Daenerys is Azor Ahai Reborn

[Son of Man]

On 4/16/2020 at 4:52 PM, TheBlackDragonWillReturn said:

Now that you've re-brought this up I think Daenerys is definitely now on MY OWN list of possible candidates for Azor Ahai along with Jon Snow - Nissa Nissa being Ygritte and the Night's Watch being Lightbringer. It is very plausable that Dany is indeed Azor Ahai with Khal Drogo being Nissa Nissa but what is her Lightbringer? I'll be soo happy if they do go to Yi Ti and Asshai because :

 To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.

Her Lightbringer?  She has a lot of assets which are possibilities for a Lightbringer.  She has dragons.  I will also include the red comet itself, the sword that slays the seasons.

[The Commentator]

On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I pulled up an old topic from long ago.  I thought it worth the effort to widen the scope of this discussion. 

We started off talking about the "ghosts" in the hallway and their swords.  I want to bring in additional materials that may help in the discussion, for those who would care to talk about this old topic.

From Pate:

There are at least four of these "candles."  Valyria is the accepted origin.

From Armen:

Why would a candle have sharp edges?  Only weapons have sharp edges.  Knowledge can be dangerous but not as dangerous as ignorance.  I don't agree with this part of Armen's opinion.

From Leo:

The source of light is obviously not a flame. 

From Armen:

No it does not.  Marwyn thinks it's obsidian though. 

From Samwell:

So what kind of light makes whites look like that?  Something that has ultra-violet.  The perfect light to use against creatures who live at night.  They burn instead of getting a sun tan. 

From Will:

So once again, we have swords that glow in the dark.  This one gives off blue light. 

From Ned:

Arthur's sword glows in the dark?  It is described as glass-like.

From Daenerys:

We assumed in the first discussion that these men were not the Targaryen kings of Westeros.  The Targaryens do not name themselves or their reign in terms of gem stones.  These men were older, from a long time ago.  These men were Azor Ahai of his time.  Their clothes were ragged because they were living through the long night.  So why is Daenerys important to them?  I believe it is because she is Azor Ahai for this time.  She is the one who can "wake the dragon."  The dragon represents fire and light. 

From Quaithe:

It is my opinion that the death of Khal Drogo lit the candles.  Khal Drogo is Nissa Nissa. 

From The World of Ice & Fire:

So it is believed the Blood Betrayal caused the Long Night.  I'm doubtful, but let's continue.  It is obvious to me, Maiden-Made-of-Light is the Sun.  Lion of Night is the Moon.

From Old Nan:

This looks like a climate change to me.  Change the environment and it favors another species.  The definition of who is fittest can change.  Darkness and cold favor the white walkers.

From The World of Ice & Fire:

This is clear evidence.  The threat existed long before the blood betrayal took place.  Why else would the effort to build and guard these fortresses be sensible.  The size of the defense is equal to the seriousness of the threat.  The blood betrayal did not create the threat.

From The World of Ice & Fire:

The "ghosts" must have failed.  They are hailed as heroes in the records but I think the climate changed on its own.  The long night ended but the empire remained broken.  I believe this is important, but more on this later.  Parts of the old ruling families still exists and rule fractions of what was the old empire. 

From The World of Ice & Fire:

Amethyst is a purple-blue color.  This guy, Bu Gai, must have descended from the Amethyst Empress (family) of old. 

From George Martin: (not an exact quote)

From Quaithe:

From Daenerys and Quaithe:

From The World of Ice & Fire:

No people in their right mind would build with this stone in a place like this.  Unless it wasn't like this when it was built.  Asshai must have been normal in the past.  Something happened to corrupt the very stone of the city itself and contaminate the land around it.  Perhaps this is the after effects of the long night.

I know.  Whew that was long.  But I hope you will agree with me.  It is important for Daenerys Targaryen to learn this truth to avoid a repeat of what happened in this part of the world.  The Amethyst Empress was not an individual but a political faction and family branch.  The Red was also a political faction.  Much like the Tigers and the Elephants in the free cities today.  The blood betrayal caused a political and social divide.  The empire could no longer properly defend its borders because they were divided.  Daenerys assumed Asshai but Quaithe probably meant Yin.  Lightbringer's role is to restore and to rebuild after the end of the long night.  It is easier to accept Lightbringer being glass lanterns to light the world through the long night.  It may even be a weapon because it is sharp.  At least some enable communication.  I don't rule out that there is an actual sword called Lightbringer but an object with multiple uses, weapon, lantern, and telephone, is much more useful.  The Valyrians perhaps didn't know what it was and repurposed the glass objects into communication devices.  The phrase "to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow" mean the long night cannot be stopped nor avoided.  Daenerys will have to live through the darkness before she can again enjoy light and warmth.  Which is fitting because the last title will be A Dream of Spring.  Knowing this truth will help her prepare herself and her people to live through the long night and rebuild afterwards.  The last part is something the previous Azor Ahai was never able to do.

The black stones may be artificial, like our concrete blocks.  The ancients had the technology to cast these stones instead of having to carve out individual blocks.  

[Lady Topspin]

Whether she is Azor Ahai is not the important take away from these legends and histories.  It is about having the data in order to make different choices. 

[Bowen Marsh]

On 4/15/2020 at 10:12 PM, Lady Dacey said:

I really recommend the documentary film Ex-Paje. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7754564/

It's a beautiful piece about a very sad situation, and what it pictures unfortunately contradicts the statements I quoted above. 

While I'm not convinced Melissandre will be successful in her converting efforts, this is not the reason why.

I have not seen the movie you linked to. 

I believe my example stands because it is very hard to sell Rhllor to the north.  Rhllor is an attractive religion to the slaves but it will not appeal to those who worship the Old gods.  Even the name sounds foreign.   

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

On 4/11/2020 at 10:56 AM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Maybe those past versions of Azor Ahai murdered their wives in the hopes of hatching dragon eggs.  They failed.  Daenerys is important because she is the first Azor Ahai to successfully hatch dragon eggs. 

To save them from starvation.  Lords in their castles starved as badly as the poor in their hovels according to Nan.  Dany spared Drogo from the misery and indignity of his vegetative life.  Those men would have done the same.  They killed their families to spare them from prolonged suffering.  

[Josette DuPres]

On 4/17/2020 at 9:20 PM, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

One of the going thoughts proposes the origins of the eggs is none other than Dragonstone.  The ones stolen long ago and sold.  Qaithe in another life stole the eggs and used the proceeds to custom build ships.

And if the Sealord had them all along?  He was part of the pact to return the Targaryens to rule Westeros. 

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 4/28/2020 at 4:37 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

To save them from starvation.  Lords in their castles starved as badly as the poor in their hovels according to Nan.  Dany spared Drogo from the misery and indignity of his vegetative life.  Those men would have done the same.  They killed their families to spare them from prolonged suffering.  

They tried to dance with dragons and failed.  As Aegon V would later try to do. 

[Big P]

On 4/21/2020 at 6:48 PM, Son of Man said:

Her Lightbringer?  She has a lot of assets which are possibilities for a Lightbringer.  She has dragons.  I will also include the red comet itself, the sword that slays the seasons.

Drogon is her Lightbringer.  The red comet was the herald of the rebirth of Daenerys and the birth of Drogon. 

[Big P]

On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The Five Forts are very old, older than the Golden Empire itself; some claim they were raised by the Pearl Emperor during the morning of the Great Empire to keep the Lion of Night and his demons from the realms of men. 

I fully concur.  Lion of the Night is the moon.  The wolves are the children of the night.  We do not yet know what the demons were but the wolves are creatures of the night. 

[300 H&H Magnum]

On 4/8/2020 at 7:23 PM, Finley McLeod said:

I love the parallel roles of Daenerys and Bran.  Quaithe is basically telling Daenerys to go to the east and defend the lands.  She has thousands of newly released slaves in training to become soldiers.  How cool would it be to send them to the Five Forts and build up the defense.  Bran's job is to pick up where his brothers failed miserably and defend the north.  Quaithe and Brynden too are parallel. 

Here is another interesting parallel.  Bran's two older brothers were total failures.  Robb and Jon completely failed.  Those two boys were failures.  They lacked the discipline.  Both were oathbreakers. 

Dany's two older brothers were also failures.  Rhaegar and Viserys were failures.  Dany is the best possible leader for Westeros.  She has the courage and the intelligence to become the best ruler those people will ever have. 

[Loose Bolt]

4 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Dany's two older brothers were also failures.  Rhaegar and Viserys were failures.  Dany is the best possible leader for Westeros.  She has the courage and the intelligence to become the best ruler those people will ever have. 

But as a female Dany lacks necessary legitimacy. Or Westerosi do not accept female rulers. So if she somehow gains Iron Throne her rule would be challenged by rebellions, assassinations and passive resistance by nobility.

[Darth Sidious]

Gender is not going to be an issue.  Daenerys Targaryen will be the first ruling queen of Westeros.  She is the wind of change and Westeros is due for a change.  The people have seen the Lannisters, Starks, and Baratheons make a mess of things.  The most recent lord commander at the Wall commits treason and allows the savage Wildlings to come through.  The Baratheons could not even pull off one (1) succession.  The treasury was overflowing when Robert started his reign and the realm was in bankruptcy at the end.  

5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

But as a female Dany lacks necessary legitimacy. Or Westerosi do not accept female rulers. So if she somehow gains Iron Throne her rule would be challenged by rebellions, assassinations and passive resistance by nobility.

Oh she has legitimacy.  She is the Mother of Dragons, which is basically a goddess in Targaryen hierarchy.  There was no such thing as a khaleesi who leads her own khalasar until Daenerys Targaryen came along.  She won them over.  Westeros will come to her.  

[Loose Bolt]

2 hours ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Oh she has legitimacy.  She is the Mother of Dragons, which is basically a goddess in Targaryen hierarchy.  There was no such thing as a khaleesi who leads her own khalasar until Daenerys Targaryen came along.  She won them over.  Westeros will come to her.  

I am not sure about how valuable either title (MoD or khaleesi) are in Westeros. After all there would be many people who would think that both Dothraki and dragons are simply evil and very easily people would start calling Dany as Mother/Mistress of Demons.

Or I suspect that Dany will not gain easy access to power unless she somehow would find enough local supporters who would make her rise to power easier. For instance the Faith of 7 is now much stronger and much more politically active that it has been very long time and so anyone who would want to rule Westeros would have to find effective means to handle the Faith.

[Darth Sidious]

I am sure there will be challenges.  The issue of legitimacy and gender will not be insurmountable.  Not at all.  The people of Ghis have kept slaves for thousands of years and that did not stop Dany from liberating as many as she could.  It was the right thing to do.  And it will also be the right thing to do to fight gender bias in Westeros.

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

On 5/1/2020 at 1:44 AM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

They tried to dance with dragons and failed.  As Aegon V would later try to do. 

Or that

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

On 5/7/2020 at 7:48 PM, Big P said:

I fully concur.  Lion of the Night is the moon.  The wolves are the children of the night.  We do not yet know what the demons were but the wolves are creatures of the night. 

George may shock us with a big surprise and reveal what life forms exists on the other side of the 5 Forts.  Giant bats.  Werewolves with armor.  It can get interesting very soon when the book comes out.

[The Green Bard]

On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

azure

Azure means blue.  Tourmaline is blue (among other colors), is it not? 

Amethyst is clearly purple.  I mean, what is your source that amethyst is bluish purple?  Amethyst is purple, a simple google search yields no mention of blue.  the only link I found that even mentioned blue is this and it is a minimal reference to shade range., 

https://www.gemselect.com/english/gem-info/amethyst/amethyst-info.php

Edited May 12, 2020 by The Green Bard
accidentally hit post button finishing message

[The Lord of the Crossing]

On 4/8/2020 at 7:16 PM, Finley McLeod said:

Take note, the difference in candles or swords if you prefer.  Those candles could be related to the gemstone families from the old empire.  Westerosi nobles have their sigils and banners.  The families from the old empire distinguish themselves by color.  And it is easier to distinguish colors by using something familiar, like gemstones.  It's not at all remarkable.  The Targaryens were distinguished by colors during the dance, the blacks and the greens.  So to use an example, the milky looking sword of House Dayne could have been the property of the family of the Opal emperor. 

Many of these glass like swords exists.  And perhaps one sword to rule them all.  Swords instead of rings.  GM was paying tribute to Tolkien. 

[867-5309]

On 4/18/2020 at 11:47 PM, Loose Bolt said:

It is mentioned in the books that greensee'ers had either marry a tree or they die young. Or it is possible that Bran could never leave that cave now when his powers were activated by that "Jojen paste".

Bran will see what happened to his brothers after they failed to do their jobs.  He will have no excuse if he should choose to leave that cave. 

[BlackLightning]

I would love to see Dany go to Yi Ti or Asshai or both. But do even have time for such an excursion? Will she leave men behind specifically to defend the Far East.

On 4/8/2020 at 7:23 PM, Finley McLeod said:

I love the parallel roles of Daenerys and Bran.  Quaithe is basically telling Daenerys to go to the east and defend the lands.  She has thousands of newly released slaves in training to become soldiers.  How cool would it be to send them to the Five Forts and build up the defense.  Bran's job is to pick up where his brothers failed miserably and defend the north.  Quaithe and Brynden too are parallel. 

Makes sense.

I've come to believe that Quaithe is Shiera Seastar which would make her and Bloodraven half-siblings. Blood.