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Tywin Manderly

UK Politics: Life in the Johnsonian Dystopia

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, A wilding said:

That is not to say that that the Labour hierarchy did not contain many anti-Corbynites, but the evidence that Corbyn was actively trying hard to root out antisemitsm but that his attempts were being deliberately sabotaged is somewhat lacking.

I think the situation will eventually shake out as having been a perfect storm of events taking place at the same time:

  1. There was and is a real problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party.
  2. Corbyn believed there was a real but small problem which was being blown out of proportion by people opposed to his leadership, which meant he took the real problem less seriously than it warranted.
  3. The right-wing press saw antisemitism as a weapon they could use against Corbyn (and an excellent distraction from Baroness Warsi's investigation into Islamaphobia within the Conservative Party, which seems to rival or exceed the antisemitism issue in Labour). The left-wing press, who was also mostly hostile to Corbyn (not the right kind of left-wing leader), effectively joined this campaign as well.
  4. People within the Labour Party opposed to Corbyn, having been defeated in every other attempt to oust Corbyn, also weaponised the issue of antisemitism to try to oust him, most notably after the 2017 election.
  5. Nevertheless, there was and is a real problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party, the extent of which was becoming increasingly hard to determine due to media outcry, anti-Corbynistas making claims and Corbyn and his supporters downplaying because they felt the issue had been blown out of proportion.

Separating the real issue of antisemitism from the use of every dirty trick in the book against Corbyn to get rid of him and undermine him from all sides will likely be very difficult. It could be a really huge issue that was dangerously downplayed or it could be a really small issue that was ludicrously blown up. The real question will be to what extent it will be used against Starmer as well in the future.

Edited by Werthead

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My hope is that with Corbyn gone, a lot of the type of people who joined the Labour party because of him will drop off. The far lefty Trotsky types who would be more inclined to anti semitic conspiracy theory and rabid anti Israel rhetoric might just lose interest and go off and do their own thing somewhere else. Starmer at that point wouldn't have so much to worry about, and I think it will be very hard to attack Starmer on anti semitism. 

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18 hours ago, Isis said:

The vast majority of people I have seen using PPE while on the streets or in shops are MIS-USING it.

They are not truly protecting themselves (or others - but I am sure that protecting others isn't their intent anyway). Nor are they protecting their vulnerable loved ones. Once you don your PPE you need to practice aseptic technique. If you take you mask off to move it around your hands must be clean - as in, they must not have touched anything else that isn't clean. That includes your clothes, your phone, your keys, your front door, the door of a shop, anything on shelf in a shop, any handles/bars/rails/buttons in public spaces, card readers...basically nothing in public spaces is clean. As soon as you touch something in public your hands are no longer clean.

Same with gloves - you wash your hands and then don your gloves - so now your hands are protected from the dirty outside world. That is true if you removed the gloves after touching something. But if you didn't, and you kept touching your clothes, face, hair, phone, car, handbag,  wallet etc with your gloves on then you might as well have not worn gloves at all.

Could individuals gain some protection from wearing PPE properly and disposing of it appropriately? Possibly yes. But the mask dangling while someone smokes a cigarette, the gloved hand using the smartphone - these are far, far more common usages of PPE right now. These offer no protection. In fact, there is evidence to show that people get a false sense of security from wearing PPE (badly) and behave in a more risky way.

Becoming an expert in the field of infectious diseases takes years of study and practical experience. Learning how to correctly use a face mask and gloves does not.

As I've said before, I am responsible for the day-to-day care of my elderly mum and my disabled brother. We all have to eat. I literally have nightmares about bringing this thing home to my brother, or into my Mum's house.

So, since mid-Feb, when things started going bad in Italy, I've basically been on lock-down, doing my best to practice aseptic technique whenever I leave the house. I think I've gotten pretty obsessive good at it. My mask is FFP3 rated, with a checkable, airtight seal. I also wear safety goggles and headphones in the shops. 

In addition to taking the cautionary steps you noted, when returning home from the shops, I remove my clothes and converse in my front door airlock, and they all go straight in the washing machine. Goggles, mask, headphones, car key, all cleaned with surgical wipes and not touched again for a week.

Nothing I am doing is preventing Matt Hancock from procuring what the NHS needs, yet I get the feeling that when all this is over, and countless NHS staff have died due to inadequate PPE, the blame will be shifted to people like me doing their amateurish best to protect the ones they love. 

Bit like what happened post 2008.

 

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2 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Becoming an expert in the field of infectious diseases takes years of study and practical experience. Learning how to correctly use a face mask and gloves does not.

As I've said before, I am responsible for the day-to-day care of my elderly mum and my disabled brother. We all have to eat. I literally have nightmares about bringing this thing home to my brother, or into my Mum's house.

So, since mid-Feb, when things started going bad in Italy, I've basically been on lock-down, doing my best to practice aseptic technique whenever I leave the house. I think I've gotten pretty obsessive good at it. My mask is FFP3 rated, with a checkable, airtight seal. I also wear safety goggles and headphones in the shops. 

In addition to taking the cautionary steps you noted, when returning home from the shops, I remove my clothes and converse in my front door airlock, and they all go straight in the washing machine. Goggles, mask, headphones, car key, all cleaned with surgical wipes and not touched again for a week.

Nothing I am doing is preventing Matt Hancock from procuring what the NHS needs, yet I get the feeling that when all this is over, and countless NHS staff have died due to inadequate PPE, the blame will be shifted to people like me doing their amateurish best to protect the ones they love. 

Bit like what happened post 2008.

 

I’m not sure why you are constantly taking these posts as a personal attack? Nobody appears to be accusing you of anything. If you are using equipment properly... great, well done. There are other people who aren’t.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I’m not sure why you are constantly taking these posts as a personal attack? Nobody appears to be accusing you of anything. If you are using equipment properly... great, well done. There are other people who aren’t.

Huh? I don't feel under attack personally. Having said that, a stranger gave me the stink eye and called me a selfish cunt in Sainsburys the other day. He was carrying a copy of The Sun.

 

Edited by Spockydog

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Posted (edited)

Aren’t households hosting someone in the vulnerable category entitled to priority home delivery? 

‘Cause I’m immune suppressed, I’m classed as such, and got a letter with various jnfo, advising me not to go out at al, and of vsrious schemes to get food etx delivered.

I’ve been off the meds for a few weeks and white cell count is hopefully back to normal so I’ve not used any of this (as likely to get  it from my nurse wife anyway than at the shops).

Albeit ny letter is from Scottish Government; should be the same though in England.

Unless the Westminster advice is which colour bin to chuck your dead into and which day of the week the council will collect it.

Given thr country’s WW2 fetish, surprised the old WW2 gasmasks haven’t been hauled out and dusted off, asbestos be damned

Edited by Derfel Cadarn

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Just now, Spockydog said:

A stranger gave me the stink eye and called me a selfish cunt in Sainsburys the other day. He was carrying a copy of The Sun.

 

So?

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1 minute ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Aren’t households hosting someone in the vulnerable category entitled to priority home delivery? 

‘Cause I’m immune suppressed, I’m classed as such, and got a letter with various jnfo, advising me not to go out at al, and of vsrious schemes to get food etx delivered.

I’ve been off the meds for a few weeks and white cell count is hopefully back to normal so I’ve not used any of this (as likely to get  it from my nurse wife anyway than at the shops).

Albeit ny letter is from Scottish Government; should be the same though in England.

Unless the Westminster advice is which colour bin to chuck your dead into and which day of the week the council will collect it.

Yeah we have that in England, I know I can’t sign up to Sainsburys deliveries right now. I moved in with my elderly parent and am doing shopping for them and for my elderly family members elsewhere and I am not sure how you sign up for them, they have a way of identifying who is eligible. Doesn’t matter as I’m doing all their shopping anyway 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Yeah we have that in England, I know I can’t sign up to Sainsburys deliveries right now. I moved in with my elderly parent and am doing shopping for them and for my elderly family members elsewhere and I am not sure how you sign up for them, they have a way of identifying who is eligible. Doesn’t matter as I’m doing all their shopping anyway 

The CHI number I’m guessing, since that’s on the letter, and the vulnerable list came from the NHS

Edit: got txt from wife- she spent the morning getting fitted for a mask. And also will be kept on this afternoon and has been working every day if the long easter weekend (as well as before and after it). 

I almost had a panic attack thinking today was Sunday and I had another day alone at the mercy of my 19 month old. She’s now discovered thr concept of doors leading outside, and already harrangued me into two spells outside (when it was cold).

But thankfully she’s at nursery tomorrow and I can have a rest workjng from home :)

Edited by Derfel Cadarn

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Aren’t households hosting someone in the vulnerable category entitled to priority home delivery? 

‘Cause I’m immune suppressed, I’m classed as such, and got a letter with various jnfo, advising me not to go out at al, and of vsrious schemes to get food etx delivered.

I’ve been off the meds for a few weeks and white cell count is hopefully back to normal so I’ve not used any of this (as likely to get  it from my nurse wife anyway than at the shops).

Albeit ny letter is from Scottish Government; should be the same though in England.

Unless the Westminster advice is which colour bin to chuck your dead into and which day of the week the council will collect it.

My brother has a severe mental disability. He's on the highest level of PIP and in the ESA Support Group. Because I am his carer, I get a letter from the doctor every year, telling me to have my flu jab. Because of my role, I do not have to pay for this.

Yet, unfortunately, as far as the Government and Supermarkets are concerned, there are no mental disabilities that meet the criteria for classification as vulnerable. 

I have written to my MP, Bambos Charalambous, for help.

Edited by Spockydog

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

So?

So, in this country, when things go to shit, those responsible usually try to blame somebody else.

When the bankers committed The Robbery of the Century in 2008, who got the blame?

Despite blanket news coverage, showing everyone it wos the bankers wot did it, in the following years, newspapers that you like to read decided to blame the misery of austerity on immigrants and benefit claimants and anyone else who was démon de jour.

And, lo and behold, a bunch of boneheaded, impressionable morons sucked that shit up, like a mange-ridden dog eating its own vomit. 

 

Edited by Spockydog

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Edit: got txt from wife- she spent the morning getting fitted for a mask.

Good news. Glad to hear it.

Edited by Spockydog

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8 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

So, in this country, when things go to shit, those responsible usually try to blame somebody else.

When the bankers committed The Robbery of the Century in 2008, who got the blame?

Despite blanket news coverage, showing everyone it wos the bankers wot did it, in the following years, newspapers that you like to read decided to blame the misery of austerity on immigrants and benefit claimants and anyone else who was démon de jour.

And, lo and behold, a bunch of boneheaded, impressionable morons sucked that shit up, like a mange-ridden dog eating its own vomit. 

 

er.... ok then.. 

*backs away slowly* 

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2 hours ago, Werthead said:

I agree the messaging on wearing face masks is all over the place and seems to be radically different from country to country,

This is the problem. I think the govt's communication throughout this has been woeful. In addition, as you've said the different guidelines on masks doesn't help - I'm sure people are aware of the CDC recommendation of wearing a cloth mask in places with significant community transmission - if people have read that, it's understandable that they've chosen to wear PPE even if they've been advised not to.

It's not great given the NHS is still consistently short of PPE.

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Posted (edited)

In shocking developments, senior WHO Covid-19 guy, ignoring the advice of Westerios.org's army of armchair experts, advocates the wearing of face masks in public. Dr David Nabarro said today:

Quote

Because this virus isn't going to go away, and we don't know whether people who have had the virus stay immune afterwards and will not get it again.

We don't know when we will have a vaccine. So, what we are saying is get societies defended.

Yes, we will have to wear masks. Yes, there will have to be more physical distancing. Yes, we must protect the vulnerable.

Bah. Who needs experts?

Edited by Spockydog

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6 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

In shocking developments, senior WHO Covid-19 guy, ignoring the advice of Westerios.org's army of armchair experts, advocates the wearing of face masks in public. Dr David Nabarro said today:

Bah. Who needs experts?

Did he say 'use PPE even if your countries medical staff cant get access to adequate supplies' though? 

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to be fair, most countries that require or encourage wearing masks don’t want you to wear PPE, just any kind of home-made face covering.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Did he say 'use PPE even if your countries medical staff cant get access to adequate supplies' though? 

That's got nothing to do with it. The government flat out said it was too expensive to stockpile this stuff. If Matt Hancock wants, he can go onto Amazon and buy a few boxes of the gloves I bought myself the other day.

This entire conversation has basically been, "Why are you using this stuff? You're probably using it wrong and it won't protect you anyway. And while we're at it, your life isn't as important as someone who works in the NHS."

I've got nothing but love for the NHS, they saved my life, but the notion that their lives are worth more than mine, or my Mum's, is abhorrent.

Should I ignore the availability of gloves on Amazon, and FFP3 masks from Wickes, and risk my life and that of my Mum's by going down the shops bareback, just because we're governed by a bunch of incompetent, corrupt bastards? 

Is that what you're saying?

 

Edited by Spockydog

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4 minutes ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

to be fair, most countries that require or encourage wearing masks don’t want you to wear PPE, just any kind of home-made face covering.

Which won't do jack shit if you walk into an enclosed space an hour after someone with Covid-19 has had a coughing fit. 

 

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an hour? I thought the virus only stays up for a few minutes at the most. But anyway, it’s not to protect you, it’s to protect others from your coughing fit.

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