Who Pays the Coronaman? - Covid #8

[Jen'ari]

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Turns out my girlfried (and thus I, too) are fine. She got tested yesterday and got her negative results this morning.

Must be a huge relief for you both, I’m glad you’re ok .

2 hours ago, Triskele said:

Got some Soma you can send me?  

I’ve got you 

 

[Mudguard]

2 hours ago, Castellan said:

At some stage in the information stream here in Australia someone (not sure who) stated explicitly the masks are not being recommended because they don't want to encourage a run on them when health workers need them.

Tthere is one company in Australia that manufactures masks and they have two machines (plus one that was mothballed) and supply 5% of the Australian market. They have been asked to up their output and supplied wth defence force staff. Hard to imagine it can make much impact.

Yeah, so just ask people to make their own.  It's just there to catch droplets. You can tie a strip of cloth around your mouth and nose.  That would be better than coughing into your elbow.  Ran shared a site that listed instructions for a bunch of diy masks.  There is no good reason to recommend coughing into your elbow when everyone has the ability to wear some sort of facial covering.  

[Mudguard]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

This was a very interesting thread on the UK response, on how things have been moving since the beginning of the year, on how actions have been determined by modelling but the issue being that the data wasn’t always available.

It should also be stressed that the WHO made some pretty incorrect statements about the virus in Jan, no doubt they were far too trusting of the info coming out of China.

China put Wuhan in lockdown on January 23rd.  At that point, it should have been abundantly obvious that this was an extremely serious disease.  The countries like Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan that took it seriously have had much more success than the countries in the West.  They had the same information as everyone else. 

These countries had much more experience with these types of outbreaks than us, so instead of following their lead, in our Western arrogance, we thought we knew better and could handle things our way.  Even after Wuhan was quarantined, how many of our leaders downplayed the severity of the disease?  I know Trump did, and I'm pretty sure Boris did as well.  And they used that as justification for doing virtually nothing for over a month.

We've seen what works, but we continue to refuse to fully implement these measures, and instead, each time our half measures fail, we act surprised and blame China for our own failure to act. 

[BigFatCoward]

832 deaths in Spain. 

[Winterfell is Burning]

Brazil reached 93 deaths, and yesterday there was the first victim, a 72 year old former host of a kids TV show named Daniel Azulay, who already had leukemia. 

And perhaps even more significantly,  there have been confirmed cases in favelas in Rio now. What makes this extremely significant is that favelas have terrible sanitary conditions, no or almost no access to health care and a demographic density that dwarves almost all the major cities on Earth, so the number of infected should skyrocket in the next weeks.

[Clueless Northman]

4 hours ago, Arakan said:

Yes. Because this escalation was not necessary. Latest February 23rd it got serious in Europe. Anyway. I just want that those who downplayed or outright denied the gravity of the situation will be held accountable. And I cannot stand when facts are ignored to paint a picture which fits my world view. I will tone it down. People are dying right now who could be alive if certain individuals in positions of power were not egomaniacs. 

All governments and WHO as well are guilty as charged. WHO basically stated in late January, after the bloody lockdown, that there was no need to limit international trade and travels. That was downright criminal. Sure, they eventually reacted, but were still slow to declare the pandemic.

Of course, most Western governments were just too happy to put their heads in the sand and act like if there was nothing wrong in the world, and many of them have been way slower than WHO to react, after the virus hit Italy. Still, as far as I'm concerned, WHO leadership is just as incompetent and/or corrupt as European and American governments (or Iranian for that matter).

Granted, the craziness has subsided in many European governments now - Boris Johnson can't really downplay it anymore now that he's self-isolated -, yet is still raging in other places, like some parts of the US political class. Hopefully for Brazil, Bolsonaro will stop acting like a demented fool - fat chance, I know -, and for the US someone will actually tell Trump he might not make it if he catches it, which should push him to act more seriously...

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

10 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Hmmm, don't wanna jinx it, but according to the doc I'm outa the woods and should be back to normal in about a couple of days (presumably with immunity?).
The thing about the bloody Covid-19 is that having trouble breathing is fucking scary so it's easy to have panick attacks (which can send you to the ER). I wasn't afraid to take anxiolytics to deal with that and would recommend a very small dose before going to bed (doctors and pharmacists seem to be all for it in my experience). 1g of paracetamol 3 times a day will help with the aching and various unpleasant sensations (that tickling in the lungs, urgh), as well as vitamins (tablets combining zinc, magnesium and vitamin C seem to be the rage).
Also, having to quit smoking was a pain in the arse though I'm not even a heavy smoker to begin with (1 to 3 cigs a day, already cut to 1 when I saw Italy got hit). Guys, if you smoke, quit now, it doesn't get easier when you're sick, nicotine is a devil. Of course, weed is perfect for confinement, but perhaps consider switching to edibles for a couple of weeks... ?
Anyway, if you're under 50 and have none of the problematic conditions prior to infection it is just like a mild case of the flu. Rest, stay hydrated, and do everything necessary not to contaminate others, since you can easily kill people with a weaker immune system than yours.

God damn you you dirty Frenchman!!!!

Okay, now that I can get the joke out of me, I hope your health situation improves, and that you and your family are safe.

But this comment does force me to ask, has anyone looked at smoking cigs verses  smoking pot and is the exposure the same.

*packs bowls*

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

God damn you you dirty Frenchman!!!!

Okay, now that I can get the joke out of me, I hope your health situation improves, and that you and your family are safe.

But this comment does force me to ask, has anyone looked at smoking cigs verses  smoking pot and is the exposure the same.

*packs bowls*

Theres a theory that one of the reasons Italy's death rate is so high is due to the high level of smoking in the country. No idea how true that is, but I would say that smokers should probably be slapping on as many nicotine patches as possible.

[JoannaL]

4 hours ago, Arakan said:

Yes. Because this escalation was not necessary. Latest February 23rd it got serious in Europe. Anyway. I just want that those who downplayed or outright denied the gravity of the situation will be held accountable. And I cannot stand when facts are ignored to paint a picture which fits my world view. I will tone it down. People are dying right now who could be alive if certain individuals in positions of power were not egomaniacs. 

You are right, leaders in the western countries made (are making) mistakes. I agree that China, south korea had better responses ( we need more to look into this).  But as a fellow German I ask you to not praise our response. we are just one week or two behind the others , we also do not have enough materials (ventilator, breathing mask) and we will also see an incredilbe amount of death. We Europeans should start to work together more closely, our response here is abysmally. We now have some French and Italian patients in our hospitals but we should do much more organisation/coordination together. There is much, which has to be learned and improved, and it is a time to be humble in the face of our collective failure.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 hours ago, Darzin said:

I'm also American and I feel the same way. But I have to say I feel a hell of a lot more confidence in the authorities here then then in the US right now. The local Wuhan government made some pretty bad Chernobyl like mistakes but once the central government figured out what was happening they responded swiftly, and basically put the country on a war footing for two months, both economically and even propaganda wise. There were planes of doctors and nurses being deployed to Wuhan, The Chinese equivalent of the CDC is basically running Wuhan and Hubei as the local officials were removed. The president went and congratulated lines doctors and nurses the way one does soldiers and held them up as heroes of China. Then everything shut down except grocery stores pharmacies and government ministries.

Now it's under control but opening up will be the real test because I doubt it will be possible to do this again which is why there are still precautions  constant temperature checks when you leave and enter an area and everyone still wearing masks. Unfortunately some cities are not being as strict with the mask thing because if 100% of people are wearing masks when they go out as is the case in the city I'm living in I have a hard time seeing how the virus can spread. I'm hoping the local government keeps that rule in place for a few months at least. 

Interesting. 

I do think that we need a crack down here in the states, but I'm also concerned what that could lead to. Anyways, I appreciate getting some perspective from China, just as a cough like crazy....

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 hours ago, Triskele said:

Got some Soma you can send me?  

I'm assuming this requires me to have actually read the book?

If it makes you feel better, it's in the stack of like 15 I've got on my desk or bedside table. 

[Arakan]

7 minutes ago, JoannaL said:

You are right, leaders in the western countries made (are making) mistakes. I agree that China, south korea had better responses ( we need more to look into this).  But as a fellow German I ask you to not praise our response. we are just one week or two behind the others , we also do not have enough materials (ventilator, breathing mask) and we will also see an incredilbe amount of death. We Europeans should start to work together more closely, our response here is abysmally. We now have some French and Italian patients in our hospitals but we should do much more organisation/coordination together. There is much, which has to be learned and improved, and it is a time to be humble in the face of our collective failure.

The reckoning for our politicians will come as well. At least they ramped up their game at the end of February. And at least they are capable of learning (adoption of SK strategy for the mid-term). 
 

Ventilator Production has been ramping up. Hopefully the new supply will come ASAP. Drägerwerk from Lübeck, one of the best in the world in ventilators is producing 24/7. They signed support contracts with Daimler. A lot of things are done, but silently. Professionally. We do not need a Bundeskanzlerin who via Twitter orders VW or BMW to start producing something they have no idea about. Professionals do their jobs and the less you hear about it, the better. 
 

Biggest issue still is PPE, masks, gloves etc. F

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Mudguard said:

Yeah, so just ask people to make their own.  It's just there to catch droplets. You can tie a strip of cloth around your mouth and nose.  That would be better than coughing into your elbow.  Ran shared a site that listed instructions for a bunch of diy masks.  There is no good reason to recommend coughing into your elbow when everyone has the ability to wear some sort of facial covering.  

You mean well, but I'm not sure this is a good idea. Nurses have told me these don't really do much to help while making people more reassured that they can go back to normal right away. We need to nationalize every factory capable that currently isn't essential and put five billion of these mother fucking masks on the shelves right now. 

[Rippounet]

36 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

But this comment does force me to ask, has anyone looked at smoking cigs verses  smoking pot and is the exposure the same.

*packs bowls*

In my experience, once sick your lungs don't want anything in them whether it's green or brown, sorry man.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Brazil reached 93 deaths, and yesterday there was the first victim, a 72 year old former host of a kids TV show named Daniel Azulay, who already had leukemia. 

And perhaps even more significantly,  there have been confirmed cases in favelas in Rio now. What makes this extremely significant is that favelas have terrible sanitary conditions, no or almost no access to health care and a demographic density that dwarves almost all the major cities on Earth, so the number of infected should skyrocket in the next weeks.

My friend, have you read my warnings in this thread about Brazil? 

 

35 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Theres a theory that one of the reasons Italy's death rate is so high is due to the high level of smoking in the country. No idea how true that is, but I would say that smokers should probably be slapping on as many nicotine patches as possible.

But that doesn't answer the weed question. That's why I'm wake and baking to a blunt and then forcing myself to not smoke until I need to go to bed. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

In my experience, once sick your lungs don't want anything in them whether it's green or brown, sorry man.

Yeah, sadly see below. Halfway through a fatty then only going to smoke a tiny bit at night when I want to go to bed. This will be the last of the recreational use for some time, although I'm sure I'll not abide by that completely. 

I have learned though that without sports, I really don't drink beer that much. Will have to find my core pot trigger. 

[Spockydog]

 

6 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

While I dont necessarily disagree with you, during the pandemic is not the time to judge success or failure. 

One thing we can judge, right now, is the decision taken by Jeremy Hunt's Department of Health, in 2017, to deny NHS staff the required equipment to protect themselves during a pandemic, because it cost too much.

Advice on protective gear for NHS staff was rejected owing to cost

Quote

 

The Department of Health rejected high-level medical advice about providing NHS staff with certain protective equipment during an influenza pandemic because stockpiling it would be too expensive, the Guardian can reveal.

Documents show that officials working under former health secretary Jeremy Hunt told medical advisers three years ago to “reconsider” a formal recommendation that eye protection should be provided to all healthcare professionals who have close contact with pandemic influenza patients.

The expert advice was watered down after an “economic assessment” found a medical recommendation about providing visors or safety glasses to all hospital, ambulance and social care staff who have close contact with pandemic influenza patients would “substantially increase” the costs of stockpiling.

The documents may help explain a devastating shortage of protective gear in the NHS that is hampering efforts by medical staff to manage the Covid-19 virus pandemic.

 

Despite his smug, brass-necked criticisms of Bozo's handling of this crisis, Jeremy Hunt bears huge responsibility for the lack of NHS preparedness. He should just stfu.

[JoannaL]

11 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Hmmm, don't wanna jinx it, but according to the doc I'm outa the woods and should be back to normal in about a couple of days (presumably with immunity?).
The thing about the bloody Covid-19 is that having trouble breathing is fucking scary so it's easy to have panick attacks (which can send you to the ER). I wasn't afraid to take anxiolytics to deal with that and would recommend a very small dose before going to bed (doctors and pharmacists seem to be all for it in my experience). 1g of paracetamol 3 times a day will help with the aching and various unpleasant sensations (that tickling in the lungs, urgh), as well as vitamins (tablets combining zinc, magnesium and vitamin C seem to be the rage).
Also, having to quit smoking was a pain in the arse though I'm not even a heavy smoker to begin with (1 to 3 cigs a day, already cut to 1 when I saw Italy got hit). Guys, if you smoke, quit now, it doesn't get easier when you're sick, nicotine is a devil. Of course, weed is perfect for confinement, but perhaps consider switching to edibles for a couple of weeks... ?
Anyway, if you're under 50 and have none of the problematic conditions prior to infection it is just like a mild case of the flu. Rest, stay hydrated, and do everything necessary not to contaminate others, since you can easily kill people with a weaker immune system than yours.

Did you have fever and coughing? I ask because I had the same symptomes you describe (problem breathing, strange feeelings in the lungs) but since I had no coughing/fever I was unsure if it could be covid-19. It felt diffrent though from any cold/flu I had before (milder than a flu but scary). While I had it, I prayed that it is not the coronavirus. Now though, since I am feeling well again (and my family is healthy as well) I pray that it was the virus ( and I can visite my elderly mother again soon).

Another good thing is that if this was the virus (is this even possible without fever?) I did not infect anyone since I and my family were at home in quarantine (due to an order of our city that everyone comeing back  not only from different countries but also different german states (in my case bavaria) had to quaratine for two weeks).

[Mudguard]

28 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You mean well, but I'm not sure this is a good idea. Nurses have told me these don't really do much to help while making people more reassured that they can go back to normal right away. We need to nationalize every factory capable that currently isn't essential and put five billion of these mother fucking masks on the shelves right now. 

You're telling me that coughing into your elbow is better than covering your mouth and nose with a cloth wrapping for reducing spread of droplets?  Coughing into your elbow is a really low bar to beat.  And who says anything about going back to normal?  This should be used while remaining under quarantine and all the other measures like staying 6 feet apart.  As you well know from personal experience, people violate that rule all the time, and it has nothing to do with wearing a mask or not.  People still need to go to the supermarket to get food, and to reduce the spread of droplets, cover their damn mouth and nose. 

Those nurses are just repeating one of the reasons listed by the CDC and WHO for their mask policy.  Look how well their recommendations have worked.  Both agencies we're against quarantine too until it was quickly obvious that their recommendations were wholly inadequate.

Meanwhile, medical experts from China are urging the West to reconsider their policy on mass mask usage by the general populace.  This open letter was published in the Lancet, a highly reputable medical journal.

Quote

Global shortage of disposable surgical masks is a real and expanding problem. So-called mass mask panic has occured irrespective of advice from public health authorities. Panic buying of masks in Hong Kong has gone unresolved for more than 30 days, and a similar situation seems to be developing in Italy. People wear masks to protect themselves in close person-to-person contacts, but unintentionally, they are protecting each other through source control. Disposable surgical masks and their technical specifications were designed specifically for the protection of health-care workers during occupational exposures. Cloth masks were used by surgeons successfully during operations before disposable masks were available. In real life, most people in all seriously affected areas are reusing their disposable masks. All governments must prepare to handle the probable mass panic and explore other sustainable alternatives to the disposable masks for effective source control in community settings.

So until we have enough masks for everyone, just using a diy facial covering is a lot better than nothing. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

You're telling me that coughing into your elbow is better than covering your mouth and nose with a cloth wrapping for reducing spread of droplets?  Coughing into your elbow is a really low bar to beat.  And who says anything about going back to normal?  This should be used while remaining under quarantine and all the other measures like staying 6 feet apart.  As you well know from personal experience, people violate that rule all the time, and it has nothing to do with wearing a mask or not.  People still need to go to the supermarket to get food, and to reduce the spread of droplets, cover their damn mouth and nose. 

Those nurses are just repeating one of the reasons listed by the CDC and WHO for their mask policy.  Look how well their recommendations have worked.  Both agencies we're against quarantine too until it was quickly obvious that their recommendations were wholly inadequate.

Meanwhile, medical experts from China are urging the West to reconsider their policy on mass mask usage by the general populace.  This open letter was published in the Lancet, a highly reputable medical journal.

So until we have enough masks for everyone, just using a diy facial covering is a lot better than nothing. 

But what is the effectiveness of that, and how is the contamination of them controlled? Sure it's better than nothing, but we are failing people at all levels. 

Are you in a hospital? Because I am, and things are breaking down faster than my idiot managers can handle.

ETA:

And many are people are coughing a lot, including myself. But it feels like I'm the only one who washes their hands after each fit. Many of my coworkers still think this is much to do about nothing.