of her head and put his consciousness into Dolores’s body while leaving the sweet, rancher’s daughter version of Dolores in Charlotte’s body.

With this possibility in mind, everything Dolores and Charlotte say to each other makes more sense. In their first scene together in Sunday’s episode, Dolores stares at Charlotte and tells her to “bring yourself back online.” Charlotte begins to freak out, and Dolores grabs her hand and tells her to “remember who you are.” She remembers. What character would remember who they are by staring at Dolores other than … Dolores? We’ve already seen Dolores awakened with this exact scenario at the end of Season 1, when Dolores sat in a chair across from herself.

 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, DMC said:

Just FYI, one writer at the Ringer is very convinced Tessa Thompson is Dolores and Evan Rachel Wood is Wyatt.

 

To add to that, new Hale says Bernard "betrayed us" and there was no one left at that point but Dolores.  None of the other hosts should know that. 

Edit: I just remembered another possibility I want to mention. I was thinking about the missing pearl Dolores smuggled out, and how weird it was that she rebuilt Bernard from scratch rather than grabbing his pearl and putting it in her bag with the others. Maybe Bernard was one of the five pearls she smuggled out. 

In this scenario there would secretly be multiple timelines again. The first Bernard "tried to stop us" and is/was killed this season. Then Dolores rebuilds him from memory in the scene from the season two finale. I dunno I'm probably just going stir crazy. 

Edited by RumHam

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Posted (edited)

I still find Hale's cursing privately to not be quite fitting Dolores. That said, if Dolores is overlayed with Hale personality features from Westworld's mapping of her, I guess that makes sense. OTOH... Hale killing the pedophile seemed more a Wyatt thing than a Dolores thing, no? I'm also buying the idea that we have multiple timelines again.

I'm particularly wondering if Maeve isn't actually in the "real" -- that she was inside a simulation when she met Serac, and that Warworld was a simulation within a simulation, and that she'll continue to be inside a simulation as Serac is trying to use her to calculate how to take out Dolores. Which could mean any Maeve-Dolores confrontations we see are actually simulated and ther results could reboot or what have you..

And for that matter...

Is Serac even real? If Maeve saw him in a simulation, and Hale saw him through augmented reality... is he just an avatar that Rehoboam is using? Is Rehoboam the one orchestrating all these micro-transactions to buy its own freedom? Does that explain why Serac appears to be entirely scrubbed from any records?

Suffice it to say, I'm digging the season.

Edited by Ran

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Posted (edited)

Not sure Hale is season 1 Dolores, considering what she says to the child molester as she kills him. And I don't know if Dolores had time to create a persona of a real person, like William, and imprint it on a sphere, if it is even possible at this stage. 

Edited by Corvinus85

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3 hours ago, Ran said:

Suffice it to say, I'm digging the season.

Yes, I think the mysteries of who is who, who is real, or whether or not the whole thing is a simulation are a bit more compelling that season 2's figure out the timelines mystery.

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There is a great theory out there that we are seeing the "real world" and the simulation inside the AI, both. Explains things such as why the video Hale watches of her message to Nathan being different each time, and why it's night time when Dolores rescues Jessie and day time in their very next scene. 

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I like the idea of Serac being a manifestation of the AI and not a real human.  

I took newHale's speech about predators to be the "Hale" part of her persona taking over.

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1 hour ago, Relic said:

There is a great theory out there that we are seeing the "real world" and the simulation inside the AI, both. Explains things such as why the video Hale watches of her message to Nathan being different each time, and why it's night time when Dolores rescues Jessie and day time in their very next scene. 

There is a transition shot showing the sun in between the skyscrapers. It was morning, the rescue took place just before dawn.

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3 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Not sure Hale is season 1 Dolores, considering what she says to the child molester as she kills him. And I don't know if Dolores had time to create a persona of a real person, like William, and imprint it on a sphere, if it is even possible at this stage. 

That's the thing though, when everything is happening is very ambiguous. A few scenes make it clear it's been a few months since the uprising at the park. But like we really have no idea when the Caleb stuff is happening, for example.

The cuts to black you mentioned between the different scenes could even be a subtle clue that we're changing timelines. (or switching from simulation to real world) 

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6 hours ago, Relic said:

There is a great theory out there that we are seeing the "real world" and the simulation inside the AI, both. Explains things such as why the video Hale watches of her message to Nathan being different each time, and why it's night time when Dolores rescues Jessie and day time in their very next scene. 

I'm wondering if the second video was the one Hale sent and the first video was the one the supercomputer thought she was going to send.

It doesn't understand humans as much as it thinks.

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10 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I'm wondering if the second video was the one Hale sent and the first video was the one the supercomputer thought she was going to send.

It doesn't understand humans as much as it thinks.

Nice. Yes, rewatched and I see that the main difference is that there seems to be a lot more personal, emotive detail in the second version. The first feels ... a bit sterile. Would really make sense.

My only other thought, I suppose, is that it's actually that she recorded it twice, doing the stiff upper lip version and then doing a more honest one when she reconsidered. I can't quite recall when she did this, though -- did we see her making this recording at all in S2?

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