How likely is a Jon/Sansa match (aka Jonsa)?

[chrisdaw]

Unlikely but not impossible as a political marriage, after Tyrion dies and Jon takes the South.

[Dot Com]

9 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

Unlikely but not impossible as a political marriage, after Tyrion dies and Jon takes the South.

What scenario(s) do you see as likely? Broadly speaking. 

[chrisdaw]

16 minutes ago, Dot Com said:

What scenario(s) do you see as likely? Broadly speaking. 

Tyrion and Sansa will rule, Jon will defeat them when he comes south. Tyrion will die. Jon will then have to bind the wounds of the realm with marriages and alliances to make it whole so that they can face the Others together. Winning the peace I think GRRM has termed it on occasion. Defeated as she will be, master player Sansa, Tyrion's widowed queen with attachments to many houses will speak for much of the south, and KITN Jon most the rest of the realm. Together they will broker a bunch of marriages that ends their war and puts things back together, uniting the realm so that they may fight the war for the dawn as one. Basically the hour of the wolf part 2.

Jon and Sansa may marry, setting the example of what they'll be trying to do realm wide, bygones be bygones, old enemies are new allies, etc. They won't make themselves king and queen though. And Jon is going to die soon after anyway.

[Mystical]

I'm not sure there is any forshadowing  pointing towards it. So I'd say not likely. But I'm pretty sure the popularity of the ship is almost entirely down to the abomination-that-shall-not-be-named. Not saying there wasn't any book!Jon/Sansa supporters before but not to the extend there was the last few years.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Woah. Seven pages in ten hours. I guess r/freefolk aren't the only one who get all hot and bothered by Jonsa.

I have come across very few Jonsa shippers over the years, personally. They seem to be mostly limited to tumblr, and honestly: let people ship who they want. There are far worse crackships out there.

If there's a ship that many Sansa fans care about, it's SanSan, which does have textual evidence. 

The Jonsa theory seems to rest on a combination of the Ashford Suitor Theory and the 1993 outline. It's more likely, in my opinion, that the Targ suitor from the Ashford Theory is fAegon, who I predict will channel his (alleged) father by marrying a Martell (Arianne) only to then become infatuated with a Stark (Sansa). He may even try to marry both of them; we've been hearing about Targ polygamy since AGOT, but we haven't seen it since Maegor the Cruel.

Regardless, I fully support the interpretation that incest is a metaphor for elitism, and that it will only lead to destruction. Even Jaehaerys and Alysanne, Westeros' most famous power couple, had to suffer through outliving ten of their thirteen children (eleven in Jaehaerys' case). I don't see the Starks having that fate.

[McGuv19]

Personally I don’t believe Jonsa at all since

1. Ew, incest

2. Most of the evidence I have read on this thread is IMO circumstantial and does not necessarily point to Jonsa taking place. For example, the bit about Jon killing Slynt has been answered by multiple posters saying that Slynt only got beheaded because the fans thought it would be better if Jon executed him like a Stark. Also, I think proximity of chapters means next to nothing, especially since they would get shuffled around a lot during writing.

I think Jon/Arya is just as likely if not more so.

[Elegant Woes]

46 minutes ago, McGuv19 said:

I think Jon/Arya is just as likely if not more so

What makes it more viable. Please elaborate. 

[Nagini's Neville]

6 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The Jonsa theory seems to rest on a combination of the Ashford Suitor Theory and the 1993 outline. 

I really don't understand how the Ashford Theory stood the test of time. It's just so obviously false! An Arryn is missing! Lysa Arryn wanted Sansa to marry Sweetrobin, the same way the Tyrells wanted her to marry Willas.

" “A child?” said Sansa, uncertainly. Lysa waved a hand negligently. “Not for many years. You are too young to be a mother. One day you shall want children, though. Just as you will want to marry.”

“I … I am married, my lady.” “Yes, but soon a widow. Be glad the Imp preferred his whores. It would not be fitting for my son to take that dwarf’s leavings, but as he never touched you … How would you like to marry your cousin, the Lord Robert?” " "I see no reason why you should not be wed as soon as we know that your Lannister husband is dead. A secret wedding, to be sure. The Lord of the Eyrie could scarcely be thought to have married a bastard, that would not be fitting. The ravens should bring us the word from King’s Landing once the Imp’s head rolls. You and Robert can be wed the next day, won’t that be joyous?"

"Gratitude will better become you, in your present circumstances. Yes, and obedience. My son will have a grateful and obedient wife.” "

Sansa 7, A Storm of Swords

So either GRRM has forgotten that himself or the Ashford Tourney holds no foreshadowing for Sansa's future at all.

 

 

[Nagini's Neville]

2 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

I do like the character. You mostly see him from the perspective of Dany and she’s  constantly like he’s “my bear”, wishing he was there to catch her when she falls in the Dothraki Sea and its made very clear in Dance that she needs/misses him. I think it’s intended to be tragic that two people who love eachother in different ways can’t be together. The age is part of that. It’s another reason them being together is an impossibility. Basically I like him because Dany likes him; despite all the flaws and problems that happen in ASOS. I don’t get the intense dislike among other posters because it doesn’t take into account Danys perspective on Jorah; especially not in ADWD.

I acknowledge that it's also personal preference. I wouldn't call my dislike intense either. I mostly don't really care for him that much. That Dany likes him, is for me not necessarily a good indicator either. Dany has never experienced true, pure, genuine love in her life and out of all the men Dany likes, I probably like Jorah the most (absolutely despised Drogo and strongly dislike Daario as well)

But I do think what Dany thinks of him is important! So you got a good point there!

[Elegant Woes]

@Nagini's Neville Her brief betrothal to little Robert is not included because in order for it to be considered both parties have to be aware of it and Sweetrobin never learns of it. Besides I do think there's validity to Ashford Theory, because there's strong Targaryen imagery in Sansa's chapters. Some people on this board forum speculated she might marry Aegon, but since Sansa is going North the chances she will meet him before he dies (poor kid) very slim. If Sansa married Jon than the theory could be proven right. A small note Valarr Targaryen (suitor in the tourney) had mostly brown hair. A possible hint? Who knows. 

[McGuv19]

36 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

What makes it more viable. Please elaborate. 

I really don’t believe either are/will be true tbh.

[Nagini's Neville]

10 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

@Nagini's Neville Her brief betrothal to little Robert is not included because in order for it to be considered both parties have to be aware of it and Sweetrobin never learns of it. 

She was neither betrothed to Willas nor to Robert. To the bold: what rule is that please? We are talking about potential foreshadowing here after all. I don't think there are universal rules, when it comes to foreshadowing.  But if we go by that logic, we don't know, that Willas learns of it either (we don't have a scene where he does) And I really don't think Sweetrobin, his opinion or knowledge are important in this case

[Elegant Woes]

5 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

She was neither betrothed to Willas nor to Robert. To the bold: what rule is that please? We are talking about potential foreshadowing here after all. I don't think there are universal rules, when it comes to foreshadowing.  But if we go by that logic, we don't know, that Willas learns of it either (we don't have a scene where he does) And I really don't think Sweetrobin, his opinion or knowledge are important in this case

It's not a rule per se but more an assumption on my part. Almost every betrothal in the list both Sansa and the other party are aware of the possible union. Yes so far we don't know if Willas was aware of the possible betrothal between him and Sansa, I guess we have to wait till TWOW where we finally meet him. This theory, however, does not completely hinge on that. I did say that the Targaryen imagery in Sansa's chapters also play a factor in it. 

[Elegant Woes]

18 minutes ago, McGuv19 said:

I really don’t believe either are/will be true tbh.

And yet somehow you believe that Jon/Arya is more likely of the two. Surely there has to be reason why you believe that. 

[McGuv19]

Just now, Elegant Woes said:

And yet somehow you believe that Jon/Arya is more likely of the two. Surely there has to be reason why you believe that. 

Because Jon and Arya at least have actually shown some form of attachment. I think Arya is the person Jon cares most about, and Jon almost never thinks about Sansa. While I agree there is indication Sansa will find her knight in shining armour, I am not convinced at all it will be Jon.

[Nagini's Neville]

12 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

I did say that the Targaryen imagery in Sansa's chapters also play a factor in it. 

Personally I disagree there. I'd say blood and fire are just very common elements in most characters' arc. That just comes with the nature of the events and the setting.

What about Stannis, what about Mel, Davos, Tyrion, Beric, Thoros, Sandor? Just to name a few, in a lot of character arcs blood and fire is much more prominent, than in Sansa's and even if so, I still don't see how that's hinting at a possible romantic connection between Sansa and Jon in the future.

[Elegant Woes]

22 minutes ago, McGuv19 said:

Because Jon and Arya at least have actually shown some form of attachment. I think Arya is the person Jon cares most about, and Jon almost never thinks about Sansa. While I agree there is indication Sansa will find her knight in shining armour, I am not convinced at all it will be Jon.

Not thinking of someone that often is not an indictment of a lack of caring. Ned rarely thinks of Catelyn in AGOT. Does that mean he doesn't care about her? With that said I do think there's certain thoughtlessness on both Jon and Sansa's part when it comes to each other and thoughtlessness makes them the most likely to meet each other. The first Stark reunion will be them of that I am sure. 

[Elegant Woes]

38 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Personally I disagree there. I'd say blood and fire are just very common elements in most characters' arc. That just comes with the nature of the events and the setting.

What about Stannis, what about Mel, Davos, Tyrion, Beric, Thoros, Sandor? Just to name a few, in a lot of character arcs blood and fire is much more prominent, than in Sansa's and even if so, I still don't see how that's hinting at a possible romantic connection between Sansa and Jon in the future.

The reason why I think the Targaryen imagery is significant in Sansa's chapters is because how it's presented. The first imagery begins in her third AGOT chapter and Arya throws a grapefruit at her and soils an ivory dress that was a betrothal gif of Cersei. The second imagery is in her fourth ACOK chapter when Sansa has her first flowering, where blood seeps into the white blanket. The third and last imagery involves in a white cloak with fire and blood that she decides to wear (this one is significant because a maiden accepting a cloak from a man is part of the wedding ceremony in Westeros). What all three of these situations have in common is that the Targaryen imagery always happens on a white/ivory/Snow-like fabric and all these situations involve something that is associated with betrothal, seal of womanhood and marriage. Looking at the pattern it's not hard to assume that Sansa might get romantically involved with a Targaryen. And like I said in my previous post, the most likely person to be that Targaryen suitor is Jon. 

[Elegant Woes]

A small note. I was rereading Sansa's third AGOT chapter today when I searched for the Targaryen imagery and I noticed a certain aspect of the gentle, brave, strong quote that is often ignored:

Quote

"Sweet one," her father said gently, "listen to me. When you're old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who's worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. (Sansa III, AGOT)

Ned doesn't just say he will match Sansa off to someone who is brave and gentle and strong. He explicitly says a high lord. That significantly narrows down the list of suitors for Sansa. There are very few character who fit this criteria. Jon however fits this perfectly. If R + L = J is true then he would be a high lord worthy to be Sansa's match. 

[McGuv19]

50 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

Not thinking of someone that often is not an indictment of a lack of caring. Ned rarely thinks of Catelyn in AGOT. Does that mean he doesn't care about her? With that said I do think there's certain thoughtlessness on both Jon and Sansa's part when it comes to each other and thoughtlessness makes them the most likely to meet each other. The first Stark reunion will be them of that I am sure. 

That doesn’t necessarily point to them becoming romantically involved though. Also, with the thoughtlessness thing, it is just circumstantial. Jon doesn’t think of Catelyn or Theon or Rickon all that much either, and he grew up with them along with Sansa.