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James Fenimore Cooper XXII

Glass Candles, Yi Ti, Azor Ahai, and Spring

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Posted (edited)

I pulled up an old topic from long ago.  I thought it worth the effort to widen the scope of this discussion. 

We started off talking about the "ghosts" in the hallway and their swords.  I want to bring in additional materials that may help in the discussion, for those who would care to talk about this old topic.

From Pate:

Quote

It was said that they had been brought to Oldtown from Valyria a thousand years before the Doom.  He had heard there were four; one was green and three were black, and all were tall and twisted.

There are at least four of these "candles."  Valyria is the accepted origin.

From Armen:

Quote

The night before an acolyte says his vows, he must stand vigil in the vault. No lantern is permitted him, no torch, no lamp,  no taper . . . only a candle of obsidian.  He must spend the night in the darkness, unless he can light that candle.  Some will try. The foolish and the stubborn, those who have made a study of these so-called higher mysteries.  Often they cut their fingers, for the ridges on the candles are said to be as sharp as razors.  Then, with bloody hands, they must wait upon the dawn, brooding on their failure.  Wiser men simply go to sleep, or spend their night in prayer, but every year there are always a few who must try.

It is sharp to remind us that knowledge can be dangerous.

Why would a candle have sharp edges?  Only weapons have sharp edges.  Knowledge can be dangerous but not as dangerous as ignorance.  I don't agree with this part of Armen's opinion.

From Leo:

Quote

I know what I saw.  The light was queer and bright, much brighter than any beeswax or tallow candle.  It cast strange shadows and the flame never flickered, not even when a draft blew through the open door behind me.

The source of light is obviously not a flame. 

From Armen:

Quote

Obsidian does not burn.

No it does not.  Marwyn thinks it's obsidian though. 

From Samwell:

Quote

The light came from a tall black candle in the middle of the room. The candle was unpleasantly bright.  There was something queer about it.  The flame did not flicker, even when Archmaester Marwyn closed the door so hard that papers blew off a nearby table.  The light did something strange to colors too.  Whites were bright as fresh-fallen snow, yellow shone like gold, reds turned to flame, but the shadows were so black they looked like holes in the world.  The candle itself was three feet tall and slender as a sword, ridged and twisted, glittering black.

So what kind of light makes whites look like that?  Something that has ultra-violet.  The perfect light to use against creatures who live at night.  They burn instead of getting a sun tan. 

From Will:

Quote

In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen.  No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade.  It was alive with the moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed to almost to vanish when seen edge-on.  There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghostlight that played around its edges, and somehow will knew it was sharper than any razor.

 

When the blades met, there was no ring of metal on metal; only a high, thin sound at the edge of hearing, like an animal screaming in pain.

So once again, we have swords that glow in the dark.  This one gives off blue light. 

From Ned:

Quote

The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

Arthur's sword glows in the dark?  It is described as glass-like.

From Daenerys:

Quote

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings.  In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade.  “Faster,” they cried, “faster, faster.”

We assumed in the first discussion that these men were not the Targaryen kings of Westeros.  The Targaryens do not name themselves or their reign in terms of gem stones.  These men were older, from a long time ago.  These men were Azor Ahai of his time.  Their clothes were ragged because they were living through the long night.  So why is Daenerys important to them?  I believe it is because she is Azor Ahai for this time.  She is the one who can "wake the dragon."  The dragon represents fire and light. 

From Quaithe:

Quote

Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen.  The glass candles are burning. 

It is my opinion that the death of Khal Drogo lit the candles.  Khal Drogo is Nissa Nissa. 

From The World of Ice & Fire:

Quote

In the annals of the Further East, it was the Blood Betrayal, as his usurpation is named, that ushered in the age of darkness called the Long Night.  Despairing of the evil that had been unleashed on earth, the Maiden-Made-of-Light turned her back upon the world, and the Lion of Night came forth in all his wroth to punish the wickedness of men.

So it is believed the Blood Betrayal caused the Long Night.  I'm doubtful, but let's continue.  It is obvious to me, Maiden-Made-of-Light is the Sun.  Lion of Night is the Moon.

From Old Nan:

Quote

Fear is for the long night, when the sun hid its face for years at a time, and little children are born and live and die all in darkness while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods.

This looks like a climate change to me.  Change the environment and it favors another species.  The definition of who is fittest can change.  Darkness and cold favor the white walkers.

From The World of Ice & Fire:

Quote

The Five Forts are very old, older than the Golden Empire itself; some claim they were raised by the Pearl Emperor during the morning of the Great Empire to keep the Lion of Night and his demons from the realms of men. 

This is clear evidence.  The threat existed long before the blood betrayal took place.  Why else would the effort to build and guard these fortresses be sensible.  The size of the defense is equal to the seriousness of the threat.  The blood betrayal did not create the threat.

From The World of Ice & Fire:

Quote

Yet the Great Empire of the Dawn was not reborn, for the restored world was a broken place where every tribe of men went its own way, fearful of all the others, and war and lust and murder endured, even to our present day.

Quote

Those who have visited Yi Ti as it is today tell us that the thousand gods and hundred princes yet remain … but there are three god-emperors, each claiming the right to don the gowns of cloth-of-gold, green pearls, and jade that tradition allows to the emperor alone. 

The "ghosts" must have failed.  They are hailed as heroes in the records but I think the climate changed on its own.  The long night ended but the empire remained broken.  I believe this is important, but more on this later.  Parts of the old ruling families still exists and rule fractions of what was the old empire. 

From The World of Ice & Fire:

Quote

Today Yin is once more the capital of Yi Ti.  There the seventeenth azure emperor Bu Gai sits in splendor in a palace larger than all of King’s Landing. 

Amethyst is a purple-blue color.  This guy, Bu Gai, must have descended from the Amethyst Empress (family) of old. 

From George Martin: (not an exact quote)

Quote

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

From Quaithe:

Quote

To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.

From Daenerys and Quaithe:

Quote

What is there is Asshai that I will not find in Qarth?

Truth

From The World of Ice & Fire:

Quote

Asshai is a large city.  Behind its enormous land walls is ground enough for Volantis, Qarth, and King's Landing to stand side by side and still have room for Oldtown. Yet the population of Asshai is no greater than that of a good-sized market town.

Quote

Some say that the city is built of black stone.  Some say as well that the stone of Asshai has a greasy, unpleasant feel to it, that it seems to drink the light, dimming tapers and torches and hearth fires alike.

Quote

Beyond the walls of Asshai little grows save ghost grass, whose glassy glowing stalks are inedible.  Such fish as swim in the river are blind and twisted, so deformed and hideous to look upon  that only fools and shadowbinders will eat of their flesh.

No people in their right mind would build with this stone in a place like this.  Unless it wasn't like this when it was built.  Asshai must have been normal in the past.  Something happened to corrupt the very stone of the city itself and contaminate the land around it.  Perhaps this is the after effects of the long night.

I know.  Whew that was long.  But I hope you will agree with me.  It is important for Daenerys Targaryen to learn this truth to avoid a repeat of what happened in this part of the world.  The Amethyst Empress was not an individual but a political faction and family branch.  The Red was also a political faction.  Much like the Tigers and the Elephants in the free cities today.  The blood betrayal caused a political and social divide.  The empire could no longer properly defend its borders because they were divided.  Daenerys assumed Asshai but Quaithe probably meant Yin.  Lightbringer's role is to restore and to rebuild after the end of the long night.  It is easier to accept Lightbringer being glass lanterns to light the world through the long night.  It may even be a weapon because it is sharp.  At least some enable communication.  I don't rule out that there is an actual sword called Lightbringer but an object with multiple uses, weapon, lantern, and telephone, is much more useful.  The Valyrians perhaps didn't know what it was and repurposed the glass objects into communication devices.  The phrase "to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow" mean the long night cannot be stopped nor avoided.  Daenerys will have to live through the darkness before she can again enjoy light and warmth.  Which is fitting because the last title will be A Dream of Spring.  Knowing this truth will help her prepare herself and her people to live through the long night and rebuild afterwards.  The last part is something the previous Azor Ahai was never able to do.

Edited by James Fenimore Cooper XXII

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Azor Ahai is an Eastern legend.  This AA was a leader of  people during the long night.  He was never in the west.  Mellisandre will fail in her mission to sell him to the north of Westeros.  I saw a movie called At Play in the Fields of the Lord.  It is about protestant christian missionaries attempting to bring Jesus to an isolated tribe in the Amazon.  A wiser man is the Catholic priest who said "Christ will never be accepted here. A pale man from a desert country where it never rains".  Totally different setting from the rainforest.  The tribe could never understand.  Will never understand.  I think it's the same case with Mellisandre and the followers of the Old Gods.  AA comes from a far away land with different realities.  A handful of other heroes will use those candles in westeros if they are really swords.  It won't be AA.  AA will face her battles in the east and will not arrive in westeros until after the end of winter.  

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11 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Lightbringer's role is to restore and to rebuild after the end of the long night.  It is easier to accept Lightbringer being glass lanterns to light the world through the long night.  It may even be a weapon because it is sharp.  At least some enable communication.  I don't rule out that there is an actual sword called Lightbringer but an object with multiple uses, weapon, lantern, and telephone, is much more useful. 

I suspect Lightbringer was contained in the dragonglass cache that Jon Snow discovered at the Fist. He gave dagger blades from the cache to his closest people: Lord Commander Jeor Mormont, Sam and Gren, iirc. And Sam got the broken horn. Maybe those blades will be walkie-talkie glass candles!

Of course I don't mean that literally. I do believe that Jeor Mormont and other past Lord Commanders "communicate" to Jon through the raven, though. And Gren may represent aspects of Jon just as Hot Pie and Lommy (and possibly Weasel and others) manifest aspects of Arya. So there is an unspoken communication among certain bonded characters and the sharing of the dragonglass cache symbolizes that. (Long story, but I think the sharing of the obsidian also represents an inoculation against a virus. But I know no one comes to this forum for more virus discussion!)

11 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen.  No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade.  It was alive with the moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed to almost to vanish when seen edge-on.  There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghostlight that played around its edges, and somehow will knew it was sharper than any razor.

The light on the blade is important. I'm trying to collect things that reflect or glow with the color orange. The dragonglass dagger in the cache is orange when Jon finds it. I suspect there is a color wheel symbolism to be worked out in ASOIAF, where some colors blend but others are complementary and simply cannot be mixed. Orange and blue would be complementary.

I've never done much to try to analyze the Gemstone Emperors and Yi Ti. I'm sure it would be worthwhile to try to figure out the hints GRRM has given us through that backstory. I bet it's also worth looking at the jeweled soldiers given to Dany by Xaro Xhoan Daxos, each one the size of a finger.

Quote

 

"Did I not give you an army, sweetest of women? A thousand knights, each in shining armor."

The armor had been made of silver and gold, the knights of jade and beryl and onyx and tourmaline, of amber and opal and amethyst, each as tall as her little finger. "A thousand lovely knights," she said, "but not the sort my enemies need fear. And my bullocks cannot carry me across the water, I—why are we stopping?" The oxen had slowed notably.

 

 

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The plea from Qaithe would delay the trip to Westeros at the very least.  It is a search for knowledge but also a chance to gain experience.  The Long Night will happen anyway.  It is for the best to wait until it's over before moving operations to Westeros.  Let the white walkers rid the land of the pesky lions and direwolves.  Spring will drive the white walkers back to where they came from.

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I see a gender reversal going on with the kings in the hallway and Daenerys.  Dragons are not bound by gender.  That may be the advantage for Daenerys. 

"He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi.  Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat.  A thousand thousand dragons poured forth and drank the fire of the sun.  That is why dragons breathe flame.  One day, the other moon will kiss the sun too, and it will crack and the dragons will return."  [Doreah]

"Moon is no egg.  Moon is god, woman wife of the sun." [Irri]

In this case, Khal Drogo was the one who got too close to Daenerys and got burned.  Fire consumes after all.  His death brought Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal.  Daenerys represent the Sun, the Maiden Made Of Light.  Khal Drogo was the Moon.  It is easy to see why Qaithe wants her to go to Asshai.  She can bring the sun back to that darkened city. 

 

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On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

It is my opinion that the death of Khal Drogo lit the candles.  Khal Drogo is Nissa Nissa. 

Yes

On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

It is obvious to me, Maiden-Made-of-Light is the Sun.  Lion of Night is the Moon.

Yes

On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

So once again, we have swords that glow in the dark.  This one gives off blue light. 

The white walkers have their own magic weapons too.  This one shatters iron.  

 

On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

The empire could no longer properly defend its borders because they were divided

Good point

13 hours ago, Seams said:

I suspect Lightbringer was contained in the dragonglass cache that Jon Snow discovered at the Fist. He gave dagger blades from the cache to his closest people: Lord Commander Jeor Mormont, Sam and Gren, iirc. And Sam got the broken horn. Maybe those blades will be walkie-talkie glass candles!

Of course I don't mean that literally. I do believe that Jeor Mormont and other past Lord Commanders "communicate" to Jon through the raven, though. And Gren may represent aspects of Jon just as Hot Pie and Lommy (and possibly Weasel and others) manifest aspects of Arya. So there is an unspoken communication among certain bonded characters and the sharing of the dragonglass cache symbolizes that. (Long story, but I think the sharing of the obsidian also represents an inoculation against a virus. But I know no one comes to this forum for more virus discussion!)

The light on the blade is important. I'm trying to collect things that reflect or glow with the color orange. The dragonglass dagger in the cache is orange when Jon finds it. I suspect there is a color wheel symbolism to be worked out in ASOIAF, where some colors blend but others are complementary and simply cannot be mixed. Orange and blue would be complementary.

I've never done much to try to analyze the Gemstone Emperors and Yi Ti. I'm sure it would be worthwhile to try to figure out the hints GRRM has given us through that backstory. I bet it's also worth looking at the jeweled soldiers given to Dany by Xaro Xhoan Daxos, each one the size of a finger.

 

I don't think Lightbringer is in Westeros and Jon is not Azor Ahai.  LB is a glass candle.  Its light may have special properties which simulate natural sunlight.

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On 4/5/2020 at 12:14 PM, Wm Portnoy said:

In this case, Khal Drogo was the one who got too close to Daenerys and got burned.  Fire consumes after all.  His death brought Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal.  Daenerys represent the Sun, the Maiden Made Of Light.  Khal Drogo was the Moon.  It is easy to see why Qaithe wants her to go to Asshai.  She can bring the sun back to that darkened city. 

Or learn from it in order to avoid the same thing from happening again.  Asshai is a potential place of refuge if the taint can be cleaned.  

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I don't know where to begin.  Those are a lot of very good conclusions.  I want at least a few chapters in Asshai.  I know GRRM already announced there won't be any.  But he also said he has the right to change his mind and I hope he has.  

Ghost Grass is like an invasive weed that kills competing vegetation.  We don't have a real world equivalent that glows but running bamboo is said to be able to out-compete other plants.  GRRM used the real world examples of blind cave fishes and bioluminescent animals .  Asshai have both glowing plants and fish that have no eyes.  They either came from the ocean depths or from a land where the sun doesn't shine.  The builders of the city would not choose this place.  Asshai was a promising location during its construction.  Something very bad happened here.  Something brought that grass to destroy the ecosystem.  

On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.

Shadow is the Long Night.  Dany will have to wait until the end of the Long Night before she can return to Westeros.  

On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Beyond the walls of Asshai little grows save ghost grass, whose glassy glowing stalks are inedible.  Such fish as swim in the river are blind and twisted, so deformed and hideous to look upon  that only fools and shadowbinders will eat of their flesh.

I don't know if these fishes are deformed.  They looked different from ordinary fish because they evolved in darkness.  Shadowbinders are not immune to poison, though Mel survived Cressen's drug.  The fish may look weird and their flesh may taste bad but probably not poisonous.  The GG, according to the Dothraki, kill other grasses.  So no cattle farming option.  Even goats need grass.  

On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

We assumed in the first discussion that these men were not the Targaryen kings of Westeros.  The Targaryens do not name themselves or their reign in terms of gem stones.  These men were older, from a long time ago.  These men were Azor Ahai of his time.  Their clothes were ragged because they were living through the long night.  So why is Daenerys important to them?  I believe it is because she is Azor Ahai for this time.  She is the one who can "wake the dragon."  The dragon represents fire and light. 

The slayer of lies.  She is Azor Ahai.  Stannis is not.  

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It seems as if Dawn might be glowing with the Spirits of the Damned.

Quote

"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.

Quote

Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end.

Which might also be related to why Glass Candles glow. 

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On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I pulled up an old topic from long ago.  I thought it worth the effort to widen the scope of this discussion. 

We started off talking about the "ghosts" in the hallway and their swords.  I want to bring in additional materials that may help in the discussion, for those who would care to talk about this old topic.

From Pate:

There are at least four of these "candles."  Valyria is the accepted origin.

From Armen:

Why would a candle have sharp edges?  Only weapons have sharp edges.  Knowledge can be dangerous but not as dangerous as ignorance.  I don't agree with this part of Armen's opinion.

From Leo:

The source of light is obviously not a flame. 

From Armen:

No it does not.  Marwyn thinks it's obsidian though. 

From Samwell:

So what kind of light makes whites look like that?  Something that has ultra-violet.  The perfect light to use against creatures who live at night.  They burn instead of getting a sun tan. 

From Will:

So once again, we have swords that glow in the dark.  This one gives off blue light. 

From Ned:

Arthur's sword glows in the dark?  It is described as glass-like.

From Daenerys:

We assumed in the first discussion that these men were not the Targaryen kings of Westeros.  The Targaryens do not name themselves or their reign in terms of gem stones.  These men were older, from a long time ago.  These men were Azor Ahai of his time.  Their clothes were ragged because they were living through the long night.  So why is Daenerys important to them?  I believe it is because she is Azor Ahai for this time.  She is the one who can "wake the dragon."  The dragon represents fire and light. 

From Quaithe:

It is my opinion that the death of Khal Drogo lit the candles.  Khal Drogo is Nissa Nissa. 

From The World of Ice & Fire:

So it is believed the Blood Betrayal caused the Long Night.  I'm doubtful, but let's continue.  It is obvious to me, Maiden-Made-of-Light is the Sun.  Lion of Night is the Moon.

From Old Nan:

This looks like a climate change to me.  Change the environment and it favors another species.  The definition of who is fittest can change.  Darkness and cold favor the white walkers.

From The World of Ice & Fire:

This is clear evidence.  The threat existed long before the blood betrayal took place.  Why else would the effort to build and guard these fortresses be sensible.  The size of the defense is equal to the seriousness of the threat.  The blood betrayal did not create the threat.

From The World of Ice & Fire:

The "ghosts" must have failed.  They are hailed as heroes in the records but I think the climate changed on its own.  The long night ended but the empire remained broken.  I believe this is important, but more on this later.  Parts of the old ruling families still exists and rule fractions of what was the old empire. 

From The World of Ice & Fire:

Amethyst is a purple-blue color.  This guy, Bu Gai, must have descended from the Amethyst Empress (family) of old. 

From George Martin: (not an exact quote)

From Quaithe:

From Daenerys and Quaithe:

From The World of Ice & Fire:

No people in their right mind would build with this stone in a place like this.  Unless it wasn't like this when it was built.  Asshai must have been normal in the past.  Something happened to corrupt the very stone of the city itself and contaminate the land around it.  Perhaps this is the after effects of the long night.

I know.  Whew that was long.  But I hope you will agree with me.  It is important for Daenerys Targaryen to learn this truth to avoid a repeat of what happened in this part of the world.  The Amethyst Empress was not an individual but a political faction and family branch.  The Red was also a political faction.  Much like the Tigers and the Elephants in the free cities today.  The blood betrayal caused a political and social divide.  The empire could no longer properly defend its borders because they were divided.  Daenerys assumed Asshai but Quaithe probably meant Yin.  Lightbringer's role is to restore and to rebuild after the end of the long night.  It is easier to accept Lightbringer being glass lanterns to light the world through the long night.  It may even be a weapon because it is sharp.  At least some enable communication.  I don't rule out that there is an actual sword called Lightbringer but an object with multiple uses, weapon, lantern, and telephone, is much more useful.  The Valyrians perhaps didn't know what it was and repurposed the glass objects into communication devices.  The phrase "to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow" mean the long night cannot be stopped nor avoided.  Daenerys will have to live through the darkness before she can again enjoy light and warmth.  Which is fitting because the last title will be A Dream of Spring.  Knowing this truth will help her prepare herself and her people to live through the long night and rebuild afterwards.  The last part is something the previous Azor Ahai was never able to do.

Nicely written. 

3 hours ago, Narsil4 said:

It seems as if Dawn might be glowing with the Spirits of the Damned.

Which might also be related to why Glass Candles glow. 

Are you saying Dawn might be the opposite of Lightbringer?  I think the light is just pale because it's artificial.  Like fluorescent.  It doesn't have the yellow of fire.  Wax candles and fire produce yellow light.  Ghost grass is pale because it doesn't use photosynthesis.  I'm not disagreeing.  You could be right.  Pale worms, pale roots.  Just like the creatures in Martin's other stories are usually bad news. 

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5 minutes ago, U. B. Cool said:

Are you saying Dawn might be the opposite of Lightbringer?

I suspect that Dawn becomes Lightbringer after an appropriate sacrifice. 

Quote

her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel.

Oathkeeper & Widow's Wail might represent the broken darkness and be in opposition to Dawn. 

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Take note, the difference in candles or swords if you prefer.  Those candles could be related to the gemstone families from the old empire.  Westerosi nobles have their sigils and banners.  The families from the old empire distinguish themselves by color.  And it is easier to distinguish colors by using something familiar, like gemstones.  It's not at all remarkable.  The Targaryens were distinguished by colors during the dance, the blacks and the greens.  So to use an example, the milky looking sword of House Dayne could have been the property of the family of the Opal emperor. 

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I love the parallel roles of Daenerys and Bran.  Quaithe is basically telling Daenerys to go to the east and defend the lands.  She has thousands of newly released slaves in training to become soldiers.  How cool would it be to send them to the Five Forts and build up the defense.  Bran's job is to pick up where his brothers failed miserably and defend the north.  Quaithe and Brynden too are parallel. 

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On 4/5/2020 at 10:32 AM, Seams said:

I suspect Lightbringer was contained in the dragonglass cache that Jon Snow discovered at the Fist. He gave dagger blades from the cache to his closest people: Lord Commander Jeor Mormont, Sam and Gren, iirc. And Sam got the broken horn. Maybe those blades will be walkie-talkie glass candles!

Of course I don't mean that literally. I do believe that Jeor Mormont and other past Lord Commanders "communicate" to Jon through the raven, though. And Gren may represent aspects of Jon just as Hot Pie and Lommy (and possibly Weasel and others) manifest aspects of Arya. So there is an unspoken communication among certain bonded characters and the sharing of the dragonglass cache symbolizes that. (Long story, but I think the sharing of the obsidian also represents an inoculation against a virus. But I know no one comes to this forum for more virus discussion!)

The light on the blade is important. I'm trying to collect things that reflect or glow with the color orange. The dragonglass dagger in the cache is orange when Jon finds it. I suspect there is a color wheel symbolism to be worked out in ASOIAF, where some colors blend but others are complementary and simply cannot be mixed. Orange and blue would be complementary.

I've never done much to try to analyze the Gemstone Emperors and Yi Ti. I'm sure it would be worthwhile to try to figure out the hints GRRM has given us through that backstory. I bet it's also worth looking at the jeweled soldiers given to Dany by Xaro Xhoan Daxos, each one the size of a finger.

 

Indeed. Qarth gave knowledge to Daenerys through the Undying Ones.  Perhaps those pieces are clues to something of import.

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On 4/5/2020 at 2:03 AM, Bowen Marsh said:

Azor Ahai is an Eastern legend.  This AA was a leader of  people during the long night.  He was never in the west.  Mellisandre will fail in her mission to sell him to the north of Westeros.  I saw a movie called At Play in the Fields of the Lord.  It is about protestant christian missionaries attempting to bring Jesus to an isolated tribe in the Amazon.  A wiser man is the Catholic priest who said "Christ will never be accepted here. A pale man from a desert country where it never rains".  Totally different setting from the rainforest.  The tribe could never understand.  Will never understand.  I think it's the same case with Mellisandre and the followers of the Old Gods.  AA comes from a far away land with different realities.  A handful of other heroes will use those candles in westeros if they are really swords.  It won't be AA.  AA will face her battles in the east and will not arrive in westeros until after the end of winter.  

The conflict over religion is one more way the author mimic the real world.  Religion divides people.  It is this division which prevent the humans from effectively dealing with a potential threat to survival.  I don't think George has the answers.  Religions do serve their purpose in comforting the people but it also creates a problem when different beliefs come into contact.  That is exactly what is happening with Mel and the followers of the Old Gods.  It was not long after they crossed the wall and the free folk are already carving faces on trees.  I see conflict coming up.

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On 4/7/2020 at 7:56 PM, Narsil4 said:

I suspect that Dawn becomes Lightbringer after an appropriate sacrifice. 

Oathkeeper & Widow's Wail might represent the broken darkness and be in opposition to Dawn. 

I too believe Dawn has great significance even if it is not Lightbringer.  House Dayne has an important role to play and one of the family could end up being a savior of Westeros.  One of many saviors.  The main idea is the requirement of many great sacrifices to save humanity.  Azor Ahai will not be the only person to sacrifice a loved one in order to do what needs to get done.  Head of the house Edric may have to sacrifice a future girlfriend.  Which I hope will be Arya Stark.  If not, and Jon Snow comes back to life, it is my hope that he has to sacrifice Arya, the person he loves the most.  Or vice-versa, Arya has to stab Jon in the heart.  

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On 4/5/2020 at 12:14 PM, Wm Portnoy said:

I see a gender reversal going on with the kings in the hallway and Daenerys.  Dragons are not bound by gender.  That may be the advantage for Daenerys. 

"He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi.  Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat.  A thousand thousand dragons poured forth and drank the fire of the sun.  That is why dragons breathe flame.  One day, the other moon will kiss the sun too, and it will crack and the dragons will return."  [Doreah]

"Moon is no egg.  Moon is god, woman wife of the sun." [Irri]

In this case, Khal Drogo was the one who got too close to Daenerys and got burned.  Fire consumes after all.  His death brought Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal.  Daenerys represent the Sun, the Maiden Made Of Light.  Khal Drogo was the Moon.  It is easy to see why Qaithe wants her to go to Asshai.  She can bring the sun back to that darkened city. 

 

It is a very nice way to repeat history with some modifications.  The man is the moon this time around and he danced with the sun and got burned for his troubles.  Then came the three dragons.  

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On 4/5/2020 at 11:31 AM, Wm Portnoy said:

The plea from Qaithe would delay the trip to Westeros at the very least.  It is a search for knowledge but also a chance to gain experience.  The Long Night will happen anyway.  It is for the best to wait until it's over before moving operations to Westeros.  Let the white walkers rid the land of the pesky lions and direwolves.  Spring will drive the white walkers back to where they came from.

I very much look forward to learn what type of threat is on the other side of those fortresses.  I expect Essos to have its own version of the White Walkers.   

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