How likely is a Jon/Sansa match (aka Jonsa)?

[winter daughter]

40 minutes ago, Mystical said:

It's true up to a point but no one, not even Jon, comes close to the shipping level of Sansa.

True but he is indeed the front-runner among men.

42 minutes ago, Mystical said:

I'm against it and all but Sansa/Jon looks like a good deal and normal/healthy compared to 95% of the characters Sansa gets shipped with. Thanks fandom.

I understand why you consider it healthier than other popular candidates and if it does happen I won't hate it or anything but for the reasons I've already discussed I think there isn't strong clues for it and it's unlikely to happen.

I think the main reason for this level of shipping is the source material itself. Romance is one the main themes of Sansa's story and she has been involved with so many men/boys already that imo it makes sense why she has the highest level of shipping in the fandom. I'm not a shipper myself and although I avoid crazy shippers and shipping wars like plague, I have no problem with shipping itself.

 

 

[Nagini's Neville]

@Mystical Sansa has two major themes in her arc: politics and marriage. Now they are one and the same as long as she stays in the hands of ppl, that want to use her as a pawn for their own interests. Since Sansa has never stopped longing for romantic love, you just expect her at least to try to separate politics from love (marriage) and gain agency over both. (Or maybe she'll come to terms with marriage having to stay connected to politics and separates marriage and love. But that would be rather tragic IMO.) Otherwise she'll stay a pawn forever and her arc will be stagnant.

So I agree with WD, that that's probably the reason why she is paired up so much. But Roose, Tywin and Stannis, really? lol  

[winter daughter]

23 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

But Roose, Tywin and Stannis, really? lol 

Just one trip to AO3 and nothing will surprise you anymore lol

[Nagini's Neville]

8 hours ago, winter daughter said:

Just one trip to AO3 and nothing will surprise you anymore lol

Don't even know what that is  Might be for the better though lol

[kissdbyfire]

9 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Don't even know what that is  Might be for the better though lol

[SeanF]

12 hours ago, Mystical said:

It's true up to a point but no one, not even Jon, comes close to the shipping level of Sansa. I mean you have Sandor, Jon, Tyrion and LF as the most popular. Then there are fringes like Willas or fAegon. Then she's also shipped with daddy characters Tywin, Roose and Stannis. The thing that has actors in it also added Margaery, Theon and even Ramsey ( ) to the pool. Jon doesn't even hold a candle to that. So while he gets paired a lot, it's with a small number of women (and Satin lol). And lucky him, it's a lot less icky, perverted, skeevy and sick on his side of the ship pool.

I'm against it and all but Sansa/Jon looks like a good deal and normal/healthy compared to 95% of the characters Sansa gets shipped with. Thanks fandom.

Sansa/Daenerys, Sansa/Cersei, and Sansa/Arya are popular ships as well.

[winter daughter]

6 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Don't even know what that is  Might be for the better though lol

It's the dark side of the force

But seriously, it's just a fanfic site and there is no pairing that you can't find there.

But beware… If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will…

 

 

[SeanF]

12 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

It's the dark side of the force

But seriously, it's just a fanfic site and there is no pairing that you can't find there.

But beware… If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will…

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

It's the dark side of the force

But seriously, it's just a fanfic site and there is no pairing that you can't find there.

But beware… If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will…

 

 

Every year, they hold a Thramsay week.

[winter daughter]

38 minutes ago, SeanF said:

 

Every year, they hold a Thramsay week.

I knew the ship exited but an annual celebration? Lol

 

[Morte]

57 minutes ago, winter daughter said:

It's the dark side of the force

But seriously, it's just a fanfic site and there is no pairing that you can't find there.

But beware… If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will…

 

 

Playing advocatus diaboli: There are really good stories on AO3 , both fanfics and original works. Although I have no idea concerning the state of Asoiaf-fics...and I will not start... wtf 1845 pages!

But yeah... one can find really everything there... everything... ("the horror, the horror...")

[Morte]

54 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Every year, they hold a Thramsay week.

Had to look that one up ...

But well ... Oh my... *sigh*

[SeanF]

17 minutes ago, Morte said:

Playing advocatus diaboli: There are really good stories on AO3 , both fanfics and original works. Although I have no idea concerning the state of Asoiaf-fics...and I will not start... wtf 1845 pages!

But yeah... one can find really everything there... everything... ("the horror, the horror...")

There are good writers, and others not so good.  And, some who delight in plumbing the depths of human nature.

[Nagini's Neville]

2 hours ago, winter daughter said:

It's the dark side of the force

But seriously, it's just a fanfic site and there is no pairing that you can't find there.

But beware… If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will…

 

 

Thank you , that you put it into words, that I would understand !!!

But I think in this case I'm save lol- I just don't like fanfic and not because I'm a snob about it, but I guess first of all, that would be too much work to find a decent story. And if the quality of the story is okay, than it just never feels like the real deal. So even if it says Harry Potter did something, I always think "nah, that's Barry Trotter doing this" lol

And there are too many good books, I still need to read and never get around to 

[winter daughter]

51 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Thank you , that you put it into words, that I would understand !!!

Welcome you are!

57 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

But I think in this case I'm save lol- I just don't like fanfic and not because I'm a snob about it, but I guess first of all, that would be too much work to find a decent story. And if the quality of the story is okay, than it just never feels like the real deal. So even if it says Harry Potter did something, I always think "nah, that's Barry Trotter doing this" lol

I know what you mean. I've read some before but it's not my cup of tea either.

1 hour ago, Nagini's Neville said:

And there are too many good books, I still need to read and never get around to 

Well said. too many good books and too many good movies but not enough motivation lol

 

[Stormourne]

If we're honest, the only logical starkcest scenario is the one between Jon and Arya, who we know were the original intended incest couple in the novels before the plot changed heavily. While it's most likely the case that George shifted that incest subplot onto Jamie and Cersei, it stands to reason that if starkcest must happen, whether to unite the whole realm after the War for the Dawn is won, as there would be a Targayen and Stark on the throne, thus unifying the north and south under the same House, then Jon and Arya are the likely players here - she has never been married, unlike Sansa, who now bears the Lannister surname, nor does the realm think she's a kingslayer (which may not be a bad thing for us readers, but the people/lords might still take offense, regardless of how shitty Jof was).

From a political point of view, better the unmarried, unsoiled maiden than the once (might be twice in the future) married Stark girl.

So please explain to me why George would change Arya/Jon to Jon/Sansa? If starkcest does happen, that is. Sansa looked down on Jon growing up; she reminds him of her mother, so that would be a huge turn off. Are people wanting this just because they look like Ned and Cat or something?

From what we know, between the show and the books, I doubt there will be any starkcest, but if there is, then it's between Jon and Arya, who, may I add, have thought about each other throughout the five books thus far. And to emphasis this point. Aside from the Mercy chapter, Arya has thought about Jon is all of her chapters (If my memory serves me well). And Jon died for Arya, so... Good luck Jonsa fans! Just don't kid yourselves.

[Mystical]

2 hours ago, Stormourne said:

unlike Sansa, who now bears the Lannister surname, nor does the realm think she's a kingslayer (which may not be a bad thing for us readers, but the people/lords might still take offense, regardless of how shitty Jof was).

No one has ever referred to Sansa as Sansa Lannister except Stannis when he tried to manipulate Jon. And the only reason why Sansa is thought of as a kingslayer is through association due to her husbands 'guilt' (and because Cercei is nuts). The husband she was forced to marry at sword point btw.

2 hours ago, Stormourne said:

If we're honest, the only logical starkcest scenario is the one between Jon and Arya, who we know were the original intended incest couple in the novels before the plot changed heavily.

Why would Jon/Arya, true siblings, be more likely? The original outline is no proof of anything, that should be clear to most people by now.

2 hours ago, Stormourne said:

From a political point of view, better the unmarried, unsoiled maiden than the once (might be twice in the future) married Stark girl.

Sansa is still a virgin herself, she hasn't been 'soiled'. What makes you think Arya will remain unsoiled? The world they live in isn't exactly kind to girls and the only reason the Stark girls have avoided being raped so far is their rape armor. We already know from the TWOW sample chapter that Arya now has to seduce people sexually while going through her training. This can go to even darker places.

And since when is being married more than once looked down upon or disqualifies one from advantageous options? Margaery Tyrell is doing pretty well for herself being married more than once already.

2 hours ago, Stormourne said:

So please explain to me why George would change Arya/Jon to Jon/Sansa? If starkcest does happen, that is. Sansa looked down on Jon growing up; she reminds him of her mother, so that would be a huge turn off. Are people wanting this just because they look like Ned and Cat or something?

No one knows what goes on in GRRM's head and I don't know why people ship it. But Jon barely thinks of Sansa and when he does it's certainly not in a bad light really. His memories of her are things like brushing Lady's coat while singing and teaching Jon how to talk to girls.

2 hours ago, Stormourne said:

From what we know, between the show and the books, I doubt there will be any starkcest, but if there is, then it's between Jon and Arya, who, may I add, have thought about each other throughout the five books thus far. And to emphasis this point. Aside from the Mercy chapter, Arya has thought about Jon is all of her chapters (If my memory serves me well). And Jon died for Arya, so... Good luck Jonsa fans! Just don't kid yourselves.

Why would thinking about your closest sibling a lot equate to incest? Just like lack of thinking about one means there is going to be no incest? This has never made sense to me. Arya and Jon were very close SIBLINGS, of course they would think about each other a lot. That's NORMAL. It's certainly no indication of any possible incest.

On 4/24/2020 at 5:18 AM, SeanF said:

Sansa/Daenerys, Sansa/Cersei, and Sansa/Arya are popular ships as well.

I was aware of the first one but not the latter two.

Excuse me...*grabs vomit bucket*

[Alyn Oakenfist]

5 minutes ago, Mystical said:

No one has ever referred to Sansa as Sansa Lannister except Stannis when he tried to manipulate Jon

That's because nobody else refers to her by her last name. After her marriage, forced or not, for now still valid under Westerosi legalism (at least until Tommen is deposed) she is married to Tyrion and as such her last name is Lannister.

[Mystical]

Just now, Alyn Oakenfist said:

That's because nobody else refers to her by her last name. After her marriage, forced or not, for now still valid under Westerosi legalism (at least until Tommen is deposed) she is married to Tyrion and as such her last name is Lannister.

Why would it be Lannister? I can't see the Lannisters letting Sansa take their last name. At that point, the Lannisters control the highest rank in the 7 Kingdoms. We know that Ladies of high rank can chose not to take their husband's last name just like a husband can take the wife's name if her family is higher in the social order. So just because a woman is married doesn't automatically mean she takes her husband's last name.

And considering the Lannisters I see no way for them to give Sansa their last name. For one, they want to claim the North through her so she has to keep the Stark name. Secondly, again, they are the highest ranking family now so giving a traitor's daughter their last name (despite how much they hate Tyrion he is a Lannister helping to further their goals) is just bad optics. A traitor would not be worthy of their last name.

[frenin]

29 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Why would it be Lannister? I can't see the Lannisters letting Sansa take their last name. At that point, the Lannisters control the highest rank in the 7 Kingdoms. We know that Ladies of high rank can chose not to take their husband's last name just like a husband can take the wife's name if her family is higher in the social order. So just because a woman is married doesn't automatically mean she takes her husband's last name.

The Lannister may control the Throne but the Throne is still nominally Baratheon so, yes, Sansa can get the Lannister name, it's not really up to the Lannisters really.

 

 

 

[Nagini's Neville]

Nobody ever calls her Sansa Lannister after the wedding except for Stannis, he calls her Lady Lannister to mess with Jon. Funny enough the Lannisters themselves always call her Sansa Stark as if they are well aware, that she is not one of them.

But also Loras and Mace and Qyburn, Hyle Hunt, Ser Shadrich, one member of the Brotherhood WB and even the Elder Brother call her Sansa Stark. And Tarly calls her "Stark girl". 

So I think it's save to assume, that she is still Sansa Stark to Westeros.

Tywin: " “Perhaps I should have married Sansa Stark to Moon Boy.

Jaime: “His wife?” Brienne said, appalled. “The Imp? But … he swore, before the whole court, in sight of gods and men …” She is such an innocent. Jaime was almost as surprised, if truth be told, but he hid it better. Sansa Stark, that ought to put a smile on Tyrion’s face.

Tywin: The north will go to your son by Sansa Stark … if you ever find enough manhood in you to breed one. Lest you forget, it is not only Joffrey who must needs take a maidenhead.”

Tyrion: Of all those at the high table, only Sansa Stark was not smiling. He could have loved her for that,

Cersei:“No, it’s more, you’re changed.” She backed off a step. “We’ll talk later. On the morrow. I have Sansa Stark’s maids in a tower cell, I need to question them … you should go to Father.”

Mace: “Did Sansa Stark do it, then?” Lord Tyrell demanded.

Tyrion: Ser Meryn went on to relate how Tyrion had stopped Joffrey’s chastisement of Sansa Stark.

Loras: “No,” the Knight of Flowers said, unamused. “Sansa Stark was the poisoner. You all forget, my sister was drinking from that chalice as well. Sansa Stark was the only person in the hall who had reason to want Margaery dead, as well as the king.

Jaime: “Ser Meryn.” Jaime smiled at the sour knight with the rust-red hair and the pouches under his eyes. “I have heard it said that Joffrey made use of you to chastise Sansa Stark.”

Jaime gave her a hard smile. “See, wench? We know each other too well. Tyrion’s wanted to be me since he took his first step, but he’d never follow me in kingslaying. Sansa Stark killed Joffrey.

Jaime: “… such foul creatures as us. Yes, I recall. Hear me out, Brienne. Both of us swore oaths concerning Sansa Stark.

Sansa Stark is my last chance for honor.” Jaime smiled thinly.

“Perhaps his lordship was questioning the girl about her mistress,” Qyburn suggested.“Sansa Stark vanished the night the king was murdered, I have heard.”

 The queen made it plain that the whore would have nothing of her until she told them where Sansa Stark had gone.

Brienne: Sansa Stark had vanished on the night King Joffrey died, and if anyone had seen her since, or had any inkling where she might have gone, they were not talking.

Even if Sansa Stark had wanted to go home, how would she get there?

Perhaps Sansa Stark was dead, beheaded for her part in King Joffrey’s death,

She wondered whether Sansa Stark was cold as well,

Ser Shadrich laughed. “Oh, I doubt that, but it may be that you and I share a quest. A little lost sister, is it? With blue eyes and auburn hair?” He laughed again. “You are not the only hunter in the woods. I seek for Sansa Stark as well.”

“I know no Sansa Stark,” she insisted. “I am searching for my sister, a highborn girl

Tarly took the letter and unrolled it, scowling. His lips moved as he read. “The king’s business. What sort of business?” Lie to me and I will hang you. “S-Sansa Stark.” “If the Stark girl were here, I’d know it.

Hyle Hunt atop the crumbling wall, his legs crossed. “If there are brothels down in hell, the wretch will thank you,” the knight called down. “Elsewise, that’s a waste of good gold.” “I keep my promises. What are you doing here?” “Lord Randyll bid me follow you. If by some freak’s chance you stumbled onto Sansa Stark,

“Lord Randyll bid me follow you. If by some freak’s chance you stumbled onto Sansa Stark, he told me to bring her back to Maidenpool.

Cersei: It came back to her that Margaery and her hideous grandmother had once plotted to marry Sansa Stark to the little queen’s crippled brother Willas.

Elder Brother: I wonder, my lady … what do you hope to find there?” “A girl,” she told him. “A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with a fair face and auburn hair.” “Sansa Stark.” The name was softly said. “You believe this poor child is with the Hound?”

I am looking for a girl, Brienne remembered. A highborn maid of three-and-ten, with blue eyes and auburn hair. “My lady?” she said. “Lady Sansa?” A man laughed. “She thinks you’re Sansa Stark.”

Tyrion: She reminded him of Sansa Stark, the child bride he had wed and lost.

I left a few quotes out of Cersei and Jaime and Brienne calling her Sansa Stark