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Alyn Oakenfist

What's your favorite speech?

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So ASOIAF has a lot of great speeches, but what is your favorite one? For me it comes between Eustace Osgrey's 2 princes for one throne and Septon's Meriband's broken men. I can't really say which one is better. I think I like Eustace Osgrey's one more due to his personal attachment and the incredible mix of bitterness, sadness and sorrow. So what is your favorite speech in ASOIAF?

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The Broken Men Speech as well. I find it incredibly moving, important and needed, that we see what war does to the commoners first hand through Brienne's chapters (which puts them among my favorites) and also through this speech. His more complex and realistic portrayal of war and it's consequences sets GRRM apart from a lot of other fantasy writers and make everything more interesting and me more emotionally engaged in whatever happens in Westeros and the 7 kingdoms all together. 

In a lot of fantasy novels I just get numb to the wars and fighting doesn't seem real to me, therefore I'm often just stop caring. GRRM does a much better job at this.

I still hope we might get a broken women speech as well or an equivalent of that to show how war effects women specifically, for example that men like the mountain and his rats are given free reign.

 

"For a similar reason I also like, when Sansa sings with and for everyone in the Sept before the Battle of the Blackwater. This is of course not a speech, but it has a similar effect on me, since the lyrics are equally moving and very important IMO. It is a song of hope and light and that prays for mercy for all the victims of war. And hope and the belief in a better time are the only things, that can get you through the dark ones. I also love the sense of camaraderie and unity in this scene.

She knew the hymn; her mother had taught it to her once, a long time ago in Winterfell. She joined her voice to theirs.

Gentle Mother, font of mercy,

save our sons from war, we pray,

stay the swords and stay the arrows,

let them know a better day.

Gentle Mother, strength of women,

help our daughters through this fray,

soothe the wrath and tame the fury,

teach us all a kinder way.

Across the city, thousands had jammed into the Great Sept of Baelor on Visenya’s hill, and they would be singing too, their voices swelling out over the city, across the river, and up into the sky. Surely the gods must hear us, she thought. Sansa knew most of the hymns, and followed along on those she did not know as best she could. She sang along with grizzled old serving men and anxious young wives, with serving girls and soldiers, cooks and falconers, knights and knaves, squires and spit boys and nursing mothers. She sang with those inside the castle walls and those without, sang with all the city. She sang for mercy, for the living and the dead alike, for Bran and Rickon and Robb, for her sister Arya and her bastard brother Jon Snow, away off on the Wall. She sang for her mother and her father, for her grandfather Lord Hoster and her uncle Edmure Tully, for her friend Jeyne Poole, for old drunken King Robert, for Septa Mordane and Ser Dontos and Jory Cassel and Maester Luwin, for all the brave knights and soldiers who would die today, and for the children and the wives who would mourn them, and finally, toward the end, she even sang for Tyrion the Imp and for the Hound. He is no true knight but he saved me all the same, she told the Mother. Save him if you can, and gentle the rage inside him."

A Clash of Kings, Sansa 5

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28 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So ASOIAF has a lot of great speeches, but what is your favorite one? For me it comes between Eustace Osgrey's 2 princes for one throne and Septon's Meriband's broken men. I can't really say which one is better. I think I like Eustace Osgrey's one more due to his personal attachment and the incredible mix of bitterness, sadness and sorrow. So what is your favorite speech in ASOIAF?

Septon Meribald’s “broken men” speech is amazing.   
 

Although arguably not a speech, certainly not a soliloquy, Jamie’s ”So many vows... they make you swear and swear” speech about honor and vows in ACoK. - Catelyn VII. 

Quote

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Since @Reekazoid has left speech territory lol, I'll also add the dialogue between Ned and Cersei, where she says "if you play the game of thrones you win or you die." Such a great dialogue. I really could see both their perspectives and was really able for the first time to empathize and sympathize with Cersei as well as Ned (that was before Feast of course lol- even though I still can empathize with her my opinion of her sure has evolved)

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I love Septon Meribald, and his speech is so beautiful and poignant... 

But there are also harsher ones that are a different kind of beautiful :lol:

ADwD, The King’s Prize

“Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned’s little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue.”

ADwD, Davos IV

“Soon I must return to the feast to toast my friends of Frey,” Manderly continued. “They watch me, ser. Day and night their eyes are on me, noses sniffing for some whiff of treachery. You saw them, the arrogant Ser Jared and his nephew Rhaegar, that smirking worm who wears a dragon’s name. Behind them both stands Symond, clinking coins. That one has bought and paid for several of my servants and two of my knights. One of his wife’s handmaids has found her way into the bed of my own fool. If Stannis wonders that my letters say so little, it is because I dare not even trust my maester. Theomore is all head and no heart. You heard him in my hall. Maesters are supposed to put aside old loyalties when they don their chains, but I cannot forget that Theomore was born a Lannister of Lannisport and claims some distant kinship to the Lannisters of Casterly Rock. Foes and false friends are all around me, Lord Davos. They infest my city like roaches, and at night I feel them crawling over me.” The fat man’s fingers coiled into a fist, and all his chins trembled. “My son Wendel came to the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder’s bread and salt, and hung his sword upon the wall to feast with friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter … but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer’s farce is almost done. My son is home.”

 

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Big fan of Davos' speech in adwd. After all that happens in asoiaf we almost lost track of the bad guy. Im usually not a vengeance type of guy, but his speech really captured me. Especially the bolded part.

.

"Death," he heard himself say, "there will be death, aye. Your lordship lost a son at the Red Wedding. I lost four upon the Blackwater. And why? Because the Lannisters stole the throne. Go to King's Landing and look on Tommen with your own eyes, if you doubt me. A blind man could see it. What does Stannis offer you? Vengeance. Vengeance for my sons and yours, for your husbands and your fathers and your brothers. Vengeance for your murdered lord, your murdered king, your butchered princes. Vengeance!"

.

But nothing imo can compare to Petyr in asos, because honestly its good advice (a little Machiavellian, but fuck it lol he had good advice too

.

Lord Petyr loosened a seed with the point of his dagger. "You must miss your father terribly, I know. Lord Eddard was a brave man, honest and loyal . . . but quite a hopeless player." He brought the seed to his mouth with the knife. "In King's Landing, there are two sorts of people. The players and the pieces."

"And I was a piece?" She dreaded the answer.

"Yes, but don't let that trouble you. You're still half a child. Every man's a piece to start with, and every maid as well. Even some who think they are players." He ate another seed. "Cersei, for one. She thinks herself sly, but in truth she is utterly predictable. Her strength rests on her beauty, birth, and riches. Only the first of those is truly her own, and it will soon desert her. I pity her then. She wants power, but has no notion what to do with it when she gets it. Everyone wants something, Alayne. And when you know what a man wants you know who he is, and how to move him."

.

Not that you should try to emulate Petyr, but if you gotta be someone, it might as well be LF lol

 

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Posted (edited)

"What if we should find the queen and discover that this talk of dragons was just some sailor's drunken fancy? This wide world is full of such mad tales. Grumkins and snarks, ghosts and ghouls, mermaids, rock goblins, winged horses, winged pigs..winged lions.

 

Tyrion on his first meeting with Griff.

Not the best speech in the series but always made me smile as it shows how clever Tyrion is and how quickly he can read situations and people. Incredibly well written character. 

 

Edited by CorlysVelaryon

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Sansa and Sandor where Hound explained to her true purpose of knights and how cruel their world is .

Every speech from Stannis is epic.

Those with Tyrion are really funny.

Rorge and Sandor swearing.

 

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Sam's eulogy for Maester Aemon. 

"He was a good man," he began . . . but as soon as he had said the words he knew that they were wrong. "No. He was a great man. A maester of the Citadel, chained and sworn, and Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch, ever faithful. When he was born they named him for a hero who had died too young, but though he lived a long long time, his own life was no less heroic. No man was wiser, or gentler, or kinder. At the Wall, a dozen lords commander came and went during his years of service, but he was always there to counsel them. He counseled kings as well. He could have been a king himself, but when they offered him the crown he told them they should give it to his younger brother. How many men would do that?" Sam felt the tears welling in his eyes, and knew he could not go on much longer. "He was the blood of the dragon, but now his fire has gone out. He was Aemon Targaryen. And now his watch is ended."

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4 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

how war effects women specifically, for example that men like the mountain and his rats are given free reign.

That's probably why Pia exists.

4 hours ago, Reekazoid said:

”So many vows... they make you swear and swear” speech about honor and vows in ACoK. - Catelyn VII. 

Yeah not a speech, but still one of the most powerful moments in the book. For me that was the moment when any idea of ASOIAF being the usual cliched fantasy story disappeared. Like how much dilemma and character development in just a few lines.

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

ADwD, The King’s Prize

“Winter is almost upon us, boy. And winter is death. I would sooner my men die fighting for the Ned’s little girl than alone and hungry in the snow, weeping tears that freeze upon their cheeks. No one sings songs of men who die like that. As for me, I am old. This will be my last winter. Let me bathe in Bolton blood before I die. I want to feel it spatter across my face when my axe bites deep into a Bolton skull. I want to lick it off my lips and die with the taste of it on my tongue.”

Let's face it, the most boss speech in ASOIAF, far out shadowing anything Tywin said (which is definitely saying a lot).

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I have two fav speeches. 

 

Treason. He is a piece of shit but what a speech.

My sons died fighting for the King, The rightful king, Daemon Blackfyre. The King Who Bore the Sword.”“The men of the red dragon call themselves the loyalists, but we who chose the black were just as loyal, once. Though now…all the men who marched beside me to seat Prince Daemon on the Iron Throne have melted away like morning dew. Mayhaps I dreamed them. Or more like, Lord Bloodraven and his Raven’s Teeth have put the fear in them. They cannot all be dead.” [...] “ Treason …is only a word. When two princes fight for a chair where only one may sit, great lords and common men alike must choose. And when the battle’s done, the victors will be hailed as loyal men and true, whilst those who were defeated will be known forevermore as rebels and traitors. That was my fate.” [...] “If Daemon had ridden over Gwayne Corbray…if Fireball had not been slain on the eve of battle…if Hightower and Tarbeck and Oakheart and Butter well had lent us their full strength instead of trying to keep one foot in each camp…if Manfred Lothston had proved true instead of treacherous…if storms had not delayed Lord Bracken’s sailing with the Myrish crossbowmen…if Quickfinger had not been caught with the stolen dragon’s eggs…so many if s, ser…had any one come out differently, it could all have turned t’other way. Then we would be called the loyalists, and the red dragons would be remembered as men who fought to keep the usurper Daeron the Falseborn upon his stolen throne, and failed.” [...]  “Aye, we were pardoned. So long as we bent the knee and gave him a hostage to ensure our future loyalty, Daeron forgave the traitors and the rebels.” His voice was bitter. “I bought my head back with my daughter’s life. Alysanne was seven when they took her off to King’s Landing and twenty when she died, a silent sister. I went to King’s Landing once to see her, and she would not even speak to me, her own father. A king’s mercy is a poisoned gift. Daeron Targaryen left me life, but took my pride and dreams and honor.” upon his lap, but the old man took no notice of it. “I should have gone with Bittersteel into exile, or died beside my sons and my sweet king. That would have been a death worthy of a chequy lion descended from so many proud lords and mighty warriors. Daeron’s mercy made me smaller.” In his heart the black dragon never died, Dunk realized.

 

But my favourite will always be Mya's.

 

Mya shook her head. "I remember a man throwing me in the air when I was very little. He stands as tall as the sky, and he throws me up so high it feels as though I'm flying. We're both laughing, laughing so much that I can hardly catch a breath, and finally I laugh so hard I wet myself, but that only makes him laugh the louder. I was never afraid when he was throwing me. I knew that he would always be there to catch me." She pushed her hair back. "Then one day he wasn't. Men come and go. They lie, or die, or leave you. A mountain is not a man, though, and a stone is a mountain's daughter. I trust my father, and I trust my mules. I won't fall." She put her hand on a jagged spur of rock, and got to her feet. "Best finish. We have a long way yet to go, and I can smell a storm."

 

 

An honorary one would Tyrion's one during the Blackwater. 10 out of 10 Tyrion.

 

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Just now, frenin said:

I have two fav speeches. 

 

Treason. He is a piece of shit but what a speech.

My sons died fighting for the King, The rightful king, Daemon Blackfyre. The King Who Bore the Sword.”“The men of the red dragon call themselves the loyalists, but we who chose the black were just as loyal, once. Though now…all the men who marched beside me to seat Prince Daemon on the Iron Throne have melted away like morning dew. Mayhaps I dreamed them. Or more like, Lord Bloodraven and his Raven’s Teeth have put the fear in them. They cannot all be dead.” [...] “ Treason …is only a word. When two princes fight for a chair where only one may sit, great lords and common men alike must choose. And when the battle’s done, the victors will be hailed as loyal men and true, whilst those who were defeated will be known forevermore as rebels and traitors. That was my fate.” [...] “If Daemon had ridden over Gwayne Corbray…if Fireball had not been slain on the eve of battle…if Hightower and Tarbeck and Oakheart and Butter well had lent us their full strength instead of trying to keep one foot in each camp…if Manfred Lothston had proved true instead of treacherous…if storms had not delayed Lord Bracken’s sailing with the Myrish crossbowmen…if Quickfinger had not been caught with the stolen dragon’s eggs…so many if s, ser…had any one come out differently, it could all have turned t’other way. Then we would be called the loyalists, and the red dragons would be remembered as men who fought to keep the usurper Daeron the Falseborn upon his stolen throne, and failed.” [...]  “Aye, we were pardoned. So long as we bent the knee and gave him a hostage to ensure our future loyalty, Daeron forgave the traitors and the rebels.” His voice was bitter. “I bought my head back with my daughter’s life. Alysanne was seven when they took her off to King’s Landing and twenty when she died, a silent sister. I went to King’s Landing once to see her, and she would not even speak to me, her own father. A king’s mercy is a poisoned gift. Daeron Targaryen left me life, but took my pride and dreams and honor.” upon his lap, but the old man took no notice of it. “I should have gone with Bittersteel into exile, or died beside my sons and my sweet king. That would have been a death worthy of a chequy lion descended from so many proud lords and mighty warriors. Daeron’s mercy made me smaller.” In his heart the black dragon never died, Dunk realized.

 

But my favourite will always be Mya's.

 

Mya shook her head. "I remember a man throwing me in the air when I was very little. He stands as tall as the sky, and he throws me up so high it feels as though I'm flying. We're both laughing, laughing so much that I can hardly catch a breath, and finally I laugh so hard I wet myself, but that only makes him laugh the louder. I was never afraid when he was throwing me. I knew that he would always be there to catch me." She pushed her hair back. "Then one day he wasn't. Men come and go. They lie, or die, or leave you. A mountain is not a man, though, and a stone is a mountain's daughter. I trust my father, and I trust my mules. I won't fall." She put her hand on a jagged spur of rock, and got to her feet. "Best finish. We have a long way yet to go, and I can smell a storm."

 

 

An honorary one would Tyrion's one during the Blackwater. 10 out of 10 Tyrion.

 

I love Mya's it's so poetic!

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10 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

That's probably why Pia exists.

Yeah, a lot of sex workers exist. but he doesn't do them justice, he doesn't give them a voice like the broken men get through Sandor, the elder brother, the Broken Men speech and also Tyrion in battle. We never see what life is truly like for them from their pov, we mostly see them from male pov's that have a very limited way of viewing their reality and most of the time tend to objectify them additionally. They all seem like the same people (similar to how the dothraki are portrayed actually) and that of course can't be the reality. And if you have sex workers be such a big part of your world and et women being treated to badly constantly you much give them a voice to portray the full extent of that reality (there are just to many Kyras, Shaes, Vic's wifeS, Reallas, Pias, Lollys, Elias, Hildys... in this world to overlook them all)

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Yeah, a lot of sex workers exist. but he doesn't do them justice, he doesn't give them a voice like the broken men get through Sandor, the elder brother, the Broken Men speech and also Tyrion in battle. We never see what life is truly like for them from their pov, we mostly see them from male pov's that have a very limited way of viewing their reality and most of the time tend to objectify them additionally. They all seem like the same people (similar to how the dothraki are portrayed actually) and that of course can't be the reality. And if you have sex workers be such a big part of your world and et women being treated to badly constantly you much give them a voice to portray the full extent of that reality (there are just to many Kyras, Shaes, Vic's wifeS, Reallas, Pias, Lollys, Elias, Hildys... in this world to overlook them all)

Okay I'm getting confused. Are we talking about sex workers (also known as prostitutes) or rape victims? Cause from the first comment I thought you were talking about the female victims of war and how the trauma they went through affects them. That's why I said Pia exists for that, cause even though she is the castle's prostitute her role becomes way more interesting after her ,,interaction" with Gregor and his men. As for prostitutes, well honestly as long as it's voluntary I don't need to find out their POV's. Like especially in the context of the story I don't find it that interesting. As for rape victims I'm actually very curious to see where Jeyne's ark goes in TWOW.

Edited by Alyn Oakenfist

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Okay I'm getting confused. Are we talking about sex workers (also known as prostitutes) or rape victims? Cause from the first comment I thought you were talking about the female victims of war and how the trauma they went through affects them. That's why I said Pia exists for that, cause even though she is the castle's prostitute her role becomes way more interesting after her ,,interaction" with Gregor and his men. As for prostitutes, well honestly as long as it's voluntary I don't need to find out their POV's. Like especially in the context of the story I don't find it that interesting. As for rape victims I'm actually very curious to see where Jeyne's ark goes in TWOW.

It's connected. Sex workers often experience rape and sexual violence and violence in general as we can see with Pia and Shae. I'd say it's quite certain every sex worker in the Middle Ages has also been a victim of rape. And it's very naive to believe being a sex worker in the Middle Ages is voluntary. And we see Pia only from Jaime's pov, that's not showing her experience or telling her story. There is more, than outside observation from a character, that can't relate in the slightest.

Edited by Nagini's Neville

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5 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

It's connected. Sex workers often experience rape and sexual violence and violence in general as we can see with Pia and Shae.

I do agree that the areas do have some overlap, but my point remains. I'm curious about how the story would tackle rape victims not common variety prostitutes. 

6 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

And it's very naive to believe being a sex worker in the Middle Ages is voluntary

Ah, that's debatable. Honestly due to how sensitive the topic is and that we're derailing the thread I think it's better to say that ,,it's kinda complicated".

7 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

There is more, than outside observation from a character, that can't relate in the slightest.

Yeah, but regardless we won't ever get a POV from that side of things, except if maybe Mel thinks really long and hard about whatever shit went on to her becoming the Red Woman.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, frenin said:

Treason. He is a piece of shit but what a speech.

My sons died fighting for the King, The rightful king, Daemon Blackfyre. The King Who Bore the Sword.”“The men of the red dragon call themselves the loyalists, but we who chose the black were just as loyal, once. Though now…all the men who marched beside me to seat Prince Daemon on the Iron Throne have melted away like morning dew. Mayhaps I dreamed them. Or more like, Lord Bloodraven and his Raven’s Teeth have put the fear in them. They cannot all be dead.” [...] “ Treason …is only a word. When two princes fight for a chair where only one may sit, great lords and common men alike must choose. And when the battle’s done, the victors will be hailed as loyal men and true, whilst those who were defeated will be known forevermore as rebels and traitors. That was my fate.” [...] “If Daemon had ridden over Gwayne Corbray…if Fireball had not been slain on the eve of battle…if Hightower and Tarbeck and Oakheart and Butter well had lent us their full strength instead of trying to keep one foot in each camp…if Manfred Lothston had proved true instead of treacherous…if storms had not delayed Lord Bracken’s sailing with the Myrish crossbowmen…if Quickfinger had not been caught with the stolen dragon’s eggs…so many if s, ser…had any one come out differently, it could all have turned t’other way. Then we would be called the loyalists, and the red dragons would be remembered as men who fought to keep the usurper Daeron the Falseborn upon his stolen throne, and failed.” [...]  “Aye, we were pardoned. So long as we bent the knee and gave him a hostage to ensure our future loyalty, Daeron forgave the traitors and the rebels.” His voice was bitter. “I bought my head back with my daughter’s life. Alysanne was seven when they took her off to King’s Landing and twenty when she died, a silent sister. I went to King’s Landing once to see her, and she would not even speak to me, her own father. A king’s mercy is a poisoned gift. Daeron Targaryen left me life, but took my pride and dreams and honor.” upon his lap, but the old man took no notice of it. “I should have gone with Bittersteel into exile, or died beside my sons and my sweet king. That would have been a death worthy of a chequy lion descended from so many proud lords and mighty warriors. Daeron’s mercy made me smaller.” In his heart the black dragon never died, Dunk realized.

As I said that's my favorite. I really like how despite being balls deep into the game of thrones he's one of the few people who seems to realize just how pointless and meaningless the whole conflict was. Also why do you say he's a piece of shit? He's bitter that's for sure, but I wouldn't call him ,,a piece of shit"

 

Edited by Alyn Oakenfist

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8 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Ah, that's debatable. Honestly due to how sensitive the topic is and that we're derailing the thread I think it's better to say that ,,it's kinda complicated".

I'd say it's complicated today, but not for the most part in the Middle Ages, where a woman belonged to her father, was for the most part unable to work, had only few rights and was utterly vulnerable and helpless, if you didn't have a good father, brother or husband protecting you. And you had to make a living somehow. If you were raped once or even had consensual sex you were labeled a whore already, no one would marry you anymore and again you would be completely depended on your male relatives, but very likely they see you as a whore now as well. We see what happens, if you have a father like Shae had, who has raped her all her life. She runs away from the person she legally belongs to. There is nothing she can do from stopping his abuse. What is she to do now, there is not much work, that women are allowed to do, especially not without a male relative consenting and not having the money or prmission to learn something in the first place, so she thinks to herself: "better other men, than my father." She is also just 18 when we meet her in Game. And sadly once you have been abused without help it often starts a cycle of abuse, because you have been so traumatized and psychologically changed. They often also get born into prostitution. They are poor, have to take care of their children- it's a matter of desperation.

29 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Yeah, but regardless we won't ever get a POV from that side of things, except if maybe Mel thinks really long and hard about whatever shit went on to her becoming the Red Woman.

We don't have to get a pov exactly necessarily (even though it would be nice) that's why I mention having an equivalent of the Broken men speech or what the elder brother told Brienne about his experiences being a knight in war and his rehabilitation or a character like Sandor, that is really fleshed out.

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56 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

As I said that's my favorite. I really like how despite being balls deep into the game of thrones he's one of the few people who seems to realize just how pointless and meaningless the whole conflict was. Also why do you say he's a piece of shit? He's bitter that's for sure, but I wouldn't call him ,,a piece of shit"

 

Well, everything he does and says is deplorable.

The man is a sexist, racist and entitled asshole, not only he destroyed his family but he is unable to accept that he was taken the dam and fully knowing that he was invading a territory that wasn't his and, this is the mos  infuriating part, he could ever beat Rohanne Webber, the man went and planned to throw his folk lives  away for no better reason than pride.

 

But as i said. Mya's speech is the best for me. Damn Bobby B, you only had one job.

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