Daenerys is Azor Ahai Reborn

[divica]

3 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

To me, melting sounds a bit odd - I'd have expected eyes to sizzle and steam, maybe - I assume the oddness is to highlight the link. Works for me anyway.

But the eyes aren't 100% water so they couldn't just steam. There would always be a melting effect present. And at least to me melting eyes make more sense than steaming eyes. Anyway, the language makes sense to me. Maybe I am weird.

6 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

It's an assumption worth considering, because experts in both traditions think Dany is their hero.

I'm not really seeing the problem with the dragons. It's just another way of saying a team isn't it?

I have some doubts about what moqorro thinks, but we have had several examples of characters being completly wrong. Or changing their mind afterwards.

And I meant that maybe there will appear more dragons. That the dragon must have 3 heads may not mean much.

12 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

But here's the thing. Dany is a long way down her path - the bleeding star, the dragons from stone. Prophets swarm round her like bees at a honeypot. If Rhaego is a red herring, Dany would be a red whale, and there's no graceful way to dispose of a dead red whale.

Of course there is. In asoiaf you just have to send letters anouncing you have free food.

And danny thinking she is AA and then finding out she isn t would be completly in tone with her arc. Don't forget she thinks she is the last targ but everyone knows that isn't true. She probably isn't even the heir to the IT and when she gets to westeros the people will already be suporting a diferent targ (faegon).

[LynnS]

6 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Good reasoning, but on the other hand, none of the red priests we've seen so far are married. Marriage seems incompatible with their fanatical devotion (slave of R'hllor). Mel could sacrifice fifty husbands without feeling woe or sorrow, and if they were all red priests, they probably wouldn't care either.

LOL.  Mel isn't exactly compassionate.  But I'm only making a comparison to Mel as someone transformed by holy fire.   However, you could say she is a godswife or bride of fire.  Same with Dany.    I'm not sure that AA's marital status really matters when it comes to forging the sword.  Only that he made a sacrifice of his beloved which makes it a true sacrifice.  She apparently a willing participant, sacrificing herself 'for love'.

And we don't really know how long ago this event was supposed to have taken place.  But it does seem to have been during the first long night.  Mel seems to confirm that when Aemon questions her concerning the battle for the dawn.  So perhaps, this isn't the Red Religion in its current form, but the religion at its origins.

6 hours ago, Springwatch said:

This is where is gets tricky. AA quenched the hot blade in a cooler liquid (we know this because the earlier blades shattered). To recreate LB, you'd have to heat up the VS steel, and why would anyone do that?

The point is that valyrian swords already exist, so nobody has to go the the trial and error process that AA went through with two failed attempts.  Why would you have to heat up the VS sword again?  Plunging it into a heart bathed in holy fire, ie transformed by dragonfire should do the trick.  

 

[LynnS]

5 hours ago, divica said:

AA was some red priest or r'hllor follower that was leading the fight in that area against the others. However he didn't have valyrian steel and therefore his weapons shatered when facing the others.

I think the war was fought on several fronts not just in Westeros.  We don't know when the battle for the battle for the dawn took place.  Was it before the hammer of the waters?  Were there still land bridges spanning the Narrow Sea?  It seems the First Men had their own hero who's sword did break.  That doesn't mean AA is the same hero, but someone who is a hero to the Red Lot who also fought in the battle for the dawn.  His sword most certainly didn't break and he dispatched a beast that sounds a lot like a white walker.  But he didn't end the Long Night or dispatch the ancient enemy to which Mel refers.  Perhaps this is why she tells Jon that the Wall is her place as much as it is Jons.  

[divica]

1 minute ago, LynnS said:

I think the war was fought on several fronts not just in Westeros.  We don't know when the battle for the battle for the dawn took place.  Was it before the hammer of the waters?  Were there still land bridges spanning the Narrow Sea?  It seems the First Men had their own hero who's sword did break.  That doesn't mean AA is the same hero, but someone who is a hero to the Red Lot who also fought in the battle for the dawn.  His sword most certainly didn't break and he dispatched a beast that sounds a lot like a white walker.  But he didn't end the Long Night or dispatch the ancient enemy to which Mel refers.  Perhaps this is why she tells Jon that the Wall is her place as much as it is Jons. 

The part about several fronts I totally agree and that AA might only be the one that defeated the others in an area where people believed in r'hllor.

But think on this. Why would a red priest need a sword that emanates heat? And if the WW can be killed by steel (dragonsteel) why would anyone want to incorporate fire into a sword? And keep in mind that a fire sword would be of very limited use to couter the cold genereted by the others.

To me it only makes sense to put fire into a sword if AA is looking to create a weapon that can resist the cold from the WW weapons because all his weapons shatter when they touch.

[LynnS]

19 minutes ago, divica said:

To me it only makes sense to put fire into a sword if AA is looking to create a weapon that can resist the cold from the WW weapons because all his weapons shatter when they touch.

I'm guessing that Jons sword won't shatter in the cold and can still dispatch a WW without shattering.  This seems to be confirmed by Sams discoveries in the library at Castle Black. So why would you capture a soul of fire in a sword? To what purpose unless it can transform the soul of ice once and for all.  I think we get some hint of this from Jojen when he says that if ice can burn; then love and hate can mate. In this case when the soul of ice and the soul of fire are joined together in one person.  Perhaps someone with both fire and ice bloodlines.   

 

[El Guapo]

1 hour ago, divica said:

 

And danny thinking she is AA and then finding out she isn t would be completly in tone with her arc. Don't forget she thinks she is the last targ but everyone knows that isn't true. She probably isn't even the heir to the IT and when she gets to westeros the people will already be suporting a diferent targ (faegon).

Dany knows nothing about AA. In fact of all the contenders she is the only one who has never heard of the prophecy.

[Springwatch]

10 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm not sure that AA's marital status really matters when it comes to forging the sword.  Only that he made a sacrifice of his beloved which makes it a true sacrifice.  She apparently a willing participant, sacrificing herself 'for love'.

 

9 hours ago, LynnS said:

 So why would you capture a soul of fire in a sword? To what purpose unless it can transform the soul of ice once and for all.  I think we get some hint of this from Jojen when he says that if ice can burn; then love and hate can mate. In this case when the soul of ice and the soul of fire are joined together in one person.  Perhaps someone with both fire and ice bloodlines.  

A bit of a diversion, but this caught me by surprise. I suddenly realise I thought true love, especially true marital love, was more a northern thing. Like Ned Stark's marriage. The fire examples all seem like passionate desire, crazy romance, sex magic and holy prostitution. And like I said, the modern red priests don't seem capable of loving another human being. But there it is: AA loved his wife, in the most fundamental legend of R'hllor.

 

[LynnS]

4 hours ago, Springwatch said:

 

A bit of a diversion, but this caught me by surprise. I suddenly realise I thought true love, especially true marital love, was more a northern thing. Like Ned Stark's marriage. The fire examples all seem like passionate desire, crazy romance, sex magic and holy prostitution. And like I said, the modern red priests don't seem capable of loving another human being. But there it is: AA loved his wife, in the most fundamental legend of R'hllor.

 

I think this is true of what we have seen so far.  So I don't think Mel really qualifies as a Nissa Nissa type sacrifice.  But in the end Dany might.. especially since she has the undying prophecy of doing things for love.

Martin has said that the icy lot represent hate, darkness and death;  while the fiery lot represent the opposite, love light and life.  The icy lot hate all things with hot blood in their veins.  There is nothing hotter than the fiery blood of the red lot unless it's dragon's blood.

Mel says that fire is the cleanest form of death.  She's not really talking about her regular victims.  She's referring to the cleansing of the soul:

Quote

 

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

 

 This is the cleansing that I think has to happen to the soul of ice.  It's a cleansing of the soul to burn away all hatred and darkness.

This is reflected in the liturgy of the Red Lot.

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - The Sacrifice

Ser Corliss Penny stepped forward, clutching the torch with both hands. He swung it about his head in a circle, fanning the flames. One of the captives began to whimper.

"R'hllor," Ser Godry sang, "we give you now four evil men. With glad hearts and true, we give them to your cleansing fires, that the darkness in their souls might be burned away. Let their vile flesh be seared and blackened, that their spirits might rise free and pure to ascend into the light. Accept their blood, Oh lord, and melt the icy chains that bind your servants. Hear their pain, and grant strength to our swords that we might shed the blood of your enemies. Accept this sacrifice, and show us the way to Winterfell, that we might vanquish the unbelievers."

 

 Of course this isn't a spiritual cleansing on par with Dany's cleansing.

[divica]

15 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Dany knows nothing about AA. In fact of all the contenders she is the only one who has never heard of the prophecy.

But will learn pretty fast when red priests and their followers start arriving to where she is. 

[Roswell]

On 4/29/2021 at 5:49 PM, El Guapo said:

Dany knows nothing about AA. In fact of all the contenders she is the only one who has never heard of the prophecy.

That is one of the best parts of the story.  Daenerys doesn't know who she is, yet.  Soon she will learn about her family's past.  They were the ruling dynasty during the great empire of the dawn.  She is Azor Ahai.  

[TheLastWolf]

Making my periodic Please stop with irrational fanatic Godmother Queen ValyARYAN worship and racist north/Stark hatred post. Over and out.

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 hour ago, TheLastWolf said:

Making my periodic Please stop with irrational fanatic Godmother Queen ValyARYAN worship and racist north/Stark hatred post. Over and out.

Bow down before the one true god, Queen Daenerys  . Although I don't get the racist north/Stark hatred thing.....

[El Guapo]

4 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

Making my periodic Please stop with irrational fanatic Godmother Queen ValyARYAN worship and racist north/Stark hatred post. Over and out.

Then why are you posting on this thread which is done nothing of tehseort?

or are you just a troll?

[Jaenara Belarys]

He's not a troll, he's probably just seeing the Daenerys is Azor Ahai thing and thinking that it's a Dany worship thread. 

[Bowen Marsh]

The first post pretty much proved that Dany is Azor Ahai.  It has nothing to do with worshiping the character.  I do like Dany a lot and would have liked her even if she was not Azor Ahai. 

Just now, Jaenara Belarys said:

He's not a troll, he's probably just seeing the Daenerys is Azor Ahai thing and thinking that it's a Dany worship thread. 

 

[Jaenara Belarys]

Just now, Bowen Marsh said:

The first post pretty much proved that Dany is Azor Ahai.  It has nothing to do with worshiping the character.  I do like Dany a lot and would have liked her even if she was not Azor Ahai. 

 

Just my opinion on what he was thinking. No need to argue.

[El Guapo]

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

He's not a troll, he's probably just seeing the Daenerys is Azor Ahai thing and thinking that it's a Dany worship thread. 

No he is a troll. Any thread that mentions Dany is a "Dany worship" thread whatever the hell that is. 

[TheLastWolf]

8 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Then why are you posting on this thread which is done nothing of tehseort?

I'm too lazy to go embedding links of all the Godmother Queen devotees' posts in this thread here again. Certainly not for you. I have nothing to prove. Free world. 

[El Guapo]

12 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I'm too lazy to go embedding links of all the Godmother Queen devotees' posts in this thread here again. Certainly not for you. I have nothing to prove. Free world. 

Indeed you are. And lets be real here and post saying anything positive about Dany is according to you "a god mother queen" post (whatever the hell that is) .  in other words you are a troll.

[Jaenara Belarys]

12 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

I'm too lazy to go embedding links of all the Godmother Queen devotees' posts in this thread here again. Certainly not for you. I have nothing to prove. Free world. 

I have to agree with @El Guapo here, saying something good about Dany is not Dany worship.