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Tywin Manderly

Who Pays the Coronaman? - Covid #8

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10 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Don't know how credible this study is and it hasn't been peer reviewed yet, but it attempts to estimate the degree of undercounting positive cases in each country.  Obviously the rate of undercounting varies from country to country, but here's their estimate of "percentage of cases reported". 

South Korea - 77%

US - 15%

UK - 7.5%

Spain - 4.7%

Now I don't fully understand this study, so I'm not vouching for it, but it is a really important issue.  With that estimate, the number of cases in the US is 165k/15% = 1.1 million.  Which IMO sounds low from what other sources I've read, but who knows. 

This study is from a practical POV useless. Intelligent yes but simple speculation without sufficient empirical hard data. Norway and Germany will conduct mass anti body test studies to answer those questions. Big random sample sizes. Then we will see. 

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Just now, sologdin said:

how do low wage countries take advantage of 'us'?

They take our jobs :))). 
South Park

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2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

My point was we have outsourced most of our manufacturing industry to the east because it’s cheaper. Nothing to do with ethics. It’s globalism. Not quite sure what you are proposing to a solution to that.

You don’t get it. Unrestricted capital will move where the highest profit margin can be expected. Unless a few exemptions. This was the case since anno domini. 

Are you free market or not? Do you want to force Apple to produce in the US? Or Pfizer? How do you force them? Surely not with tariffs like the stable genius Trump. Do you want to appeal to their patriotism or what? 

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5 minutes ago, sologdin said:

how do low wage countries take advantage of 'us'?

We pay them to make things 

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20 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Have to see what happens with that, the last similar case of a 21 year old hasn’t been verified and has doubts about it from what I can tell.

That's true but in that sad case there was no test for COVID-19 and the death wasn't actually in the official figures. 

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Just now, Arakan said:

You don’t get it. Unrestricted capital will move where the highest profit margin can be expected. Unless a few exemptions. This was the case since anno domini. 

Are you free market or not? Do you want to force Apple to produce in the US? Or Pfizer? How do you force them? Surely not with tariffs like the stable genius Trump. Do you want to appeal to their patriotism or what? 

We could force Apple to make iPhones in the US , as long as we are all prepared to spend an extra thousand dollars on them

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Just now, Heartofice said:

We pay them to make things 

So wage payment is taking advantage of someone. I admit that English is not my native tongue but AFAIK „to take advantage of sth./sb.“ has a different meaning. But continue its great. 

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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

We could force Apple to make iPhones in the US , as long as we are all prepared to spend an extra thousand dollars on them

Ok, I understand. You want Apple to make their already exorbitant expensive products (technical POV) even more expensive as long as they promise you to produce in the US? Interesting. Why should Apple do this? Do you call for a boycott if they don’t do it? Do you then as next step threaten people who ignore the boycott? Do you forbid the selling of Apple products in the US? You seem to be a proponent of „free market“ but lack some basic knowledge of how markets work. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Arakan said:

Ok, I understand. You want Apple to make their already exorbitant expensive products (technical POV) even more expensive as long as they promise you to produce in the US? Interesting. Why should Apple do this? Do you call for a boycott if they don’t do it? Do you then as next step threaten people who ignore the boycott? Do you forbid the selling of Apple products in the US? You seem to be a proponent of „free market“ but lack some basic knowledge of how markets work. 

I was simply pointing out that forcing Apple to make their products in say the US , if if that were in any way possible, would cause enormous cost to the consumer. Seems we are agreeing. I was simply replying to your post. You seem to be the critic of free market capitalism, so I was asking what your solution is.

Anyway, this is mostly completely off topic so I'll just leave it there.

Edited by Heartofice

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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

I was simply pointing out that forcing Apple to make their products in say the US , if if that were in any way possible, would cause enormous cost to the consumer. Seems we are agreeing. I was simply replying to your post. You seem to be the critic of free market capitalism, so I was asking what your solution is.

Anyway, this is mostly completely off topic so I'll just leave it there.

The only solution is a regulation of the market. „Free“ market with strictly defined game rules. It is only directly OT, not indirectly. See the price spikes in certain pharmaceutical products due to the pandemic. But yes, an interesting discussion but maybe the wrong thread. I‘ll leave it too. 

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19 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

We pay them to make things 

dunno about 'we.' you mean that the manufacturers who employ these persons in low wage countries pay the employees aforesaid low wages and then sell those low wage products to importers or wholesalers who then sell them to retailers who in turn sell them to ultimate purchaser-users in the not-low-wage countries?

but is receipt of a wage, no matter how low, taking advantage of someone? i suppose there is a conceptual instability here.

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