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How likely is a Jon/Sansa match (aka Jonsa)?


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12 minutes ago, Elegant Woes said:

A small note. I was rereading Sansa's third AGOT chapter today when I searched for the Targaryen imagery and I noticed a certain aspect of the gentle, brave, strong quote that is often ignored:

Ned doesn't just say he will match Sansa off to someone who is brave and gentle and strong. He explicitly says a high lord. That significantly narrows down the list of suitors for Sansa. There are very few character who fit this criteria. Jon however fits this perfectly. If R + L = J is true then he would be a high lord worthy to be Sansa's match. 

Wasn’t there something up thread about Jon being a king or a prince? It seems to me that all the alleged hints for Jonsa are very malleable, and can be tweaked with so as to better fit the criteria. That’s in part why I don’t think any of these “clues” are actual clues pointing to a romantic relationship between Jon and Sansa. Like the cloak she chooses to wear and which is indeed a symbol, but has nothing at all to do with Jon. Unless, of course, one tweaks  whole passage while ignoring certain aspects of it. The whole thing requires a good dose of mental gymnastics or one's willingness to ignore other aspects of the story and Sansa’s arc. Or both. 

Like all the “snow” references from Sansa’s chapters. People who support Jonsa often use any and all times the word “snow” appears in her chapters as support for a romance between them, and that’s just not the case at all. 

But as w/ other topics, this one won’t see any consensus until we get the last books, and one camp will keep banging on and on about all the clues that are there, and the other about none of those being clues pointing to that at all. 

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1 hour ago, Elegant Woes said:

The reason why I think the Targaryen imagery is significant in Sansa's chapters is because how it's presented. The first imagery begins in her third AGOT chapter and Arya throws a grapefruit at her and soils an ivory dress that was a betrothal gif of Cersei. The second imagery is in her fourth ACOK chapter when Sansa has her first flowering, where blood seeps into the white blanket. The third and last imagery involves in a white cloak with fire and blood that she decides to wear (this one is significant because a maiden accepting a cloak from a man is part of the wedding ceremony in Westeros). What all three of these situations have in common is that the Targaryen imagery always happens on a white/ivory/Snow-like fabric and all these situations involve something that is associated with betrothal, seal of womanhood and marriage. Looking at the pattern it's not hard to assume that Sansa might get romantically involved with a Targaryen. And like I said in my previous post, the most likely person to be that Targaryen suitor is Jon. 

well, she got to get her period, that's part of her arc. And I just don't think, whenever something white is mentioned it's supposed to represent Jon Snow. GRRM is usually just much more on the nose with his symbolism, especially given that there is basically no connection between Jon and Sansa.

I know how you feel about Sansa and the Hound dynamic and I agree with a lot of it, but I still think @Lady Gwynhyfvar's cloak theory

is more likely, than these two events being connected to a romantic future of Jon and Sansa. I just don't think just because the cloak is white it represents Jon Snow. Even Sansa in her own thoughts associates the cloak with the Hound - and that just makes more sense, since it's his cloak after all. 

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4 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

@Nagini's Neville Her brief betrothal to little Robert is not included because in order for it to be considered both parties have to be aware of it and Sweetrobin never learns of it. Besides I do think there's validity to Ashford Theory, because there's strong Targaryen imagery in Sansa's chapters. Some people on this board forum speculated she might marry Aegon, but since Sansa is going North the chances she will meet him before he dies (poor kid) very slim. If Sansa married Jon than the theory could be proven right. A small note Valarr Targaryen (suitor in the tourney) had mostly brown hair. A possible hint? Who knows. 

How do you know for sure that Sansa is going north right away? Also, Valarr Targaryen died of an infectious disease (the Spring Sickness). fAegon's closeness to JonCon and his greyscale suggests the same could be true for him. 

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3 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

A small note. I was rereading Sansa's third AGOT chapter today when I searched for the Targaryen imagery and I noticed a certain aspect of the gentle, brave, strong quote that is often ignored:

Ned doesn't just say he will match Sansa off to someone who is brave and gentle and strong. He explicitly says a high lord. That significantly narrows down the list of suitors for Sansa. There are very few character who fit this criteria. Jon however fits this perfectly. If R + L = J is true then he would be a high lord worthy to be Sansa's match. 

Bastards aren't considered high lords tho... Might as well say Gendry too... They aren't close, they never were, they barely think of each other.  Ned does not  think of Cat usually, whenever he does, you can feel the warmth and love.

Doubtful that Sansa can marry a highlord and not wrestle to maintain his name, is far more that she marries a la Podrick than a la Robert Arryn.

 

Quote

The more important question is though: Why does no one ship Sansa and Pod?

Is it because SHe doESnt deSERvE hIM? (have I done this right Master @Lyanna<3Rhaegar Lan Starknobi?)

I just don't see them, honestly i don't understand why Sansa's ships are so gross, guys like Edric Storm or Podrick don't look half as bad whn you compare them to Jon, Tyrion, Sandor and co.

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5 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I really don't understand how the Ashford Theory stood the test of time. It's just so obviously false! An Arryn is missing! Lysa Arryn wanted Sansa to marry Sweetrobin, the same way the Tyrells wanted her to marry Willas.

" “A child?” said Sansa, uncertainly. Lysa waved a hand negligently. “Not for many years. You are too young to be a mother. One day you shall want children, though. Just as you will want to marry.”

“I … I am married, my lady.” “Yes, but soon a widow. Be glad the Imp preferred his whores. It would not be fitting for my son to take that dwarf’s leavings, but as he never touched you … How would you like to marry your cousin, the Lord Robert?” " "I see no reason why you should not be wed as soon as we know that your Lannister husband is dead. A secret wedding, to be sure. The Lord of the Eyrie could scarcely be thought to have married a bastard, that would not be fitting. The ravens should bring us the word from King’s Landing once the Imp’s head rolls. You and Robert can be wed the next day, won’t that be joyous?"

"Gratitude will better become you, in your present circumstances. Yes, and obedience. My son will have a grateful and obedient wife.” "

Sansa 7, A Storm of Swords

So either GRRM has forgotten that himself or the Ashford Tourney holds no foreshadowing for Sansa's future at all.

I think it was the mention of House Hardyng that piqued people's interest. And that it's been almost a decade since that last book came out and we have to find something to speculate on in the meantime.

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5 minutes ago, frenin said:

Bastards aren't considered high lords tho... Might as well say Gendry too...

Doubtful that Sansa can marry a highlord and not wrestle to maintain his name, is far more that she marries a la Podrick than a la Robert Arryn.

 

I just don't see them, honestly i don't understand why Sansa's ships are so gross, guys like Edric Storm or Podrick don't look half as bad whn you compare them to Jon, Tyrion, Sandor and co.

I'd be all for Edric and even more enthusiastically for Pod! But I think the fault lays with GRRM, he puts her with the gross guys. And I personally don't understand Jon and Sansa. But she doesn't have a relationship with Edric or Pod and GRRM is not the kind of writer, that doesn't built those relationships up. He really missed his opportunity here- he could have made it a forbidden love story- the wife and the squire- perfect :D

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1 hour ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I'd be all for Edric and even more enthusiastically for Pod! But I think the fault lays with GRRM, he puts her with the gross guys. And I personally don't understand Jon and Sansa. But she doesn't have a relationship with Edric or Pod and GRRM is not the kind of writer, that doesn't built those relationships up. He really missed his opportunity here- he could have made it a forbidden love story- the wife and the squire- perfect :D

Plus he has her crushing on guys who are jerks; she had a crush on the overconfident and unpleasant Waymar Royce, we all know about Joffrey, and then there's the Hound who belittles her and delights in putting her down.

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34 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Plus he has her crushing on guys who are jerks; she had a crush on the overconfident and unpleasant Waymar Royce, we all know about Joffrey, and then there's the Hound who belittles her and delights in putting her down.

Waymar is a great dude. Haters gonna hate tho.

 

She has a crush on handsome  men, Joffrey was not a jerk to her, but a child from Jaime and Cersei... She has a crush on Loras.

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6 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

The third and last imagery involves in a white cloak with fire and blood that she decides to wear (this one is significant because a maiden accepting a cloak from a man is part of the wedding ceremony in Westeros) [...] And like I said in my previous post, the most likely person to be that Targaryen suitor is Jon. 

Why most likely? You can make a great case for Aegon. Sansa's cloak is covered in "blood and fire" not "fire and blood". The bastard branch of House Targaryen had reverse colours and reverse words could be analgous to that. Sansa wearing the cloak with the "blood and fire" might hint that she will be marrying a Targaryen pretender. This would support the Ashford theory of Sansa's 5 suitors. Before you say that Aegon is not a true Targaryen, Joffrey is not a true Baratheon. Even more, it could be a play on Rhaegar/Lyanna/Elia with the Targaryen ditching a Martell for a Stark.

Or, it could just mean something as mundane and silly as Sansa wearing Sandor Clegane's cloak (twice) and keeping it in a cedar chest (a betrothal item) which in an earlier GRRM work, The Skin Trade, we know means: "...the cedar chest at the foot of the bed. Her mother always used to call it a hope chest. Did little girls still keep hope chests? She didn't think so, at least not around here. Maybe there were still places where hope didn't seem so terribly unrealistic, but this city wasn't one of them [...] Hope chests were where you kept your future, all the little things that were part of the dreams that taught you to dream when you were a child."

 

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10 minutes ago, frenin said:

Waymar is a great dude. Haters gonna hate tho.

 

Are you kidding? First off, this idiot wears the wrong clothes, the wrong shoes, and uses the worst type of horse. Most of his lines are sarcastic jibes at Will and Gared that show how little common sense he has. And he's only given command position because of his father.

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Let's be real. If Sansa and Dunk were alive at the same time, they'd be the OTP to rule them all :D

OTP to rule them all, OTP to find them,

OTP to bring them all and in the darkness bind them...

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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Let's be real. If Sansa and Dunk were alive at the same time, they'd be the OTP to rule them all :D

Not so sure if I think Tanselle and Rohanne.

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Ok, so since it's been established that most people do not believe that Sansa will end up with Jon, who/what do you see as more likely for her? Personally I don't think Sansa will end up with anyone, but will have a brief political marriage with fAegon (before he gets roasted by Dany). 

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